Theos-Talk Archives (March 1999 Message tt00193)

Hi Jerry et al,

> Just some thoughts. Thanks for the quote; I now see
> where you were coming from.
>
> Jerry S.

Your welcome, Jerry.  They were in my original post as well but you must
have missed them.

Jerry writes:
> The word "reached" is tricky here, because we already
> are spiritual, and already have atman and buddhi, and so
> "reaching" can be equated to becoming aware of what is
> already there. This is in agreement with the teaching that
> a Buddha is simply a human being who is fully aware (or
> awake).
>
> From yet another angle, we can't get there by karma,
> (i.e., by any single action) but rather by dropping or
> eliminating or consuming our karma.

Yes, indeed, it is just this sense of 'tricky' and paradox that I find
myself reflecting on.  We already 'have' Atma and Buddhi, as you rightly
say.

Yet HPB states, neither Atma nor Buddhi are of any more use to man than
sunlight is to a piece of granite buried in the earth, *unless* they are
relfected in some form of consciousness (ie Manas).  So it seems it is the
development of Manas that contains *the key* to becoming 'fully aware' or
'awakened'  - as we sometimes refer to the Buddha's enlightenment.  This
fits in with my sense that "getting there" isn't just about..
 a) already 'being there', or
 b) about droppng or eliminating Karma.
Yet both of these seem highly relevant as you point out.

These are just some reflections that I'm sharing with the group.  I don't
have any answers.

Some of the other reflections / questions that go along with this for me
are...

Karma is the Law that redresses cause and effect.

"The real Mahatma is then not his physical body but that higher Manas which
is inseperably linked to the Atma and its vehicle (the 6th principle)"
(from the Collected Writings v6 "Mahatmas and Chelas".)

When working as an Adept, does a Mahatma generate Karma?
Or is it that by working *with* Karma at the 'highest level' (Atma-Buddhi) -
that His actions are 'Karma-less'?...., because paradoxically 'Karma in
action'?

I may be wrong but I think there is something here as to understanding the
notion that Nirvana (Atma-Buddhi) are not reached by Karma?

>From the Mahatma Letters No 16:

"...you can do nothing better than to study the two doctrines -- of Karma
and Nirvana -- as profoundly as you can. Unless you are thoroughly well
acquainted with the two tenets -- the double key to the metaphysics of
Abidharma -- you will always find yourself at sea in trying to comprehend
the rest. We have several sorts of Karma and Nirvana in their various
applications -- to the Universe, the world, Devas, Buddhas, Bodhisatwas, men
and animals -- the second including its seven kingdoms. "

Are there other ways, than the usual, that we need to be thinking about
Karma and 'action' at these levels of consciousness?

Best wishes

Peter


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