Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven Strategy
Aug 15, 2010 06:10 PM
by Cass Silva
Morten, with respect
>
>From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@Y8FrhwLYPGbhsZydy6T_lZiZxCKoT1diZtu5HLFyxALvagZLdEWogfyoKoGYun5lj-4zax1rEHid5XLwyHaCuRrZe5g.yahoo.invalid>
>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Sun, 15 August, 2010 5:27:27 PM
>Subject: Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven
>Strategy
>
>Â
>Dear Cass and friends
>
>My views are:
>
>I think you are missing the point with what the TS originally aimed at.
>It was aimed at those who was in search for the truth about life and its
>meaning, and who found altruism to be of importance to it, and who was in
>sympathy with the idea of altruism. People was in 1875-1891 only invited to join
>the TS so to benefit in their spiritual search on the meaning of life and to by
>socializing help themselves and if possible others to alleviate suffering, and
>even if possible end the strifes between the world religions. And you call this
>a bad idea?
>
>Cass:Â With respect, my understanding is that HPB'sÂmission was to disseminate
>the wisdom held by the east to the West, in a format that was more appropriate
>for the western mind.ÂÂÂÂThat this clashed with the beliefs of the world
>religions (mainly Christianity) at that time,Âwas a backlash of declaring a
>philosophy that encompassed all religions. I cannot find any evidence that HPB
>was concerned with reunification of dogmatic religious organizations. I don't
>think the Original Programme was a good or a bad idea, but a set of rules to
>follow, and we all know the Victorians loved rules.Â
>
>Â
>Let's be honest, Leadbeater broke these rules by introducing his own 'brand' of
>theosophy,and Annie Besant twisted them to promote the idea of her World
>Saviour, as I see no reference to these rules in these behaviours.
>Â
>Perhaps Daniel, can answer this question, on why HPB gave no public speeches, if
>the idea was to seek to teach others by offering TS to the wider community?Â
>
>
>The Original Programe was just a frame offered so that people could meet, read
>and learn, and also seek to teach each others by offering their views. - The
>idea was not, that one should - need - to rely on a Programe, the exact opposite
>was the idea. If the aim of altruism is not whintin the fundament from which you
>operate then the Original Programe will never be something for you. If it
>however is so, and if you are in search for the truth about life, and do not
>call yourself infallible, - this place might be the right one to join. - The
>Original Programe (1875-1891) was offered so to avoid dogmatism and secterian
>behaviour and promoted openmindesness in a search for the truth about life,
>doing this based on altrusism to the best of ones own abilities. Those who
>oppose the rejection of dogmatism and secterian behaviour, and who reject the
>search for altruism will never stay at such a place using such a frame. - Yet it
>is also true, that not all persons will be members of such a group. They have
>other things to do. But saying that it is and cannot be helpful, I cannot agree
>upon.
>
>Cass: I reiterate, did Leadbeater introduce a dogmatic and sectarian behaviour,
>did he promote an openmindedness when announcing the formation of the Liberal
>Catholic Church - was he not attempting to Âappease the establishment by
>promoting a 'new catholocism and himself as its Peter?"
>Â
>I did not take an Oath of allegiance to the original programe when Theosophy was
>introduced to me. That I eventually joined TS Melbourne (after four years
>ofÂone to one personalÂteaching) was to study more intensely the teachings, and
>I am grateful to those Melbourne Theosophists who assisted meÂon my journey,
>Âwith no reference to laws or regulations, rather the only unspoken requirement
>was to approach each subject with open mindedness, as they themselves were the
>first to admit there own infallibility and welcomed any constructive query or
>criticism.Â
>Â
>Why is it a problem for you that I am a member of Theos Talk? This is an open
>forum. That it was unmoderated and that people were free to express their
>opinions is more in line with theÂideals of what theosophy is. After 20 years
>of study I have come to certain conclusions aboutÂcertain teachings by certain
>past leaders, however, these opinions of mine have no bearing or consequences on
>those that currently head the TS.ÂÂ That I should be excommunicated because of
>my opinions is entirely up to those who hold the power. AllÂmy aim isÂis to
>share what little knowledge I have with others who may seek to ask me my opinion
>or interpretation of certain teachings.
>By the By, I have the greatest admiration for the political stance that Annie
>Besant took, her work on women's rights, the union movements, and
>theÂindependance of Ireland and India, have imo set the stage for a world that
>now can boast equality, well at least in the West.
>Â
>Cheers
>CassÂ
>Â
>Cass wrote:
>"Universal Brotherhood is a given if one is on
>the spiritual path, that it has to be addressed as a prerequisite for membership
>
>suggests one is not ready."
>
>M. Sufilight says:
>Despite this view form you, I find that you are a member of this place called
>Theos-talk.
>
>Look here most persons on this planet do not have anything but a trifle of
>knowledge about what Universal Brotherhood really is even if they parade among
>their fellow human beings as if they do know it, and know it all. So I will not
>call it "a given". Why join a closed sect and claim that this will help ending
>the strifes between the world religions or stand alone and say that solitude is
>the path forward?
>
>The main idea of the TS in 1875-1891 was as I see it, and correct me if I am
>wrong, to do something similar to The Parliament of the Worlds Religions, but
>with a more open kind of membership, yet as a difference rejecting membership of
>any dogmatic religious doctrines and any kind of secterian behaviour within the
>organisation so to oppose that which was and is not based on altrusism - (and
>shortly stated to make people aware of what we today call the falsehood in Mind
>Control schemes). And thereby to alleviate suffering, ending the strife of the
>worlds religions in the search for the truth based on altruism. Those few
>persons like you, Cass, who seem to already have already found the truth - and
>who cannot learn anything any longer - a place like this (the Original TS with
>its Original Programe) would and will not be for you, as I see it. (smile.) A
>place like the TS will not always be healthy for anyone, yet is was offered so
>to help humanity - and as the cornerstone for the world-religion of the future.
>
>
>I hope this clarified something.
>The above words are just my views, maybe I am in error, but then the readers
>might be so kind as to tell me why.
>
>M. Sufilight
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Cass Silva
>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 8:21 AM
>Subject: Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven
>Strategy
>
>What I am saying is that a true seeker of wisdom does not need to rely on a
>program. As I said, programs are for administrators and those that are
>interested in the practicalities. Universal Brotherhood is a given if one is on
>the spiritual path, that it has to be addressed as a prerequisite for membership
>
>suggests one is not ready.
>>Cass
>>
>>From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@Y8FrhwLYPGbhsZydy6T_lZiZxCKoT1diZtu5HLFyxALvagZLdEWogfyoKoGYun5lj-4zax1rEHid5XLwyHaCuRrZe5g.yahoo.invalid>
>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>Sent: Sat, 14 August, 2010 6:08:01 PM
>>Subject: Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven
>>Strategy
>>
>>
>>Dear Cass
>>
>>My views are:
>>
>>I find your answer to be a very eloquent manner of avoiding to answer the
>>questions I forwarded in my previous email.
>>But thanks for answering.
>>
>>So you are saying that the Original Programe of of The Theosophical Society in
>>1875-1891 are unimportant?
>>And that we better follow the present day formulation on Theos-talk or that we
>>better refuse to care at all and run around like headless villains?
>>
>>Theos-talk states on its frontpage the following and nothing else as far as I
>>know:
>>"Description
>>Discussion on topics regarding Theosophy (or theosophy) and its realization in
>>the modern world. A forum completely independent of control by established
>>theosophical organizations."
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/
>>
>>- - -
>>If you do not want the Original Programe of of The Theosophical Society in
>>1875-1891 what do you then want? -
>>
>>Do you want Mind Control or fanatism and political entanglement all over - or a
>
>>nasty attempt of Christianizing the visdoms teachings og all ages - and
>>similarily of the Original Programe of of The Theosophical Society in
>1875-1891?
>>
>>M. Sufilight
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Cass Silva
>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 3:12 AM
>>Subject: Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven
>>Strategy
>>
>>Without studying this in depth, my first opinion is that there were as many
>>changes made to the original program as there were changes to the bible. The
>>then TS had two distinct paths, one, section, the exoteric and the other, headed
>>
>>
>>by HPB was the esoteric section.
>>>
>>>>From what I can gather those that were not included in the esoteric have been
>>>disgruntled since its inauguration and have been vying for supremecy ever
>>>since. Unfortunately it seems that with the passing of HPB there was no esoteric
>>>
>>>
>>>leader to take her place, hence the void was filled by members of the exoteric
>
>
>>>section, who were neither disciples nor chelas, but to ensure their validity
>>>invoked the claim of being in touch with the Masters, even though the masters
>>>made it clear that with the passing of HPB, all physical contact would end.
>>>
>>>However, HPB fulfilled her mission, that she left Isis and The Secret Doctrine
>
>
>>>was not only written for exoteric followers but also to those intuit esoterics,
>>
>>
>>>which she clearly stated, would require seeing the trees through the forest.
>>>
>>>One cannot claim to be a disciple or chela without the knowledge of the laws of
>>
>>
>>>nature and their mastery. Simple clairvoyance does not cut it, but merely
>>>exposes a small corner. That Leadbeater and Besant got it totally wrong in
>>>their treatise on the atomic nature of matter, proves that they were not true
>>>esotericists but administrators, changing the original program to suit their own
>>>
>>>
>>>belief systems of what they believed Theosophy to be. They may have done a
>>>reasonable job explaining the exoteric but fell well short when it came to the
>
>
>>>esoteric.
>>>
>>>
>>>Cass
>>>From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@Y8FrhwLYPGbhsZydy6T_lZiZxCKoT1diZtu5HLFyxALvagZLdEWogfyoKoGYun5lj-4zax1rEHid5XLwyHaCuRrZe5g.yahoo.invalid>
>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>>Sent: Fri, 13 August, 2010 2:29:53 AM
>>>Subject: Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven
>>>Strategy
>>>
>>>
>>>Dear Cass and friends
>>>
>>>My views are:
>>>
>>>So you are am member here, and do not know what it all originally was about?
>>>How saddening.
>>>
>>>Allright it might be a good idea to forward the Original Programe as it was
>>>given in 1875-1891 - when its main co-founder lived.
>>>
>>>In the below *** A ***, *** B *** and *** C *** must be views as beloning to the
>>>
>>>
>>>Original Programe of The Theosophical Society in 1875-1891. The primary text
>>>must be *** B *** since it was written latest and written when the The
>>>Theosophical Society according to the main founder H. P. Blavatsky - already had
>>>
>>>
>>>deteriorated. Others will claim that *** A *** is the primary one. *** C ***
>>>must be considered to be of secondary importance and is merely posted here so
>>>the readers more easily can pitcture the changes since 1891 until 1905 and later
>>>
>>>
>>>until today - as given in *** D *** and *** E ***.
>>>
>>>*** A ***
>>>The Original Programe of the Theosophical Society was given here
>>>(I recommend that one read it carefully and if in need consult various
>>>references):
>>>ORIGINAL PROGRAME MANUSCRIPT - 1886 (BCW, Vol. VII, p. 145)
>>>http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v7/yxxxx_019.htm
>>>
>>>*** B ***
>>>Preamble of the Theosophical Society - october 1875
>>>http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/gfkforum/ourdir.htm#Preamble%20of%20the%20T.S.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>*** C ***
>>>CONSTITUTION AND RULES
>>>OF
>>>THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY
>>>As Revised in Session of the General Council,
>>>all the Section being represented,
>>>at Adyar, December 27, 1890.
>>>
>>>The Theosophist - January 1891
>>>http://www.global-theosophy.net/ts_constitution_rules.php
>>>
>>>*** D ***
>>>Full Text Of The International Rules And Regulations
>>>
>>>MEMORANDUM OF ASSOCIATION, ETC.
>>>MEMORANDUM OF ASSOCIATION AND RULES AND REGULATIONS
>>>1997 as amended 2005, 2006
>>>
>>>CERTIFICATE OF INCORPORATION
>>>NO. 2 of 1905
>>>http://joomla.theosophyforward.com/2009/06/full-text-of-the-international-rules-and-regulations-memorandum-of-association/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>---- or ----
>>>http://www.katinkahesselink.net/his/rules.htm
>>>
>>>*** E ***
>>>THE BYLAWS OF
>>>THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY
>>>IN AMERICA
>>>Revised as authorized by Referendum, June 2010
>>>http://www.theosophical.org/local_groups/2010_%20Bylaws.pdf
>>>
>>>The first link *** A *** - must necessarily be the basis - for all work which
>>>dare to use the name the Theosophical Society or to claim its background derives
>>>
>>>
>>>from the Theosophical Society - or even H. P. Blavatsky. If anyone disagree on
>
>
>>>this let us know why.
>>>
>>>The second link *** B *** show how the original attempt was formulated. And by
>
>
>>>comparing *** B *** with *** A *** one will discover a few differences nut not
>
>
>>>many. I follow *** B *** as the primary one - assisted by *** A *** and *** C
>>>***. Today they will of course have to be reformulated.
>>>
>>>The third link is the CONSTITUTION AND RULES OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY as they
>>>
>>>
>>>were when H. P. Blavatsky still lived, and shortly before her - official -
>>>physical departure from this planet. After she died, various paragraphs and
>>>formulations of aims and limitations have been changed or even deleted in the
>>>Constitution and Rules of The Theosophical Society. And no clairification has
>>>been given as to why such changes - was necessary - and whether they were in
>>>agreement with the Original Programes intentions and altruism as such. By
>>>comparing *** A ***, *** B *** and *** C *** with *** D *** one will be able to
>>
>>
>>>spot various very interesting differences. One of them is that the paragraph
>>>(Article XIV) on political involvement has been deleted or changed as shown in
>
>
>>>*** E *** (by using the word "substantial").
>>>
>>>- - -
>>>Now this forums are officially to newcomers only giving the following input as
>
>
>>>its aims so far:
>>>"Description
>>>Discussion on topics regarding Theosophy (or theosophy) and its realization in
>
>
>>>the modern world. A forum completely independent of control by established
>>>theosophical organizations."
>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/
>>>
>>>Not this can only be said to be an inadequate formulation, if one should have
>>>the Original Programe of the Theosophical Society (1875-1891) in mind.
>>>
>>>
>>>The questions which are still lingering are therefore:
>>>Should it be in accordance with the Original Programe of the Theosophical
>>>Society as it was given by HPB and others in 1875-1891? Or should it deviate
>>>from it, and if so why and in what manner?
>>>
>>>If the moderators of the forum refuse to answer on these question, I will
>>>conclude that silence is the answer - and its impact will follow the -
>>>silencers!
>>>
>>>- - -
>>>The same questions are also offered to any group calling it self theosophical or
>>>
>>>
>>>claims to derive its teachings from The Theosophical Society and perhaps even H.
>>>
>>>
>>>P. Blavatsky.
>>>
>>>Those I will ask:
>>>Are your organisation in accordance with the Original Programe of the
>>>Theosophical Society as it was given by HPB and others in 1875-1891? Or is it
>>>deviating from it, and if so why and in what manner?
>>>
>>>If the members of such organisations - openly - refuse to answer on these
>>>question, I will conclude that silence is the answer - and its impact will
>>>follow the - silencers!
>>>
>>>- - -
>>>I am waiting for the answers...or the silence.
>>>
>>>M. Sufilight
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Cass Silva
>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>>Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:48 AM
>>>Subject: Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven
>>>Strategy
>>>
>>>I don't even know what the original programme was!
>>>Cass
>>>
>>>>
>>>>From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@Y8FrhwLYPGbhsZydy6T_lZiZxCKoT1diZtu5HLFyxALvagZLdEWogfyoKoGYun5lj-4zax1rEHid5XLwyHaCuRrZe5g.yahoo.invalid>
>>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>>>Sent: Thu, 12 August, 2010 4:34:44 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven
>>>>Strategy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Dear Cass and friends
>>>>
>>>>My views are:
>>>>
>>>>I do not think I have expressed any issue with the moderators of this forum
>>>>except - asking the question about whether it seeks to be governed by the
>>>>Original Programe as it was given by HPB and others in 1875-1891 - and whether
>>
>>
>>
>>>>they seek to deviate from it - and if so in what manner, and why?
>>>>
>>>>If you are seeking to involve the forum and the Original Programe with politics
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>- please state your reasons why this can be said to be in accordance with the
>
>
>>>>Original Programe as it was given in 1875-1891 by HPB and others?
>>>>
>>>>M. Sufilight
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: Cass Silva
>>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 2:53 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven
>>>>Strategy
>>>>
>>>>Morten,
>>>>
>>>>I am referring to the politics of global inhumanity to man. That you and others
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>have issue with the administrators, particularly on content, censorship and/or
>>
>>
>>
>>>>advocacy of individual past theosophists continues to ignite the politics which
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>you say should not be part of the theosophical agenda.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Can you answer what your real core issue is? What is your agenda? If TS Adyar
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>opposes your personal principles, you should know, that any attempt to bring it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>into line with your thinking is futile. One cannot change a hyena into a
>>>>>leopard. To expect those that see value in the teachings of Besant, Leadbeater,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Bailey, Krishnamurti to abandon them because they do not adhere to Blavatsky's
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>teachings is naive. Theosophy, like it or not, built upon the acceptance of
>>>>>their works, rightly or wrongly, even with its christian bent, and to now expect
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>an admission of error in teaching would for them mean to admit the infallibility
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>of theosophy and its administrators. To place Blavatsky as the one and only
>>>>>true advocate of Theosophy would require gargantuan moral courage to do so,
>>>>>and my personal belief is that there are no gargantuan personalities with this
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>strength of character, nor is there any desire to change the status quo.
>>>>>
>>>>>I am hoping that Theos Talk was not established as the David to overthrow the
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>Goliath Theosophy but as a forum for anyone interested in discussing the
>>>>>teachings of Blavatsky, Besant, Leadbeater, Krishnamurti, Bailey, etc etc, pro
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>or against. It is the individual that must decide which teacher they wish to
>
>
>>>>>follow. Yes, it irks me, that Blavatsky has been given secondary status at
>>>>>Adyar, but she herself, walked away, without any attempt to discredit those she
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>left behind. We have the same choice. That Adyar is the flagship for
>>>>>Theosophy but not for Blavatsky is not our concern.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Blavatsky stated that all theosophists should rid themselves of its priests can
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>only be accomplished by individuals that see priests in the belfry. If they do
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>not, then kicking the horse will only result in the kicker living with a
>>>>>very sore leg!
>>>>>
>>>>>Cass
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@Y8FrhwLYPGbhsZydy6T_lZiZxCKoT1diZtu5HLFyxALvagZLdEWogfyoKoGYun5lj-4zax1rEHid5XLwyHaCuRrZe5g.yahoo.invalid>
>>>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>Sent: Wed, 11 August, 2010 2:40:55 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven
>>>>>Strategy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Ordinary lawmaking politics was as you know not a part of the Original Programe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>in the TS in 1875-1891.
>>>>>Even later I believe Jinarjadasa had to stop political articles in the
>>>>>theosophical Magazine. But about that time, Annie Besant and others had already
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>begun to get the TS hopelessly entangled with the political party the Indian
>
>
>>>>>National Congress - virtually a deathblow to the theopshical doctrines and the
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>frame of the Original Programe given in 1875-1891 in the Constitution and
>>>>Rules.
>>>>>
>>>>>So I will have to ask you, why you insist on putting emphasis on lies and decit
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>- instead of seeking to end the strifes of the world religions - and - the study
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>of the INNER man as the original programe aimed at?
>>>>>Altruism is central to the original programe of the TS, should this now be
>>>>>exchanged with something else - and the original TS be called a political
>>>>>organisation?
>>>>>
>>>>>M. Sufilight
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: Cass Silva
>>>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 3:21 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven
>>>>>Strategy
>>>>>
>>>>>Hi Morten,
>>>>>I'm over all the internal politics - but I believe we should be addressing
>>>>>global politics from a TS perspective.
>>>>>
>>>>>Cass
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@Y8FrhwLYPGbhsZydy6T_lZiZxCKoT1diZtu5HLFyxALvagZLdEWogfyoKoGYun5lj-4zax1rEHid5XLwyHaCuRrZe5g.yahoo.invalid>
>>>>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>Sent: Tue, 10 August, 2010 3:46:01 AM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven
>>>>>>Strategy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Are theosophists of late being concerned with politics?
>>>>>>In the old days the Original Programe was against it. Why this deviation today
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>year 2010?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: Govert Schuller
>>>>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 6:27 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven
>>>>>>Strategy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Dear John,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes, the Schuman/Bezemov material is very revealing. His interview with Edward
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Griffin is also available on youtube and google videos.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The fact that he worked as a KGB agent in India might be of interest to
>>>>>>Theosophists.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2307456730142665916#
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_xdBnFPqOI&feature=PlayList&p=4CDAB99FAB5980BA&index=0
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>BTW, Griffin started recently Project Red Pill:
>>>>>>http://www.realityzone.com/prp.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Govert
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: Augoeides-222@18kH-2KFksrjcY--XvdbYL56bl2lVHnGbjTRSzJhVF5TgRhwlntMn8VfxG5pZBi5K_IBNcM9HXOrqWDf6FfV.yahoo.invalid
>>>>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 12:10 AM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven
>>>>>>Strategy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Govert,
>>>>>>Thanks much for the important posts from you and your links to your articles. I
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>have bookmarked alomost every single link in them and will be reading for
>>>>>>months! I especially liked the New Zealand Researcher Interview about the
>>>>>>history of the Chicago Communists party and ilk, I was born and raised there (on
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>the South side) so i can really relate to it all. I did notice that he made no
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>mention of that mentor Saul David Lewinsky and the book "Rule for Radicals- A
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>Pragmatic Primary for Practical Radicals". Some of the things mentioned have
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>taken place and become fact. Also I skimmed the titles about the G20 and a new
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Intl. Currency, the Admin. has in it's new Statute created a new Dept. named the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Office of the Currency" which will monitor and regulate the new social order
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>"Transformation. Also mention was made of certain "code words" that have been
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>used. The acceptance speech was made and over his shoulder was the Greek "Temple
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>of Apollo" a serect display especially created for the "Apollo Alliance"
>>>>>>benefit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Anatoliy Galitsyn isn't the only worthy former KGB there is another thta has
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>extremely important instructive Video's online "Thomas Schumann" alias "Yuri
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>Bezmenov" an expatriate has 10 video's online that instruct about the cardinal
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Stages and Elements used for the conquest and revoluntionary objectives. Google
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>or Yahoo video search "Thomas Schuman - "Secrets of Communism" and in watching
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>relate to the current actions of the now and the last several decades.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In Schuman's videos describe Four Critical Stages of Revoluntrionary Change that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>are required to successfully Communize a Nation:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thomas Schumann KGB Propaganda Expert described four stages that must be
>>>>>>accomplished
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Stages of Subversion:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1.Demoralization 15-25 years maturation period
>>>>>>2.Destabilization
>>>>>>3.Crisis
>>>>>>4. Normalization( the 1948 Czech process)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A. The "Elements " utilized to progress the goal are:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Activism using:
>>>>>>1. Religion - The Christian - Marxist Projectas one example
>>>>>>2.Education
>>>>>>3. Social Life
>>>>>>4.Power Structure
>>>>>>5. Labor Relations - Unions
>>>>>>6.Law and Order
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yuri Bezmenov -
>>>>>>>>>http://www.4shared.com/file/79865078/dbf057bs/World_Thought_Police_Yuri_Bezmenov.html<<<
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Muckity.org<<< is a fantastic tool for discovering interactive relational
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>mapping between persons:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>2008 Obama Presidential Campaign
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>http://www.muckety.com/2008-Barack-Obama-presidential-campaign/5004664.muckety<<<
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>@008 & 2004 Senate Campaigns
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>http://www.muckety.com/Query?name=Obama+Campaign&prev=Obama+Campaign&SearchResult=5029144&SearchResult=5004664&graph=MucketyMap<<<
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>George Soros
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>http://www.muckety.com/George-Soros/4166.muckety<<<
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The Truth about George Soros
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=the+truth+about+george+soros&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=&aqi=<<<
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>John
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----s ,emtion have taken place and become From: "Govert
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Schuller" <schuller@lDaSXSh0XHj3qoeRYirekCjVBhW-qN83E-be2UBZbB-uqPmgyL4igc0ertEq1bgBRy646yl9NFcDPZhu-lg.yahoo.invalid>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, August 8, 2010 10:13:29 AM
>>>>>>Subject: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven Strategy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Dear John,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Very glad to see a fellow referring to the Golytsin thesis. I always thought it
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>was a most reasonable and fruitfull framework to evaluate world politics and
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>economics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It basically states that the Russians and Chinese have been strategically linked
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>since the Chinese communist takeover in 1949 and have been deceiving the West
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>ever since. Glasnost, Perestroika and the liberalization of East Europe were
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>just theatrics in service of a larger plan.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>But this deception could only have been pulled off by a fifth column in the West
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>of fellow travellers, hidden agents and especially think tanks like the Council
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>on Foreign Relations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Within this framework it also makes sense to evaluate Obama's policies as
>>>>>>implementing the so-called Cloward-Piven Strategy of intensifying crises to
>
>
>>>>>>justify the change of society into a more socialist mold.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As I've stated before, all those in the Krishnamurti, Theosophical and Ascended
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Master movements should take this very serious.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>But, don't take my word and do your homework. I have assembled throughout the
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>years relevant articles and sources and introduced them with my own
>>>>>>understanding of the many complex issues involved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The Abiding Communist Threat in its Open and Hidden Manifestations
>>>>>>http://www.alpheus.org/html/articles/parapolitics/commiethreat.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The Abiding Threat: The Ongoing Validity of the Angleton-Golytsin Thesis
>>>>>>http://www.alpheus.org/html/articles/parapolitics/AbidingThreat2009.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sliding into VGGD (Very Great Global Depression)
>>>>>>http://www.alpheus.org/html/Economy/SlidingIntoVGGD.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: Augoeides-222@18kH-2KFksrjcY--XvdbYL56bl2lVHnGbjTRSzJhVF5TgRhwlntMn8VfxG5pZBi5K_IBNcM9HXOrqWDf6FfV.yahoo.invalid
>>>>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 12:17 AM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: theos-talk Re: Action needed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Chuck,
>>>>>>Well, there are many views about why things happen. Nelson Mandela was a
>>>>>>communist revoluntionary who organized and promoted the overthrow of the
>>>>>>establishment
>>>>>>
>>>>>>government and was jailed for it, later, due to activism he won his release and
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>got a Nobel "Peace" Prize. Ghandi was primarily successful in terms of the
>>>>>>British due the the fact that they possessed integrity, character, and strong
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>moral and ethical tenets which disarmed them from using the tactics that Jengis
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Khan applied , Stalin applied, Mao applied or Hitler applied. In some case
>>>>>>virtue is a deficit that insures defeat when facing an unprincipled enemy. As
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>for good old Gorby, it ain't what is seemed to be. Why in the world did the US
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Gov. host good old Gorby and provide free offices at the Military base named the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Presidio here in California? He created his American Fondation that hooked up
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>with a multitude of activists groups here. Read "New Lies for Old" and "The
>
>
>>>>>>Peretroika Deception" by Anatoliy Galitsyn, former KBG and Head of soviet
>>>>>>Espionage for an eye opener on the real game.Remeber that Newsweek issue with
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>the cover that proclaimed "We are All Socialists Now!"??? Lol
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>John
>>>>>>
>>>>>>---- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "charles cosimano" < Drpsionic@8_-IayEeVetksYlCVUHoxFe03ekLBmZYwEkM5H561NurbygOHNaEmylsNByW6c4pap2nJ48rvw.yahoo.invalid >
>>>>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>Sent: Saturday, August 7, 2010 5:55:06 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: theos-talk Re: Action needed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>But those were actually the result of weakness on the part of the other side.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>The South Africans did not kill Nelson Mandela out of hand. The British did not
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>simply shoot Ghandi. And the Berlin Wall fell because the Soviet Empire could
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>not survive and Gorbachev lost his nerve.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Chuck the Heretic
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.charlescosimano.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: nhcareyta < nhcareyta@KqW5-UPcfgLG04ojy8FCGAdg60Kbi_uDiYknRIhk_xMaktVfilCB43XEjKWrKS4OmLE-Qa61Sx1k7hza9Y6E7GY.yahoo.invalid >
>>>>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>Sent: Sat, Aug 7, 2010 10:39 am
>>>>>>Subject: theos-talk Re: Action needed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Never" is a long time. Many extraordinary and inconceivable changes have
>>>>>>occurred just in our lifetime.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The ending of apartheid in South Africa; bringing down the Berlin wall; the
>
>
>>>>>>British leaving India.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>For whatever the impetus, these were monumental changes, thought impossible up
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>until the time they occurred.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And in any event, what's the alternative? Do nothing, say nothing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I think not, but granted the action must be as wise as we can determine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Never surrender to tyrany...never.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , Drpsionic@... wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And they still may never give a damn. How do you get past the mute button?
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chuck the Heretic
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _www.charlescosimano.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In a message dated 8/6/2010 10:22:50 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
>>>>>>> nhcareyta@... writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We wait a little longer, try a little harder...and never give up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- In
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _
>>>>>>> (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) , Drpsionic@ wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > And if the local constituents really don't give a damn?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Chuck the Heretic
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > www.charlescosimano.com
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > In a message dated 8/5/2010 6:20:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>>>>>>> > nhcareyta@ writes:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Dear John, Erica and All
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Thank you for your responses and actions.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Thanks to the internet and its popularity these issues are now being
>>>>>>> aired
>>>>>>> > throughout the broader community.
>>>>>>> > Similarly, migration and asylum seeking are bringing certain cultural
>>>>>>> > differences to the attention of powerful western forces through
>>>>>>> community
>>>>>>> > outrage and protest.
>>>>>>> > Already there are broad based, community discussions on highly sensitive
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>> > cultural and religious practices. From female circumcision to the
>>>>>>> wearing of
>>>>>>> > the burka in all its forms, and from certain kinds of torture to
>>>>>>> stonings,
>>>>>>> > all these matters are now being discussed internationally with many
>>>>>>> human
>>>>>>> > rights groups increasing the task of community education and action.
>>>>>>> > Community act_ion equates to votes and it will eventually take a
>>>>>>> foolhardy
>>>>>>> > western politician to ignore the voices of their local constituents.
>>>>>>> > The west can then_ bring greater pressure to bear on recalcitrant
>>>>>>> regimes.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Of course politics and economics are powerful forces and yes, these are
>
>
>>>>>>> > very early steps, but with the use of the internet and its opportunities
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> > act I can see the early signs of a broad based, international shift in
>>>>>>> > consciousness, such as we have never seen before.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Kind regards
>>>>>>> > Nigel
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > --- In
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _) _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> __theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _ (mailto: _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) __
>>>>>>> > (mailto:_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) ) , Augoeides-222@ wrote:
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > > Nigel,
>>>>>>> > > There are even video's of stoning online on Google and Yahoo video's.
>
>
>>>>>>> > There have been numerous articles in the last few years about retrograde
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>> 6th
>>>>>>> > century abominable punishments according the the conventions of Sharia
>>>>>>> Law
>>>>>>> > of Islamic faith . One was a young teenager who had relation with a boy
>
>
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> > they stoned her to death for the family "honor". There are Islamic
>>>>>>> > fundamentalist Personal Channels on Justin.tv ("Raah") and a few others
>
>
>>>>>>> that show
>>>>>>> > poor victum's having their fingers cut off while being tightly held by
>>>>>>> > several men, Men being led to a grassy area for decapitition and the
>>>>>>> head
>>>>>>> > proudly displayed sitting on the chest of the dead body. I posted a few
>
>
>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>> > 'Family honor" murder articles on this forum a while back. I find these
>
>
>>>>>>> > idea's, concepts, rationalizations and practices abhorrent, abominable
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> > psychotic abberation in this modern world of today. The Taliban are
>>>>>>> perfect
>>>>>>> > example of terrorist suppressive_ degenerate religionism and the Wa habi
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>> of_
>>>>>>> > Saudi Arabia was a mentor to them. In England they are requesting the
>>>>>>> right
>>>>>>> > to install Sharia Law parelell and eqeal to the British Justice
>>>>>>> Institute
>>>>>>> > itself. people never studied the History of conquest by "perfusion" and
>
>
>>>>>>> > "suffusion" and population displacement that is evidenced in History as
>
>
>>>>>>> a social
>>>>>>> > passive technique long established and practiced. A best present time is
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>> > China and Tibet where China is actively practising this historic method
>
>
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> > a vengeance. One morning in a future we may wake up to a dreadful
>>>>>>> reality
>>>>>>> > that slowly insidiously pervaded our social space and beingness, beware
>
>
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> > friends of greeks bearing gifts.
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > > John
>>>>>>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> > > From: "Erica L. Georgiades" <eletzerich@>
>>>>>>> > > To: _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>>>> _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _) _
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) __theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _ (mailto:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>_theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) __
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > (mailto:_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) _) _
>>>>>>> > > Sent: Thursday, August 5, 2010 7:50:53 AM
>>>>>>> > > Subject: Re: theos-talk Action needed
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > > Dear Nigel,
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > > Death by stoning because of adultery also exists in Afghanistan and
>>>>>>> > Somalia.
>>>>>>> > > From time to time I am signing petitions against such barbarism, this
>
>
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> > not the
>>>>>>> > > first. I remember some years ago a similar case in Somalia, her name
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> > Aisho
>>>>>>> > > ...dont remember the surname. And now Sakineh... the poor women has a
>
>
>>>>>>> > son and
>>>>>>> > > a daughter and is only 42 years old. Also I just read that in Iran
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> > is
>>>>>>> > > also another 10 women waiting death-roll sentence, for the same
>>>>>>> reason.
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > > Erica
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > > ________________________________
>>>>>>> > > From: nhcareyta < nhcareyta@ >
>>>>>>> > > To: _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>>>> _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _) _
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) __theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _ (mailto:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>_theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) __
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > (mailto:_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) _) _
>>>>>>> > > Sent: Thu, August 5, 2010 5:21:19 PM
>>>>>>> > > Subject: Re: theos-talk Action needed
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > > Dear Erica
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > > In spite of the considerable political considerations you mention, all
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>> > of which
>>>>>>> > > are accurate, there have been some quite remarkable social and
>>>>>>> political
>>>>>>> > changes
>>>>>>> > > over recent times. Avaaz is one organisation making real headway in
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> > similar
>>>>>>> > > situations, so all may not be lost.
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > > In any event, if we do nothing then certainly nothing will happen! So
>
>
>>>>>>> > thank you
>>>>>>> > > for contacting some of your fellow members. If everyone on t/talk does
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>> > the same
>>>>>>> > > a snowball reaction may occur.
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > > Kind regards
>>>>>>> > > Nigel
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > > --- In _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>>>> _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _) _
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) __theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _ (mailto:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>_theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) __
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > (mailto:_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) ) , "Erica" <eletzerich@> wrote:
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > Dear Nigel,
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > This is most barbarian thing, which is unacceptable. I think the
>>>>>>> > matter is in
>>>>>>> > > >fact an international matter and not only of influence of one country
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>> > or
>>>>>>> > > >another.
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > The United Nations could also interfere if they want. Such kind of
>>>>>>> law
>>>>>>> > should
>>>>>>> > > >be completely abolished. Today is Sakineh imprisoned and condemned to
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>> > death,
>>>>>>> > > >tomorrow will be another Sakineh and the thing will go on and on.
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > If there is not a strong international interference, I consider
>>>>>>> almost
>>>>>>> > > >impossible a diplomatic solution for this problem to be found. If
>>>>>>> Iran
>>>>>>> > opens one
>>>>>>> > > >exception, eventually they would need to change their law. And when
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> > has to
>>>>>>> > > >do with Islamic laws, is as if someone puts the hand in a "bag full
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> > cats".
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > So such a hope regarding Brazil and Turkey to find a diplomatic
>>>>>>> > solution, are
>>>>>>> > > >vain in my opinion. In my opinion all the internati_onal community
>>>>>>> > should raise
>>>>>>> > > >their voice and interfere, als_o stating that such a law should be
>>>>>>> > abolished.
>>>>>>> > > >But unfortunately this wont happen, because there is no oil or money
>
>
>>>>>>> > involved.
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > See the case of Aung San Suu kyi, years imprisoned by the military
>>>>>>> > regime or
>>>>>>> > > >Burma. Nothing was done to help the people of Burma or to release
>>>>>>> her,
>>>>>>> > except
>>>>>>> > > >endless diplomatic talks which resulted probably in the fact that she
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > is still
>>>>>>> > > >alive.
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > Anyway I will send some e-mails to some members of the Brazilian
>>>>>>> > Section I
>>>>>>> > > >know.
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > Erica
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > --- In _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>>>> _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _)
>
>
>>>>>>> > _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) __theos-talk@o7_CqMsNWCgwKzJW2mMhpqD9CLryd-SnWJ4LxHGneGA3UYTcr-iWM0UWo1bL4BZrqhDlwqIgaJARjOFneXRNHKXcnA.yahoo.invalidm _
>>>>>>> (mailto: _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) __ (mailto:_ (
>>>>>>>http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _ (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) _) _ ,
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>> "nhcareyta" <nhcareyta@> wrote:
>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > Dear Erica
>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > Yes, that is correct. That is why I asked whether there are some
>>>>>>> > wealthy
>>>>>>> > > >Adyar Society Brazilian members able to bring extra influence on
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> > > >President, perhaps to make another, more strident attempt.
>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > That would surely be Theosophy in action.
>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > Regards
>>>>>>> > > > > Nigel
>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > --- In _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>>>> _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _)
>
>
>>>>>>> > _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) __theos-talk@o7_CqMsNWCgwKzJW2mMhpqD9CLryd-SnWJ4LxHGneGA3UYTcr-iWM0UWo1bL4BZrqhDlwqIgaJARjOFneXRNHKXcnA.yahoo.invalidm _
>>>>>>> (mailto: _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) __ (mailto:_ (
>>>>>>>http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _ (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) _) _ ,
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>> "Erica L. Georgiades"
>>>>>>> > <eletzerich@>
>>>>>>> > > wrote:
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > Yesterday I read on Washington Post that, Lula the Brazilian
>>>>>>> > President,
>>>>>>> > > >already
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > requested to the President of Iran to release her and give her
>>>>>>> > asylum in
>>>>>>> > > >Brazil.
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > The request of the President of Brazil was denied.
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > Erica
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > ________________________________
>>>>>>> > > > > > From: nhcareyta <nhcareyta@>
>>>>>>> > > > > > To: _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>>>> _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _)
>
>
>>>>>>> > _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) __theos-talk@o7_CqMsNWCgwKzJW2mMhpqD9CLryd-SnWJ4LxHGneGA3UYTcr-iWM0UWo1bL4BZrqhDlwqIgaJARjOFneXRNHKXcnA.yahoo.invalidm _
>>>>>>> (mailto: _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) __ (mailto:_ (
>>>>>>>http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _ (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) )
>>>>>>> > > > > > Sent: Thu, August 5, 2010 3:32:23 PM
>>>>>>> > > > > > Subject: theos-talk Action needed
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > Dear All
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > Perhaps some wealthy Adyar Society Brazilian members can bring
>>>>>>> > additional
>>>>>>> > > > > > pressure to bear on their President to address this outrageous
>>>>>>> > issue?
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > "Dear Friends,
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > Global pressure on Iran has saved Sakineh from death by stoning,
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>> > but within
>>>>>>> > > >days
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > she could still be hanged. More pressure from leaders in Brazil
>
>
>>>>>>> > and Turkey,
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > Iran's allies, are Sakineh's last hope. Donate below to fund an
>
>
>>>>>>> > emergency
>>>>>>> > > >ad
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > campaign in Brazil and Turkey in the next 72 hours:
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > Sakineh Ashtiani could be executed for adultery in Iran in the
>>>>>>> > next few
>>>>>>> > > >days,
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > but two men could still save her -- the leaders of Brazil and
>>>>>>> > Turkey.
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > President Lula and Prime Minister Erdoğan are powerful
>>>>>>> allies
>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>> > > >mediators
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > with Iran w_ho enjoy great respect there, and both countries
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> > condemned
>>>>>>> > > >the
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > case. Now, we need to push them to deploy all their diplomatic
>>>>>>> > forces and
>>>>>>> > > > > > persuade Iran to free Sakineh and stop stoning forever.
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > Avaaz is launching an emergency ad campaign in influential
>>>>>>> > newspapers in
>>>>>>> > > >Turkey
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > and Brazil urging them to press Iran for clemency and justice.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>> > ads will
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > deliver our half-million strong petition, reach political
>>>>>>> circles
>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>> > > >directly
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > appeal to Lula's and Erdoğan's leadership and moral
>>>>>>> > authority. If
>>>>>>> > > >5,000 of
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > us donate even a small amount in the next 72 hours, we'll make a
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>> > powerful
>>>>>>> > > > > > statement before it's too late. This may be Sakineh's last hope
>
>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> > click
>>>>>>> > > >here to
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > chip in:
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > _> _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>>>> _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _)
>
>
>>>>>>> > __ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>>>> _ https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl__ (
>>>>>>>https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl_ ) _ (_
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>>>> _ https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl_ (
>>>>>>>https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl ) )
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > Sakineh's sentence is a farcical travesty of justice. She was
>>>>>>> > sentenced to
>>>>>>> > > >death
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > by stoning for allegedly having relations with other men --
>>>>>>> years
>>>>>>> > after her
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > husband had passed away, despite stoning having been outlawed in
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>> > Iran, and
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > despite her not being able to speak the language of her trial.
>>>>>>> Her
>>>>>>> > two
>>>>>>> > > >children
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > launched a campaign to save her life, and generated a worldwide
>
>
>>>>>>> > uproar,
>>>>>>> > > > > > including over 554,000 Avaaz members. Feeling the pressure, the
>
>
>>>>>>> > Iranian
>>>>>>> > > > > > government revoked the stoning, but the execution sentence
>>>>>>> stands.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > Tension has been rising in Iran since the Sakineh case gained
>>>>>>> > attention --
>>>>>>> > > >the
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > regime has threatened to arrest her children for speaking out
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> > has
>>>>>>> > > >issued an
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > arrest warrant against Sakineh's lawyer. He has now gone into
>>>>>>> > hiding and
>>>>>>> > > >his
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > family-members have been rounded-up.
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > But Lula and Erdoğan have great respect in Iran and can
>>>>>>> > influence the
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > regime. And they listen to us. Lula had said that he would not
>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>> > involved
>>>>>>> > > >in
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > this case. But after an aide brought his attention to the
>>>>>>> massive
>>>>>>> > online
>>>>>>> > > > > > campaign, he changed his mind, offering Sakineh asylum and
>>>>>>> > prompting
>>>>>>> > > >Iranian
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > authorities to announce that the case would be quickly
>>>>>>> resolved.
>>>>>>> > We know
>>>>>>> > > >Lula
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > listens to Avaaz campaigns -- in the last year, despite
>>>>>>> powerful
>>>>>>> > > >opposition,
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > members in Brazil have helped persuade Lula to sign off on a law
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > to protect
>>>>>>> > > >the
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > Amazon and a bold anti-corruption law.
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > During the last two weeks, over 554,000 of us have signed the
>>>>>>> > petition to
>>>>>>> > > >Save
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > Sakineh and end stoning in Iran. We only have days left to
>>>>>>> > persu_ade Lula
>>>>>>> > > >and
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > Erdoğan to act -- and it may be our last chance to save
>>>>>>> > Sakineh. Let's
>>>>>>> > > >each
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > pitch in a small amount and _make sure they hear our call to
>>>>>>> > leadership:
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>>>> _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _)
>
>
>>>>>>> > __ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>>>> _ https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl__ (
>>>>>>>https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl_ ) _ (_
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>>>> _ https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl_ (
>>>>>>>https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl ) _)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > _
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > > > > > Sakineh's case has outraged the entire world by the sheer scale
>
>
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> > its
>>>>>>> > > >brutal,
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > nonsensical injustice. But in our fight for one woman we make a
>
>
>>>>>>> > powerful
>>>>>>> > > > > > statement about women, and people, everywhere. In standing up
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> > one
>>>>>>> > > >person, we
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > stand up for everyone's right to justice.
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > Sakineh's children's have sent out a last plea: "Do not allow
>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>> > nightmare
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > become a reality, Today, when nearly all options have reached
>>>>>>> > dead-ends, we
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > resort to you. Please help our mother return home!" Click here
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> > answer
>>>>>>> > > >their
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > call, and get Erdoğan and Lula to do the same:
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>>>> _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _)
>
>
>>>>>>> > __ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>>>> _ https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl__ (
>>>>>>>https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl_ ) _ (_
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>>>> _ https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl_ (
>>>>>>>https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl ) _)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > _
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > With hope and determination,
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > Alice, Pascal, Alice W, Ricken, David, and the Avaaz Team
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > SOURCES:
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > The Guardian, "Iran stoning woman offered asylum by Brazil's
>>>>>>> > President
>>>>>>> > > >Lula":
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>>>> _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _)
>
>
>>>>>>> > __ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>>>> _ http://www.avaaz.org/guardian_sakineh_article__ (
>>>>>>>http://www.avaaz.org/guardian_sakineh_article_ ) _ (_
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _
>>>>>>>http://www.avaaz.org/guardian_sakineh_article_
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ( http://www.avaaz.org/guardian_sakineh_article ) _) _ "
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _)
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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