Theos-Talk Archives (May 2011 Message tt00021)

Dear Joaquim

My views are:

I agree very much with you.
My stance is however, that C. G. Jung was not rejecting the idea of philosophical considerations. He in fact considers the importance or non-importance of the doctrine on reincarnation etc.
His point of view was merely scientific - instead of fantatical or only belief-based. The doctrines on the Law of karma and reincarnation aught not to be forwarded as dogmas, but as hypothesises. Yet, I do also find that C. G. Jung's appearnt level of hesitation and reluctancy in suggesting what to put instead of these doctrines is a mistake on his part. So I will square it a little, and recommend that one seek to understand Jung's scientific approach. Of course it is not a promotion of ethics in the same manner as the promoters of the doctrines on the Law of karma and reincarnation are doinf, - this -  as you seem to say, can be shown from his reluctance in considering these doctrine compared to other ethics.

But since Theosophy early on was defined as - the exact Science on Psychology - by the magazine The Theosophist in Volume I, no 1, 1879 - I find it important to compare the two positions - as scientifically as possible - with an eye on psychological aspects as well as philosophical aspect.
Okay?

Another reason is, what is a fact to me, namely that many later theosophical or esoterical off-shoot seem to do a bad job in understanding theosophical psychology and its relation to secterian and non-secterian bahviours - among various groups in society, AND, ESPECIALLY its relation to theosophical/esoterical groups as well, and how they operate, when promoting altruisme without avoiding a secterian stance.



M. Sufilight

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: jdmsoares 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 12:31 AM
  Subject: Re: theos-talk Theosophy, Carl Jung and the "Tibetan Book of the Dead"


    

  Dear Sufilight, friends,

  Sufilight thanks.

  The works of Jung that you mentioned just prove that he doesn't know
  anything except the lower self. He shows an almost totally contempt for
  oriental philosophy, and many more things.

  That is comprehensible, because Jung prefers to be attached to the
  materialistic point of view. Besides that, Jung makes constant use of
  deliberate ambiguity and a relativistic approach to the subjects.

  So, as a student of theosophy I cannot see any philosophical value in
  the two works mentioned in the links you gave us.

  More important, as shown in the text "Freud, Jung, And Ethics",
  Jung's ideas are in opposition to ethics. We know that Ethics are in
  the center of true Psychology.

  We can read in the text:

  "While Freud, though not a professional philosopher, approaches the
  problem from a psychological and philosophical angle as William James,
  Dewey, and Macmurray have done, Jung states in the beginning of his
  book:

  `I restrict myself to the observation of phenomena and I refrain
  from any application of metaphysical or philosophical
  considerations.'

  He then goes on to explain how, as a psychologist, he can analyze
  religion without application of philosophical considerations." [1]

  Jung uses again the same approach in the mentioned works, supposedly
  about "Life after Death".

  One of the Mahatmas taught:

  "Exact experimental Science has nothing to do with morality, virtue,
  philanthropy, therefore can make no claim upon our help, until it blends
  itself with the metaphysics." [2]

  Best regards, Joaquim

  NOTES:

  [1] Worth reading "Freud, Jung, And Ethics" at
  http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=173
  <http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=173> and 
  http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2010/08/freud-jung-and-ethics.html
  <http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2010/08/freud-jung-and-ethics.html> 
  .

  [2] Read at http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/mahatma_letters.htm
  <http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/mahatma_letters.htm>

  --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" <global-theosophy@...>
  wrote:
  >
  > Well, allright...here are a few words...to contemplate in a
  comparative study.
  >
  > C G. Jung (d. 1961) on the Law of Karma and Reincarnation:
  > LIfe After Death
  > http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/C.G._Jung_-_On_Life_After_Death.pdf
  >
  > Carl Jung's near-death experience
  > "The unconscious psyche believes in life after death"
  > http://www.near-death.com/jung.html
  >
  >
  >
  > M. Sufilight
  >
  >
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: jdmsoares
  > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  > Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 1:17 AM
  > Subject: theos-talk Theosophy, Carl Jung and the "Tibetan Book of
  the Dead"
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > Dear friends,
  >
  > There are many students of theosophy who admire the thought of Carl
  > Jung.
  >
  > However, maybe most of them don't see that Jung ideas are contrary
  > to Ethics, as Eric Fromm and others showed.
  >
  > There is a most interesting article that brings even more evidences
  > about the untheosophical ideais of Mr. Jung, and his relation with a
  > Dugpa sect.
  >
  > The text is published at our websites www.Esoteric-Philosophy.com
  > <http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/> and www.TheosophyOnline.com
  > <http://www.theosophyonline.com/> with the title:
  >
  > THEOSOPHY AND THE "BARDO THODOL"
  > Or Examining Some Affinities Between
  > Carl G. Jung And a Certain Tibetan Sect
  >
  > As it is written in the text:
  >
  > "If is perhaps a challenging fact for students of theosophy in the
  21st
  > century that a well-known thinker as Carl Jung was connected to the
  > Ningmapa sect literature, as well as to their methods and occult
  > inclinations. As we shall see, one of the main Ningma "best-selling"
  > books - the so-called "Bardo Thodol" or "Tibetan Book of the Dead" -
  had
  > a long- standing personal influence on Jung and received an
  enthusiastic
  > public support from him."
  >
  > Direct links to the text:
  > www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2010/08/theosophy-and-bardo-thodol.html
  > 
  <http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2010/08/theosophy-and-bardo-thodol.h\
  \
  > tml> and http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=89
  > <http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=89> .
  >
  > Best regards, Joaquim
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >

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