Theos-Talk Archives (May 2011 Message tt00147)

Morten, 
Thanks for your views and post, I have saved the PDF file you gave to my Buddhist folder, it is quite a nice read. I also recommend the works of Charles Luk "Ch'an and Zen Teachings" Charles Luk contributes very good understanding from the standpoint of the "now" . I also agree with the Swans who came to America due to the Tibet invasion of China that you cite. What originates the endless debate about space and matter? The Primary or the Secondary? What is consciousness origin? What is intrinsic primordial nature of space? In what does all our moment to moment reality have habitation? Are we in or out of the Primary when we perceive the Secondary world ? What is Senior and what is Secondary? 

BTW, Nalanda was very famous Buddhist University with quite a great reputation for it's challenge debates and competitions, I can be Googled and Google Earthed also. The disagreeing contentious conditioned mind is only the expedient means of "veiling" the Primary so Lila may proceed, is my personal attitude. 

Here is one link for Charles Luk books: 

>>>http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?tn=Ch%27an+Zen+teaching<<< 


regards, 
John 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "M. Sufilight" <global-theosophy@IEIWdVdv-PJJQtBaTE4iv2F9A9FAG9mlzlI2YlWAwhdb69O3e-5cv8D0wCkGBCFk1W4M_kPiJFGNO-jadgm7hTqgktY.yahoo.invalid> 
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 9:30:03 AM 
Subject: Re: theos-talk The Mahatmas on "a calm, even contemplative state of mind" 






Dear John 

My views are: 

Yes. 
The following has to do with this to a certain degree... 

Master K.H. on Concentration 
and Union with the Higher Self 
[Collated, abridged and edited by Daniel H. Caldwell 
from several variant copies of Master K.H.'s comments.] 
http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/khconcentration.htm 

There are of course also the Gelugps teachings given by the Prasangika or Prasanga on meditation and other esoteric teachings, or teachings claimed to be esoteric. 

A FEW MORE MISCONCEPTIONS CORRECTED (by H. P. Blavatsky) 
"The Prasanga school obtained its name from the peculiar mode which it adopted of deducing the absurdity and erroneousness of every esoteric opinion. * 

Correct interpretations of Buddhist Philosophy are crowned by that gloss on a thesis from the Prasanga School, that 

Even an Arhat goes to hell in case he doubt anything,â 

thus making of the most free-thinking religion in the world a blind-faith system. The âthreatâ refers simply to the well-known law that even an Initiate may fail, and thus have his object utterly ruined, if he doubt for one moment the efficacy of his psychic powersâthe alphabet of Occultism, as every Kabalist well knows. 
The Tibetan sect of the Ngo-vo-nyid-med par Mraba (âthey who deny existence,â or âregard nature as MÃyÃâ)â can never be contrasted for one moment with some of the nihilistic or materialistic schools of India, such as the ChÃrvÃka. They are pure VedÃntinsâif anythingâin their views. And if the Yoga-charyÃs may be compared with, or called the Tibetan ViÅishËadvaitÃs, the Prasanga School is surely the Advaita Philosophy of the land. It was divided into two: one was originally founded by BhÃvaviveka, the SvÃtantrika MÃdhyamika School, and the other by BuddhapÃlita; both have their exoteric and esoteric divisions. It is necessary to belong to the latter to know anything of the esoteric doctrines of that sect, the most metaphysical and philosophical of all. Chandrakirti (Dava Dagpa) wrote his commentaries on the Prasanga doctrines and taught publicly; and he expressly states that there are two ways of entering the âPathâ to NirvÃna. Any virtuous man can reach by Naljor-ngonsum (âmeditation by self-perceptionâ), the intuitive comprehension of the four Truths, without either âââââ 
* Ibid. 
â Buddhism in Tibet, p. 44. 
â They maintain also the existence of One Absolute pure Nature, Parabrahman; the illusion of everything outside of it; the leading of the individual Soulâa Ray of the âUniversalââinto the true nature of existence and things by Yoga alone. 
âââââ 

Page 439 

belonging to a monastic order or having been initiated. In this case it was considered as a heresy to maintain that the visions which may arise in consequence of such meditation, or VijÃÃna (internal knowledge)*, are not susceptible of errors (Namtog or false visions), for they are. "....and further....."Whatever is not known to our geographers seems to be a non-existent locality. Thus: 
Mysticism . . . is reported to have originated in the fabulous country Sambhala."....and so on....and reading further also about the Kalachakra Tantra....."âItâ meaning the âDus-kyi Khorlo,â or Tibetan Mysticism. A system as old as man, known in India and practised before Europe had become a continent, âWas first known,â we are told, only nine or ten centuries ago! The text of its books in its present form may have âoriginatedâ even later, for there are numerous such texts that have been tampered with by sects to suit the fancies of each. But who has read the original book on Dus-Kyi Khorlo, re-written by Tsong-kha-pa, with his Commentaries? Considering that this grand Reformer burnt every book on Sorcery on which he could lay his hands in 1387, and that he has left a whole library of his own worksânot a tenth part of which has ever been made knownâsuch statements as those above quoted are, to say the least, premature." 
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v14/mb_010.htm 
(Dus-Kyi Khorlo is the Kalachakra Tantra) 

Some persons have been saying that the esoteric doctrine on the Kalachakra given by Tsong Khapa was taught in Tibet (Ganden is mentioned) in the 1930'ties and likely until the Chinese arrvied in Tibet in 1959, and maybe, it still is, somewhere in the region, although more withdrawn it seems. And maybe there in reality are genuine copies of Tsong-Khapa's Kalachakra doctrine in existence today. But they are not given out openly to the public for various reasons it seems. Karma being one of them. - And what requires a strong effort to learn and know about, yields a better spiritual fruit it seems. 
And H. P. Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine and a great number of her articles and letters in fact contain a whole lot for any serious beginner student (the non-lazy of them, I think). These are however just my views. And there are in our time not many officially available books and scriptures in English or just translations to other languages, which deal with the Kalachakra teachings on the same level, and with a clear reference to the seven keys to the mystery language, and the ancient mutual truths found in the mythological teachings (and importantly cross cultures) on our globe. If I am mistaken, I will gladly like to learn about it. 

- - - 
Maybe one aught to upload the original version given by Buddhapalita and Chandrakirti (Dava Dagpa) - both in english and sanskrit (or tibetan)? (But most translations in English etc. seem to cost money these days.) 
But "Ocean of Nectar: The True Nature of All Things" by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso (Geshe Kelsang Gyatso's "Spiritual Father" was the great Gelugpa Master Kyabje Trijang Dorjechang (1900-1981 CE),[14] who was at one time the Throne Holder (or Ganden Tripa) of Je Tsongkhapaâs tradition - says Wikipedia) 
is for instance quite cheap - and sell for about only 20$ or less. 

Buddhapalita's "BuddhapÄlitaâs Commentary to the Fundamental Verses on the Middle Way" (Translated and edited by Ian Coghlan, 2010, is online here in one version, --- a draft translation: 
http://buddhapalitavrtti.com/BUDDHAPALITAVRITTI_CHAPTERS_1_%20AND_2.pdf 

Also "Ocean of Reasoning -- Tsong Khapa's Great Commentary on Nagarjuna's Mulamadhyamakakarika" by Jay L. Garfield and Geshe Ngawang Samten (2006) first official english translation it seems - could also be interesting in a free version and perhaps in another translation. 

Perhaps also "The Theory of Two Truths in India First published Thu Feb 17, 2011" by Thakchoe, Sonam. 
(The not unimportant differences between Prasangika and Svatantrika are highlighted on one level of understanding): 
CONCLUSION 
"To sum up, though this entry provides just an overview of the theory of the two truths in Indian Buddhism discussed overview, it nevertheless offers us enough reasons to believe that there is no single theory of the two truths in Indian Buddhism. As we have seen there are many such competing theories, some of which are highly complex and sophisticated. The essay clearly shows, however, that except for the PrÄsaágika's theory of the two truths, which unconditionally rejects all forms of foundationalism both conventionally and ultimately, all other theories of the two truths, while rejecting some forms of foundationalism, embrace another form of foundationalism. The Sarvastivadin (or Vaibhasika) theory rejects the substance-metaphysics of the Brahmanical schools, yet it claims the irreducible spatial units (e.g., atoms of the material category) and irreducible temporal units (e.g., point-instant consciousnesses) of the five basic categories as ultimate truths, which ground conventional truth, which is comprised of only reducible spatial wholes or temporal continua. Based on the same metaphysical assumption and although with modified definitions, the Sautrantika argues that the unique particulars (svalaksana) which, they say, are ultimately causally efficient, are ultimately real; whereas the universals (samanyalaksana) which are only conceptually constructed, are only conventionally real. Rejecting the Abhidharmika realism, the Yogacara proposes a form of idealism in which which it is argued that only mental impressions are conventionally real and nondual perfect nature is the ultimately real. The Svatantrika Madhyamaka, however, rejects both the Abhidharmika realism and the Yogacara idealism as philosophically incoherent. It argues that things are only intrinsically real, conventionally, for this ensures their causal efficiency, things do not need to be ultimately intrinsically real. Therefore it proposes the theory which states that conventionally all phenomena are intrinsically real (svabhavatah) whereas ultimately all phenomena are intrinsically unreal (nihsvabhavatah). Finally, the Prasangika Madhyamaka rejects all the theories of the two truths including the one advanced by its Madhyamaka counterpart, namely, Svatantrika, on the ground that all the theories are metaphysically too stringent, and they do not provide the ontological malleability necessary for the ontological identity of conventional truth (dependent arising) and ultimate truth (emptiness). It therefore proposes the theory of the two truths in which the notion of intrinsic reality is categorically denied. It argues that only when conventional truth and ultimate truth are both conventionally and ultimately non-intrinsic, can they be causally effective. " 
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/twotruths-india/ 

My view is to add to the Prsangika version in the above: Yet, absolute negation, cannot be such alone, (a theory), because all theories are denied, and denials as well as non-denials also, when one consider Prasanga or Prasangika teachings. 

- - - 
Yet some translators are more able than others no doubt (smile.) 

Just a few views of mine... 

M. Sufilight 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Augoeides-222@SDzQJi7N2dVnvnN8TZDg7zOSV4OprilJeltpSbUmW5t-uiaPE55OBeiAWavgBP2y5oN0vXFDAsXQNJJYC2o-6YOdIDY.yahoo.invalid 
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 11:58 PM 
Subject: Re: theos-talk The Mahatmas on "a calm, even contemplative state of mind" 

Morten, 
When I read Daniel's nice post I recalled the Mahayana standard of walking, standing, sitting and reclining in regard to mindful awareness and meditation. 
John 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "M. Sufilight" < global-theosophy@IEIWdVdv-PJJQtBaTE4iv2F9A9FAG9mlzlI2YlWAwhdb69O3e-5cv8D0wCkGBCFk1W4M_kPiJFGNO-jadgm7hTqgktY.yahoo.invalid > 
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 10:03:21 AM 
Subject: Re: theos-talk The Mahatmas on "a calm, even contemplative state of mind" 

Beautiful! 
Thank you very much for quoting these words Daniel. 

- - - 
A request: 
Are there a few hans who are able to upload the - FIRST EDITIONS - of the Alice A. Bailey book: "A Treatise on Cosmic Fire" (1925), - and perhaps more secondary also the first editions of "Initiation - Human and Solar" (1922), "Letters on Occult Meditation" (1922), "A Treatise on White Magic" (1934), "Esoteric Psychology I" (1936), The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali (1927). 

If uploading C. W. Leadbeaters books as well as Annie Besants are important - then I find "A Treatise on Cosmic Fire" by Alice A. Bailey important as well. I was once told that some of the footnotes was missing in the first edition of this book "A Treatise on Cosmic Fire" (1925). Are anyone able to confirm this? 

- - - 
Comparative studying seem still important to some seekers. Other seekers are carefully avoiding it. 

M. Sufilight 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Daniel 
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 6:25 PM 
Subject: theos-talk The Mahatmas on "a calm, even contemplative state of mind" 

The Mahatmas gave the following advice: 

"Knowledge for the mind, like food for the body, is intended to feed and help to growth, but it requires to be well digested and the more thoroughly and slowly the process is carried out the better both for body and mind." 

"For a clearer comprehension of the extremely abstruse and at first incomprehensible theories of our occult doctrine never allow the serenity of your mind to be disturbed during your hours of literary labour, nor before you set to work. It is upon the serene and placid surface of the unruffled mind that the visions gathered from the invisible find a representation in the visible world. Otherwise you would vainly seek those visions, those flashes of sudden light . . . which alone can bring the truth before the eye of the soul. It is with jealous care that we have to guard our mind-plane from all the adverse influences which daily arise in our passage through earth-life." 

"On close observation, you will find that it was never the intention of the Occultists really to conceal what they had been writing from the earnest determined students, but rather to lock up their information for safety-sake, in a secure safe-box, the key to which is - intuition. The degree of diligence and zeal with which the hidden meaning is sought by the student, is generally the test - how far he is entitled to the possession of the so buried treasure." 

"The lake in the mountain heights of your being is one day a tossing waste of waters, as the gust of caprice or temper sweeps through your soul; the next a mirror as they subside and peace reigns in the 'house of life.' One day you win a step forward; the next you fall two back. Chelaship admits none of these transitions; its prime and constant qualification is a calm, even contemplative state of mind (not the mediumistic passivity) fitted to receive psychic impressions from without, and to transmit one's own from within. The mind can be made to work with electric swiftness in a high excitement; but the Buddhi - never. To its clear region, calm must ever reign." 

Daniel 
Blavatsky Study Center / Blavatsky Archives 
http://blavatskyarchives.com 
http://blavatskystudycenter.com 

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