Theos-Talk Archives (August 1998 Message tt00229)

Caldwell/Graye wrote:
>
> Bjorn Roxendal wrote:
>
> > Yes, and each person will have his own experience and thus "proof" unto himself,
> > either way. As for me, I first heard some dictations given through ECP in 1976,
> > in Sweden. I didn't know anything about ECP or her organization at the time, and
> > I didn't even understand English well enough to follow what was being said on
> > the tape! I woud say that I was not biased in any direction as far as the
> > authentiticity of this phenomenon. My experience was undeniable, however. Upon
> > listening to one of these dications I was quickly drawn up in an "alternative
> > state of consciousness". Prior to this I had had tangible and intense experience
> > of higher states through medition, which was my frame of reference at the time.
> > I found that the sphere of awareness I entered into through the dictations
> > outdid my meditation experiences by many light years. That's what convinced me.
>
> Bjorn, please consider the following:

> Is it possible that your "alternative state of consciousness" had
> nothing to do with the validity/nonvalidity of EC Prophet's "dictation"?

I have to answer "no" to that. I had plenty of previous experience of expanded
states of consciousness, but the "manifestation" that accompanied the dictations
was different and transcended those experiences. It was also repeatable and
hardly a product of expectations, since I didn't know what to expect, if
anything.

> Or is it even possible that your experience was somehow "deceptive".

Yes. In the name of humility and acceptance of my own fallability I must admit
that this is entirely possible. I have had many strong spiritual experiences and
those I have had in conjunction with ECP's dictations have the most convincing
quality of "reality" of them all. There have often been an infusing of
light/energy/consciousness in my being, even quite physically, that no other
practices or experiences have parallelled.  But still, all of this may be
deceptive in the sense that there could be higher experiences and more direct
mnifestations of spiritual "truth" and "light" etc. available. So I keep my eyes
open to see if anything "better" crosses my path.

> Or take another example.  Your own EC Prophet channeled "Kuthumi"
> concerning Alice Bailey:

> " Thus I
> expose to you the false teachings subtly woven into the work of Alice
> Bailey, whose failure to surrender totally rendered her unfit as an
> instrument of the Tibetan Master.”

> Now if we ASSUME this is really "Kuthumi" giving the messsage to Ms.
> Prophet, and further assume that what is said about Alice Bailey is
> "gospel truth", how do we explain the experiences of many serious,
> longtime Bailey students who have ALSO had profound spiritual and
> mystical experiences?  Some have told me that it was their involvement
> with a true messenger (Bailey) and the genuine writings of DK/Bailey,
> etc. which caused their profound experiences.  How is this possible if
> what "Kuthumi" (via Prophet) says is really true?  Are their "spiritual
> experiences" deceptive while yours is not?

They may or may not be. It is not for me to tell. I certainly believe that there
is enough "truth" in A Bailey's teachings for a sincere student to be able to
make contact with the aura and spiritual presene of the master through them. And
my guess is that Kuthumi agrees.

> If your spiritual experiences
> validate Prophet's claims why can't the Bailey students' spiritual
> experiences also be proof of the validity of Bailey's claims?

My spiritual experiences are not enough to validate ECP's claims, but they are
what I have. As Eldon was inferring (I think), as long as this is the most
convincing experience I have of a spiritual nature, you can't expect me to deny
it. But, one point should be made, the undeniable experience of spiritual power,
light, consciousness, transformation, etc that I have in connections with the
ECP activity, does NOT validate all of ECP's claims. I think she makes mistakes
of judgment, perception, interpretation etc, like the rest of us. I can not
accept everything she says on the ground that I believe that she is conveying
spiritual "reality".

> I'm not trying to diss your "inner experiences" but the above examples
> could be multiplied by the scores.  If we truly seek truth (which might
> be uncomfortable to our present beliefs), then shouldn't we ask such
> difficult questions and look for the true answers even if the truth
> might be other than what we desire?

Certainly. I am not, and am not going to be, a mindless follower. On the
contrary, I prefer some detachment and independent thinking. The funny thing is,
IMO, that in these theosophical circles people like me are often considered as
being less endowed with faculties of spiritual sanity than the rest of you. This
both amuses and saddens me.


Bjorn