Theos-Talk Archives (August 1998 Message tt00239)

Nicholas:

>>  No, not every celibate monk or
>>nun is an arhat, bodhisattva or sage -- but no arhat, bodhisattva or sage
>>can reach that stage without celibacy.  Which by the way, means much more
>>than abstaining from copulation.

Jerry S:

>    There
>have been countless Tibetan bodisattvas, for example, who practice
>karmamudra--meditation while in sexual union with a partner. One
>of the greatest Adepts of all time was Ramakrisna, and he was
>married.

Whether there have been countless Tibetan bodisattvas practising karmamudra
or not, the opinion of the Dalai Lama as spiritual leader of Tibet, should
have some weight.

"Advice from the Dalai Lama," in Inquiring Mind, vol.10, no.1:

"Truthfully, you can only do such practice if there is no sexual desire
whatsoever. The kind of realization that is required is like this: If
someone gives you a goblet of wine and a glass of urine, or a plate of
wonderful food and a piece of excrement, you must be in such a state that
you can eat and drink from all four and it makes no difference to you what
they are. Then may be you can do this practice."

When asked to name any lamas who he thought were at this level, he admitted
that he could not. He mentioned that there are well-known stories of great
teachers like Tilopa who had transcended all attachment to conventional
thinking and so were able to engage in sexual practices without harming
themselves or their students, but he added that such exceptional individuals
are very rare.

As to Ramakrishna, if we use the term celibacy in the sense of  *abstinence
from sexual intercourse*  then he was a celibate. His marriage was arranged
by his mother when the bribe was only five  years old. They never lived the
usual life of husband and wife. Only after he got his realization for some
time and Sarada Devi was then eighteen years old that she came to live with
him as a spiritual companion.

By his marriage Ramakrishna admitted the great value of marriage in man's
spiritual evolution, and by adhering to his monastic vows he demonstrated
the imperative necessity of self-control, purity, and continence for
realization of truth.

Visanu