Theos-Talk Archives (May 2011 Message tt00148)

Dear Joaquim,

It looks like we're running in circles now, each referring to documents and posts we already referred to earlier.

To bust out of that circle, let me just state as best as possible what I have found so far to be a reasonable evaluation of Pelletier's The Judge Case and the Call for Action initiatve, which is partially based on that study.

1) Caldwell, Forray and now myself (after reading the Pelletier chapter on HPB's wills) come to the conclusion that the Pelletier study is deeply flawed, because it is too speculative and partisan. 

2) Pelletier's response to his critics Hesselink, Caldwell and Forray is not adequate as it does not adress Forray's crucial observation that Pelletier's study is patterned after the study The Theosophical Movement 1875-1925 (and its update), which is regarded by both Forray and Nethercott as biased. 

3) Because Aveline's Call for Action is based on the assumed objectivity of The Judge Case and The Theosophical Movement 1875-1925 (and its update), this initiative is as flawed as its sources and should be recast in more objective and non-partisan language.

I think the problem in the Judge issue so far is that most in-house historians of the Theosophical Movement are not properly trained to keep their metaphysical convictions at bay while doing research. This will mostly lead to confirmation bias, speculative constructs and unfounded conclusions. Better to keep one's research within the realm of the provable, however frustratingly little that might be, and declare one's metaphysical conviction as conviction. 

Best

Govert





  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: jdmsoares 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:08 PM
  Subject: theos-talk Understanding the Theosophical Movement


    

  Dear Govert, friends,

  Thanks.

  Pelletier's response to Mr.Forray and Daniel can be found here:

  http://www.theosophycanada.com/fohat_AddressCriticsTJC.htm
  <http://www.theosophycanada.com/fohat_AddressCriticsTJC.htm>

  He points out that,

  "Forray claims that not enough information was presented in TJC
  about Besant's life before entering Theosophy. I wish to draw attention
  to my article published in Fohat which dealt with this very subject.
  References to it are provided, as they are too many other items which
  were not specifically included in the text of TJC. Numerous books about
  Besant are also readily available; it was therefore deemed unnecessary
  to repeat it in this context."

  Let's hope more students can read "The Judge Case" by Ernest
  Pelletier, so they can proceed with their own investigation of truth.

  Besides this, we can also see the importance of the "Justice to
  Judge" initiative, so that Adyar opens the archives to independent
  investigators.

  For those who wish to understand more about the evolution of the
  theosophical movement, you can read:

  An Open Letter to Annie Besant

  How in 1909 William Kingsland

  Denounced Annie Besant's Farce

  The direct link is
  http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2010/09/open-letter-to-annie-besant.h\
  tml
  <http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2010/09/open-letter-to-annie-besant.\
  html>

  Best regards, Joaquim

  --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Govert Schuller" <schuller@...>
  wrote:
  >
  > Dear Joaquim,
  >
  > Thanks for sharing that chapter from the "Judge Case" on the wills of
  HPB.
  >
  > After reading it a few times I have to conclude that Daniel Caldwell's
  and Brett Forray's conclusions about the book "The Judge Case" are at
  least valid and applicable to this chapter on HPB's wills.
  >
  > Daniel concluded:
  >
  > "As I have read and carefully studied the narratives written by
  Pelletier in this book I have come to the conclusion that Pelletier
  employs (as much as Paul Johnson ever did) speculative possibilities
  with little or no documentation whatsoever."
  >
  > As one progresses trough the chapter the insertions of one
  'speculative possibility' after another become quite disconcerting.
  >
  > Mr. Forray observed that Pelletier's rendering of the story is heavily
  skewered in favor of Judge, the protagonist who he wants to exonerate,
  and that he excludes other points of view. Many others, in this case
  Besant and Olcott, are depicted as immoral schemers.
  >
  > It looks like that The Judge Case reads more like a piece of advocacy
  than non-partisan historical research.
  >
  > Best
  >
  > Govert
  >
  > Sources:
  > The JUDGE CASE by Ernest E. Pelletier in 5 Parts. Reviewed by Daniel
  H. Caldwell
  >
  > http://blavatskyarchives.com/pelletier_judge_case.htm
  >
  > Brett Forray's review of Pelletier's "The Judge Case" on the
  Theosophical History website.
  >
  > http://www.theohistory.org/Judge_Case_Review-XI-2.pdf
  >
  > Pelletier's response can be found here:
  >
  > http://www.theosophycanada.com/fohat_AddressCriticsTJC.htm
  >
  > My evaluation of that response is here:
  >
  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/56122
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: jdmsoares
  > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  > Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 4:27 AM
  > Subject: Re: theos-talk Interview With Ernest Pelletier
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > Dear friends,
  >
  > While we don't have "The Judge Case" accessible online for
  > everyone, we have published a chapter of the work of Ernest
  Pellitier.
  >
  > The chapter is entitled "The Wills of Helena P. Blavatsky".
  >
  > Here is an excerpt:
  >
  > 00000000000000000000000
  >
  > Shortly after reviewing The Secret Doctrine Annie Besant joined the
  > Theosophical Society on March 10th, 1889. Besant had made a name for
  > herself as one of England's finest orators and her abilities were
  needed
  > by the growing Society. Besant showed great promise as a student of
  > Theosophy and was soon sitting at H.P.B.'s side acknowledging her as
  > her new guru. She was quickly brought in as a pledged member of the
  > Esoteric Section. Just one month before her death H.P.B. appointed
  > Besant (April 1st, 1891) as the Chief Secretary of the Inner Group
  of
  > the Esoteric Section and Recorder of the Teachings,[1] and arranged
  for
  > her to go to America to meet William Q. Judge and deliver
  Blavatsky's
  > message to the American Convention held April 26th - 27th, 1891, as
  her
  > special delegate. At the time Besant accepted that Judge was an
  > Occultist, a view she later discounted. On May 8th Blavatsky died in
  > London while Besant was on her way back from America.
  >
  > Besant had sailed for England on May 6th and, upon receiving word of
  > Blavatsky's death, Judge followed on May 13th, 1891. Olcott would
  not
  > sail from India until June 15th. Evidentiary facts have been
  gathered
  > and are presented here for consideration regarding that period
  between
  > Blavatsky's death on May 8th and the time of Judge's arrival in
  London
  > on May 21st, 1891.
  >
  > Blavatsky executed her first Will before she left India in early
  1885.
  > According to Olcott she drew up a Will on January 31st, 1885. Olcott
  > stated:
  >
  > "The witnesses were P. Sreenivasa Row, E.H. Morgan, T. Subba Rao,
  > and C. Ramiah. It contains a clause to the effect that she wishes
  her
  > ashes to be buried within the compound of the Headquarters at Adyar;
  and
  > another request that annually, on the anniversary of her death, some
  of
  > her friends should assemble here and read a chapter of the Light of
  Asia
  > and one of Bhagavad Gîtâ." [2]
  >
  > This is the Will and Testament which is being kept at Adyar to this
  day,
  > and considered Blavatsky's official Will. But it was not the Last
  > Will and Testament she executed.
  >
  > (.)
  >
  > 000000000000000000000000
  >
  > The complete chapter can be read at
  > 
  http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2010/02/wills-of-helena-p-blavatsky.h\
  \
  > tml
  > 
  <http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2010/02/wills-of-helena-p-blavatsky.\
  \
  > html> .
  >
  > Best regards, Joaquim
  >
  > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR mkr777@ wrote:
  > >
  > > I just visited the interview with Pelletier, many have heard of
  his
  > > voluminous work 'The Judge Case.' Not only is it very voluminous
  and
  > > contains a lot of material, it is also pricey. Thus very few have
  seen
  > the
  > > book and not many average theosophists can afford to buy it. The
  net
  > result
  > > is the very purpose of publication is defeated. Most theosophists
  do
  > want to
  > > read first hand material and come to their own conclusions. We are
  yet
  > to
  > > see a digital copy of the book which will make it easily
  accessible to
  > > members world-wide almost instantaneously.
  > >
  > > It looks like the decision makers who who come up with pricing of
  > > theosophical publications seem to be totally blind to the need to
  make
  > > theosophical material easily accessible to middle class
  theosophists
  > most of
  > > whom work full time and live on a month to month budget and cannot
  > afford
  > > pricey books.
  > >
  > > Other leaders and authors in theosophical circles also are not
  > sensitive to
  > > the price issue. This may be because most of them may have
  received a
  > > complimentary copy or may be the books are paid for by the
  > organizations
  > > they are part of.
  > >
  > > Until the publications are converted to electronic format and made
  > available
  > > for free or for a $1, we cannot expect a good circulation.
  > >
  > > Let us all pray that those in charge of deciding on the pricing,
  soon
  > wake
  > > up to reality of the Internet world and digital publication.
  > >
  > > MKR
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 7:00 PM, theos-talk-owner@yahoogroups.com
  > wrote:
  > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > (note prior message was truncated. now checking on group's
  > > > settings...weird) admin
  > > > ===================================
  > > > Dear friends,
  > > >
  > > > We can see that the world scenario of the theosophical movement
  is
  > > > slowly changing.
  > > >
  > > > Old lies are being debunked, step by step. Some masks are
  falling.
  > The
  > > > defense of truth is gaining strength. The true history of the
  > movement
  > > > starts to being known by an increasing number of students.
  > > >
  > > > Many have contributed so far to the revitalization process of
  the
  > > > movement as a whole. One of those devoted students is Ernest
  > Pelletier,
  > > > author of the important book "The Judge Case".
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > We have just published in our websites a recent interview with
  this
  > > > lifelong worker for the Cause.
  > > >
  > > > The text is entitled:
  > > >
  > > > Ernest Pelletier´s Viewpoint
  > > >
  > > > A 2011 Dialogue On the Karma and
  > > >
  > > > Dharma of the Theosophical Movement
  > > >
  > > > The direct links are:
  > > >
  www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2011/05/ernest-pelletiers-viewpoint.html
  > and
  > > > www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=237
  > > >
  > > > Best regards, Joaquim
  > > >
  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > > >
  > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "jdmsoares" jdmsoares@ wrote:
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > > We have just published in our websites a recent interview with
  > this
  > > > > lifelong worker for the Cause.
  > > > >
  > > > > The text is entitled:
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > > Ernest Pelletier´s Viewpoint
  > > > >
  > > > > A 2011 Dialogue On the Karma and
  > > > >
  > > > > Dharma of the Theosophical Movement
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > > The direct links are:
  > > > >
  > www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2011/05/ernest-pelletiers-viewpoint.html
  and
  > > > www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=237
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > > Best regards, Joaquim
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > >
  > >
  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > >
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >

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