Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven Strategy
Aug 12, 2010 09:29 AM
by M. Sufilight
Dear Cass and friends
My views are:
So you are am member here, and do not know what it all originally was about?
How saddening.
Allright it might be a good idea to forward the Original Programe as it was given in 1875-1891 - when its main co-founder lived.
In the below *** A ***, *** B *** and *** C *** must be views as beloning to the Original Programe of The Theosophical Society in 1875-1891. The primary text must be *** B *** since it was written latest and written when the The Theosophical Society according to the main founder H. P. Blavatsky - already had deteriorated. Others will claim that *** A *** is the primary one. *** C *** must be considered to be of secondary importance and is merely posted here so the readers more easily can pitcture the changes since 1891 until 1905 and later until today - as given in *** D *** and *** E ***.
*** A ***
The Original Programe of the Theosophical Society was given here
(I recommend that one read it carefully and if in need consult various references):
ORIGINAL PROGRAME MANUSCRIPT - 1886 (BCW, Vol. VII, p. 145)
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v7/yxxxx_019.htm
*** B ***
Preamble of the Theosophical Society - october 1875
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/gfkforum/ourdir.htm#Preamble%20of%20the%20T.S.
*** C ***
CONSTITUTION AND RULES
OF
THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY
As Revised in Session of the General Council,
all the Section being represented,
at Adyar, December 27, 1890.
The Theosophist - January 1891
http://www.global-theosophy.net/ts_constitution_rules.php
*** D ***
Full Text Of The International Rules And Regulations
MEMORANDUM OF ASSOCIATION, ETC.
MEMORANDUM OF ASSOCIATION AND RULES AND REGULATIONS
1997 as amended 2005, 2006
CERTIFICATE OF INCORPORATION
NO. 2 of 1905
http://joomla.theosophyforward.com/2009/06/full-text-of-the-international-rules-and-regulations-memorandum-of-association/
---- or ----
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/his/rules.htm
*** E ***
THE BYLAWS OF
THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY
IN AMERICA
Revised as authorized by Referendum, June 2010
http://www.theosophical.org/local_groups/2010_%20Bylaws.pdf
The first link *** A *** - must necessarily be the basis - for all work which dare to use the name the Theosophical Society or to claim its background derives from the Theosophical Society - or even H. P. Blavatsky. If anyone disagree on this let us know why.
The second link *** B *** show how the original attempt was formulated. And by comparing *** B *** with *** A *** one will discover a few differences nut not many. I follow *** B *** as the primary one - assisted by *** A *** and *** C ***. Today they will of course have to be reformulated.
The third link is the CONSTITUTION AND RULES OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY as they were when H. P. Blavatsky still lived, and shortly before her - official - physical departure from this planet. After she died, various paragraphs and formulations of aims and limitations have been changed or even deleted in the Constitution and Rules of The Theosophical Society. And no clairification has been given as to why such changes - was necessary - and whether they were in agreement with the Original Programes intentions and altruism as such. By comparing *** A ***, *** B *** and *** C *** with *** D *** one will be able to spot various very interesting differences. One of them is that the paragraph (Article XIV) on political involvement has been deleted or changed as shown in *** E *** (by using the word "substantial").
- - -
Now this forums are officially to newcomers only giving the following input as its aims so far:
"Description
Discussion on topics regarding Theosophy (or theosophy) and its realization in the modern world. A forum completely independent of control by established theosophical organizations."
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/
Not this can only be said to be an inadequate formulation, if one should have the Original Programe of the Theosophical Society (1875-1891) in mind.
The questions which are still lingering are therefore:
Should it be in accordance with the Original Programe of the Theosophical Society as it was given by HPB and others in 1875-1891? Or should it deviate from it, and if so why and in what manner?
If the moderators of the forum refuse to answer on these question, I will conclude that silence is the answer - and its impact will follow the - silencers!
- - -
The same questions are also offered to any group calling it self theosophical or claims to derive its teachings from The Theosophical Society and perhaps even H. P. Blavatsky.
Those I will ask:
Are your organisation in accordance with the Original Programe of the Theosophical Society as it was given by HPB and others in 1875-1891? Or is it deviating from it, and if so why and in what manner?
If the members of such organisations - openly - refuse to answer on these question, I will conclude that silence is the answer - and its impact will follow the - silencers!
- - -
I am waiting for the answers...or the silence.
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Cass Silva
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven Strategy
I don't even know what the original programme was!
Cass
>
>From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@Prd56lEIwCF8c0KSg9Z9FuFrLXQHQ0HKzCyreTRwhc0TwmXUdPXq1JJqPNJpHJzpvIHdiMvd2Vbm_ZvbJRjtHAdB.yahoo.invalid>
>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Thu, 12 August, 2010 4:34:44 AM
>Subject: Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven
>Strategy
>
>
>Dear Cass and friends
>
>My views are:
>
>I do not think I have expressed any issue with the moderators of this forum
>except - asking the question about whether it seeks to be governed by the
>Original Programe as it was given by HPB and others in 1875-1891 - and whether
>they seek to deviate from it - and if so in what manner, and why?
>
>If you are seeking to involve the forum and the Original Programe with politics
>- please state your reasons why this can be said to be in accordance with the
>Original Programe as it was given in 1875-1891 by HPB and others?
>
>M. Sufilight
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Cass Silva
>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 2:53 AM
>Subject: Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven
>Strategy
>
>Morten,
>
>I am referring to the politics of global inhumanity to man. That you and others
>have issue with the administrators, particularly on content, censorship and/or
>advocacy of individual past theosophists continues to ignite the politics which
>you say should not be part of the theosophical agenda.
>
>>
>>Can you answer what your real core issue is? What is your agenda? If TS Adyar
>>opposes your personal principles, you should know, that any attempt to bring it
>
>>into line with your thinking is futile. One cannot change a hyena into a
>>leopard. To expect those that see value in the teachings of Besant, Leadbeater,
>
>>Bailey, Krishnamurti to abandon them because they do not adhere to Blavatsky's
>>teachings is naive. Theosophy, like it or not, built upon the acceptance of
>>their works, rightly or wrongly, even with its christian bent, and to now expect
>>
>>an admission of error in teaching would for them mean to admit the infallibility
>>
>>of theosophy and its administrators. To place Blavatsky as the one and only
>>true advocate of Theosophy would require gargantuan moral courage to do so,
>>and my personal belief is that there are no gargantuan personalities with this
>>strength of character, nor is there any desire to change the status quo.
>>
>>I am hoping that Theos Talk was not established as the David to overthrow the
>>Goliath Theosophy but as a forum for anyone interested in discussing the
>>teachings of Blavatsky, Besant, Leadbeater, Krishnamurti, Bailey, etc etc, pro
>>or against. It is the individual that must decide which teacher they wish to
>>follow. Yes, it irks me, that Blavatsky has been given secondary status at
>>Adyar, but she herself, walked away, without any attempt to discredit those she
>
>>left behind. We have the same choice. That Adyar is the flagship for
>>Theosophy but not for Blavatsky is not our concern.
>>
>>
>>Blavatsky stated that all theosophists should rid themselves of its priests can
>
>>only be accomplished by individuals that see priests in the belfry. If they do
>>not, then kicking the horse will only result in the kicker living with a
>>very sore leg!
>>
>>Cass
>>
>>
>>
>>From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@Prd56lEIwCF8c0KSg9Z9FuFrLXQHQ0HKzCyreTRwhc0TwmXUdPXq1JJqPNJpHJzpvIHdiMvd2Vbm_ZvbJRjtHAdB.yahoo.invalid>
>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>Sent: Wed, 11 August, 2010 2:40:55 AM
>>Subject: Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven
>>Strategy
>>
>>
>>Ordinary lawmaking politics was as you know not a part of the Original Programe
>
>>in the TS in 1875-1891.
>>Even later I believe Jinarjadasa had to stop political articles in the
>>theosophical Magazine. But about that time, Annie Besant and others had already
>
>>begun to get the TS hopelessly entangled with the political party the Indian
>>National Congress - virtually a deathblow to the theopshical doctrines and the
>>frame of the Original Programe given in 1875-1891 in the Constitution and
>Rules.
>>
>>So I will have to ask you, why you insist on putting emphasis on lies and decit
>
>>- instead of seeking to end the strifes of the world religions - and - the study
>>
>>of the INNER man as the original programe aimed at?
>>Altruism is central to the original programe of the TS, should this now be
>>exchanged with something else - and the original TS be called a political
>>organisation?
>>
>>M. Sufilight
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Cass Silva
>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 3:21 AM
>>Subject: Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven
>>Strategy
>>
>>Hi Morten,
>>I'm over all the internal politics - but I believe we should be addressing
>>global politics from a TS perspective.
>>
>>Cass
>>
>>>
>>>From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@Prd56lEIwCF8c0KSg9Z9FuFrLXQHQ0HKzCyreTRwhc0TwmXUdPXq1JJqPNJpHJzpvIHdiMvd2Vbm_ZvbJRjtHAdB.yahoo.invalid>
>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>>Sent: Tue, 10 August, 2010 3:46:01 AM
>>>Subject: Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven
>>>Strategy
>>>
>>>
>>>Are theosophists of late being concerned with politics?
>>>In the old days the Original Programe was against it. Why this deviation today
>
>
>>>year 2010?
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Govert Schuller
>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>>Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 6:27 PM
>>>Subject: Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven
>>>Strategy
>>>
>>>Dear John,
>>>
>>>Yes, the Schuman/Bezemov material is very revealing. His interview with Edward
>
>
>>>Griffin is also available on youtube and google videos.
>>>
>>>
>>>The fact that he worked as a KGB agent in India might be of interest to
>>>Theosophists.
>>>
>>>
>>>http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2307456730142665916#
>>>
>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_xdBnFPqOI&feature=PlayList&p=4CDAB99FAB5980BA&index=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>BTW, Griffin started recently Project Red Pill:
>>>http://www.realityzone.com/prp.html
>>>
>>>Govert
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Augoeides-222@FjlkwKaknM5EkR_58n8XJWz__wD6PThad_6AE0SijuJcSG-OsUHTmSex5BXcckE-2RVVvsw3yYBxAFHqAqmQ2BPe.yahoo.invalid
>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>>Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 12:10 AM
>>>Subject: Re: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven
>>>Strategy
>>>
>>>Govert,
>>>Thanks much for the important posts from you and your links to your articles. I
>>
>>
>>>have bookmarked alomost every single link in them and will be reading for
>>>months! I especially liked the New Zealand Researcher Interview about the
>>>history of the Chicago Communists party and ilk, I was born and raised there (on
>>>
>>>
>>>the South side) so i can really relate to it all. I did notice that he made no
>
>
>>>mention of that mentor Saul David Lewinsky and the book "Rule for Radicals- A
>>>Pragmatic Primary for Practical Radicals". Some of the things mentioned have
>>>taken place and become fact. Also I skimmed the titles about the G20 and a new
>
>
>>>Intl. Currency, the Admin. has in it's new Statute created a new Dept. named the
>>>
>>>
>>>"Office of the Currency" which will monitor and regulate the new social order
>>>"Transformation. Also mention was made of certain "code words" that have been
>>>used. The acceptance speech was made and over his shoulder was the Greek "Temple
>>>
>>>
>>>of Apollo" a serect display especially created for the "Apollo Alliance"
>>>benefit.
>>>
>>>
>>>Anatoliy Galitsyn isn't the only worthy former KGB there is another thta has
>>>extremely important instructive Video's online "Thomas Schumann" alias "Yuri
>>>Bezmenov" an expatriate has 10 video's online that instruct about the cardinal
>
>
>>>Stages and Elements used for the conquest and revoluntionary objectives. Google
>>
>>
>>>or Yahoo video search "Thomas Schuman - "Secrets of Communism" and in watching
>
>
>>>relate to the current actions of the now and the last several decades.
>>>
>>>
>>>In Schuman's videos describe Four Critical Stages of Revoluntrionary Change that
>>>
>>>
>>>are required to successfully Communize a Nation:
>>>
>>>
>>>Thomas Schumann KGB Propaganda Expert described four stages that must be
>>>accomplished
>>>
>>>
>>>Stages of Subversion:
>>>
>>>1.Demoralization 15-25 years maturation period
>>>2.Destabilization
>>>3.Crisis
>>>4. Normalization( the 1948 Czech process)
>>>
>>>A. The "Elements " utilized to progress the goal are:
>>>
>>>Activism using:
>>>1. Religion - The Christian - Marxist Projectas one example
>>>2.Education
>>>3. Social Life
>>>4.Power Structure
>>>5. Labor Relations - Unions
>>>6.Law and Order
>>>
>>>Yuri Bezmenov -
>>>>>>http://www.4shared.com/file/79865078/dbf057bs/World_Thought_Police_Yuri_Bezmenov.html<<<
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>Muckity.org<<< is a fantastic tool for discovering interactive relational
>>>>>>mapping between persons:
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>2008 Obama Presidential Campaign
>>>
>>>>>>http://www.muckety.com/2008-Barack-Obama-presidential-campaign/5004664.muckety<<<
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>@008 & 2004 Senate Campaigns
>>>
>>>>>>http://www.muckety.com/Query?name=Obama+Campaign&prev=Obama+Campaign&SearchResult=5029144&SearchResult=5004664&graph=MucketyMap<<<
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>George Soros
>>>
>>>>>>http://www.muckety.com/George-Soros/4166.muckety<<<
>>>
>>>The Truth about George Soros
>>>
>>>>>>http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=the+truth+about+george+soros&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=&aqi=<<<
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>John
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----s ,emtion have taken place and become From: "Govert
>>
>>
>>>Schuller" <schuller@jDGvRN-A2KCIMM6oHBIosC_TrIJ56aixsLaGvzAi6JVFhrnayploCFL7WuknKctUUncuHYQrt-7Hh-zU.yahoo.invalid>
>>>
>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>>Sent: Sunday, August 8, 2010 10:13:29 AM
>>>Subject: theos-talk The Angleton-Golytsin Thesis and the Cloward-Piven Strategy
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Dear John,
>>>
>>>Very glad to see a fellow referring to the Golytsin thesis. I always thought it
>>
>>
>>>was a most reasonable and fruitfull framework to evaluate world politics and
>>>economics.
>>>
>>>
>>>It basically states that the Russians and Chinese have been strategically linked
>>>
>>>
>>>since the Chinese communist takeover in 1949 and have been deceiving the West
>>>ever since. Glasnost, Perestroika and the liberalization of East Europe were
>>>just theatrics in service of a larger plan.
>>>
>>>
>>>But this deception could only have been pulled off by a fifth column in the West
>>>
>>>
>>>of fellow travellers, hidden agents and especially think tanks like the Council
>>
>>
>>>on Foreign Relations.
>>>
>>>
>>>Within this framework it also makes sense to evaluate Obama's policies as
>>>implementing the so-called Cloward-Piven Strategy of intensifying crises to
>>>justify the change of society into a more socialist mold.
>>>
>>>
>>>As I've stated before, all those in the Krishnamurti, Theosophical and Ascended
>>
>>
>>>Master movements should take this very serious.
>>>
>>>
>>>But, don't take my word and do your homework. I have assembled throughout the
>>>years relevant articles and sources and introduced them with my own
>>>understanding of the many complex issues involved.
>>>
>>>
>>>The Abiding Communist Threat in its Open and Hidden Manifestations
>>>http://www.alpheus.org/html/articles/parapolitics/commiethreat.htm
>>>
>>>The Abiding Threat: The Ongoing Validity of the Angleton-Golytsin Thesis
>>>http://www.alpheus.org/html/articles/parapolitics/AbidingThreat2009.htm
>>>
>>>Sliding into VGGD (Very Great Global Depression)
>>>http://www.alpheus.org/html/Economy/SlidingIntoVGGD.htm
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Augoeides-222@FjlkwKaknM5EkR_58n8XJWz__wD6PThad_6AE0SijuJcSG-OsUHTmSex5BXcckE-2RVVvsw3yYBxAFHqAqmQ2BPe.yahoo.invalid
>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>>Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 12:17 AM
>>>Subject: Re: theos-talk Re: Action needed
>>>
>>>Chuck,
>>>Well, there are many views about why things happen. Nelson Mandela was a
>>>communist revoluntionary who organized and promoted the overthrow of the
>>>establishment
>>>
>>>government and was jailed for it, later, due to activism he won his release and
>>
>>
>>>got a Nobel "Peace" Prize. Ghandi was primarily successful in terms of the
>>>British due the the fact that they possessed integrity, character, and strong
>>>moral and ethical tenets which disarmed them from using the tactics that Jengis
>>
>>
>>>Khan applied , Stalin applied, Mao applied or Hitler applied. In some case
>>>virtue is a deficit that insures defeat when facing an unprincipled enemy. As
>>>for good old Gorby, it ain't what is seemed to be. Why in the world did the US
>
>
>>>Gov. host good old Gorby and provide free offices at the Military base named the
>>>
>>>
>>>Presidio here in California? He created his American Fondation that hooked up
>>>with a multitude of activists groups here. Read "New Lies for Old" and "The
>>>Peretroika Deception" by Anatoliy Galitsyn, former KBG and Head of soviet
>>>Espionage for an eye opener on the real game.Remeber that Newsweek issue with
>>>the cover that proclaimed "We are All Socialists Now!"??? Lol
>>>
>>>
>>>John
>>>
>>>---- Original Message -----
>>>From: "charles cosimano" < Drpsionic@vxPl_8s8jeiQsrNXdPhRjmGnrqEIy8ZNRddq8YA7p9jXs00wE4fUHJm60Ve-Q4tXt67oJCyisbVBDLM.yahoo.invalid >
>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>>Sent: Saturday, August 7, 2010 5:55:06 PM
>>>Subject: Re: theos-talk Re: Action needed
>>>
>>>But those were actually the result of weakness on the part of the other side.
>>>The South Africans did not kill Nelson Mandela out of hand. The British did not
>>
>>
>>>simply shoot Ghandi. And the Berlin Wall fell because the Soviet Empire could
>>>not survive and Gorbachev lost his nerve.
>>>
>>>
>>>Chuck the Heretic
>>>
>>>http://www.charlescosimano.com
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: nhcareyta < nhcareyta@36aSlMCaXZLYHyMd-FSkl7EIHE4vPi0Yy4pPwDvUK6QH6F5vVvmJUH1jPwcop8Vlxxlxs-JN9rivJuoVmQ.yahoo.invalid >
>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>>Sent: Sat, Aug 7, 2010 10:39 am
>>>Subject: theos-talk Re: Action needed
>>>
>>>"Never" is a long time. Many extraordinary and inconceivable changes have
>>>occurred just in our lifetime.
>>>
>>>
>>>The ending of apartheid in South Africa; bringing down the Berlin wall; the
>>>British leaving India.
>>>
>>>
>>>For whatever the impetus, these were monumental changes, thought impossible up
>
>
>>>until the time they occurred.
>>>
>>>
>>>And in any event, what's the alternative? Do nothing, say nothing?
>>>
>>>I think not, but granted the action must be as wise as we can determine.
>>>
>>>Never surrender to tyrany...never.
>>>
>>>--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , Drpsionic@... wrote:
>>>>
>>>> And they still may never give a damn. How do you get past the mute button?
>>>>
>>>> Chuck the Heretic
>>>>
>>>> _www.charlescosimano.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In a message dated 8/6/2010 10:22:50 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
>>>> nhcareyta@... writes:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We wait a little longer, try a little harder...and never give up.
>>>>
>>>> --- In
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _
>>>> (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) , Drpsionic@ wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > And if the local constituents really don't give a damn?
>>>> >
>>>> > Chuck the Heretic
>>>> >
>>>> > www.charlescosimano.com
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > In a message dated 8/5/2010 6:20:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>>>> > nhcareyta@ writes:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Dear John, Erica and All
>>>> >
>>>> > Thank you for your responses and actions.
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks to the internet and its popularity these issues are now being
>>>> aired
>>>> > throughout the broader community.
>>>> > Similarly, migration and asylum seeking are bringing certain cultural
>>>> > differences to the attention of powerful western forces through
>>>> community
>>>> > outrage and protest.
>>>> > Already there are broad based, community discussions on highly sensitive
>>>> > cultural and religious practices. From female circumcision to the
>>>> wearing of
>>>> > the burka in all its forms, and from certain kinds of torture to
>>>> stonings,
>>>> > all these matters are now being discussed internationally with many
>>>> human
>>>> > rights groups increasing the task of community education and action.
>>>> > Community act_ion equates to votes and it will eventually take a
>>>> foolhardy
>>>> > western politician to ignore the voices of their local constituents.
>>>> > The west can then_ bring greater pressure to bear on recalcitrant
>>>> regimes.
>>>> >
>>>> > Of course politics and economics are powerful forces and yes, these are
>>>> > very early steps, but with the use of the internet and its opportunities
>>>> to
>>>> > act I can see the early signs of a broad based, international shift in
>>>> > consciousness, such as we have never seen before.
>>>> >
>>>> > Kind regards
>>>> > Nigel
>>>> >
>>>> > --- In
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_
>>
>>
>>
>>>> ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _) _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>
>
>>>> __theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _ (mailto: _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) __
>>>> > (mailto:_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _
>>
>>
>>
>>>> (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) ) , Augoeides-222@ wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Nigel,
>>>> > > There are even video's of stoning online on Google and Yahoo video's.
>>>> > There have been numerous articles in the last few years about retrograde
>>>> 6th
>>>> > century abominable punishments according the the conventions of Sharia
>>>> Law
>>>> > of Islamic faith . One was a young teenager who had relation with a boy
>>>> and
>>>> > they stoned her to death for the family "honor". There are Islamic
>>>> > fundamentalist Personal Channels on Justin.tv ("Raah") and a few others
>>>> that show
>>>> > poor victum's having their fingers cut off while being tightly held by
>>>> > several men, Men being led to a grassy area for decapitition and the
>>>> head
>>>> > proudly displayed sitting on the chest of the dead body. I posted a few
>>>> of the
>>>> > 'Family honor" murder articles on this forum a while back. I find these
>>>> > idea's, concepts, rationalizations and practices abhorrent, abominable
>>>> and
>>>> > psychotic abberation in this modern world of today. The Taliban are
>>>> perfect
>>>> > example of terrorist suppressive_ degenerate religionism and the Wa habi
>>>> of_
>>>> > Saudi Arabia was a mentor to them. In England they are requesting the
>>>> right
>>>> > to install Sharia Law parelell and eqeal to the British Justice
>>>> Institute
>>>> > itself. people never studied the History of conquest by "perfusion" and
>>>> > "suffusion" and population displacement that is evidenced in History as
>>>> a social
>>>> > passive technique long established and practiced. A best present time is
>>>> > China and Tibet where China is actively practising this historic method
>>>> with
>>>> > a vengeance. One morning in a future we may wake up to a dreadful
>>>> reality
>>>> > that slowly insidiously pervaded our social space and beingness, beware
>>>> my
>>>> > friends of greeks bearing gifts.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > John
>>>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > > From: "Erica L. Georgiades" <eletzerich@>
>>>> > > To: _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>> _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _) _
>>>> ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) __theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _ (mailto:
>>>>_theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) __
>>>>
>>>> > (mailto:_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _
>>
>>
>>
>>>> (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) _) _
>>>> > > Sent: Thursday, August 5, 2010 7:50:53 AM
>>>> > > Subject: Re: theos-talk Action needed
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Dear Nigel,
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Death by stoning because of adultery also exists in Afghanistan and
>>>> > Somalia.
>>>> > > From time to time I am signing petitions against such barbarism, this
>>>> is
>>>> > not the
>>>> > > first. I remember some years ago a similar case in Somalia, her name
>>>> was
>>>> > Aisho
>>>> > > ...dont remember the surname. And now Sakineh... the poor women has a
>>>> > son and
>>>> > > a daughter and is only 42 years old. Also I just read that in Iran
>>>> there
>>>> > is
>>>> > > also another 10 women waiting death-roll sentence, for the same
>>>> reason.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Erica
>>>> > >
>>>> > > ________________________________
>>>> > > From: nhcareyta < nhcareyta@ >
>>>> > > To: _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>> _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _) _
>>>> ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) __theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _ (mailto:
>>>>_theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) __
>>>>
>>>> > (mailto:_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _
>>
>>
>>
>>>> (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) _) _
>>>> > > Sent: Thu, August 5, 2010 5:21:19 PM
>>>> > > Subject: Re: theos-talk Action needed
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Dear Erica
>>>> > >
>>>> > > In spite of the considerable political considerations you mention, all
>>>> > of which
>>>> > > are accurate, there have been some quite remarkable social and
>>>> political
>>>> > changes
>>>> > > over recent times. Avaaz is one organisation making real headway in
>>>> some
>>>> > similar
>>>> > > situations, so all may not be lost.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > In any event, if we do nothing then certainly nothing will happen! So
>>>> > thank you
>>>> > > for contacting some of your fellow members. If everyone on t/talk does
>>>> > the same
>>>> > > a snowball reaction may occur.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Kind regards
>>>> > > Nigel
>>>> > >
>>>> > > --- In _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>> _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _) _
>>>> ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) __theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _ (mailto:
>>>>_theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) __
>>>>
>>>> > (mailto:_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _
>>
>>
>>
>>>> (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) ) , "Erica" <eletzerich@> wrote:
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Dear Nigel,
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > This is most barbarian thing, which is unacceptable. I think the
>>>> > matter is in
>>>> > > >fact an international matter and not only of influence of one country
>>>> > or
>>>> > > >another.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > The United Nations could also interfere if they want. Such kind of
>>>> law
>>>> > should
>>>> > > >be completely abolished. Today is Sakineh imprisoned and condemned to
>>>> > death,
>>>> > > >tomorrow will be another Sakineh and the thing will go on and on.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > If there is not a strong international interference, I consider
>>>> almost
>>>> > > >impossible a diplomatic solution for this problem to be found. If
>>>> Iran
>>>> > opens one
>>>> > > >exception, eventually they would need to change their law. And when
>>>> one
>>>> > has to
>>>> > > >do with Islamic laws, is as if someone puts the hand in a "bag full
>>>> of
>>>> > cats".
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > So such a hope regarding Brazil and Turkey to find a diplomatic
>>>> > solution, are
>>>> > > >vain in my opinion. In my opinion all the internati_onal community
>>>> > should raise
>>>> > > >their voice and interfere, als_o stating that such a law should be
>>>> > abolished.
>>>> > > >But unfortunately this wont happen, because there is no oil or money
>>>> > involved.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > See the case of Aung San Suu kyi, years imprisoned by the military
>>>> > regime or
>>>> > > >Burma. Nothing was done to help the people of Burma or to release
>>>> her,
>>>> > except
>>>> > > >endless diplomatic talks which resulted probably in the fact that she
>>>>
>>>> > is still
>>>> > > >alive.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Anyway I will send some e-mails to some members of the Brazilian
>>>> > Section I
>>>> > > >know.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Erica
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > --- In _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>> _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _)
>>>> > _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) __theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _
>>>> (mailto: _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) __ (mailto:_ (
>>>>http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>
>>>> _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _ (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) _) _ ,
>>>> "nhcareyta" <nhcareyta@> wrote:
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > Dear Erica
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > Yes, that is correct. That is why I asked whether there are some
>>>> > wealthy
>>>> > > >Adyar Society Brazilian members able to bring extra influence on
>>>> their
>>>> > > >President, perhaps to make another, more strident attempt.
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > That would surely be Theosophy in action.
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > Regards
>>>> > > > > Nigel
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > --- In _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>> _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _)
>>>> > _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) __theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _
>>>> (mailto: _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) __ (mailto:_ (
>>>>http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>
>>>> _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _ (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) _) _ ,
>>>> "Erica L. Georgiades"
>>>> > <eletzerich@>
>>>> > > wrote:
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Yesterday I read on Washington Post that, Lula the Brazilian
>>>> > President,
>>>> > > >already
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > requested to the President of Iran to release her and give her
>>>> > asylum in
>>>> > > >Brazil.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > The request of the President of Brazil was denied.
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Erica
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > ________________________________
>>>> > > > > > From: nhcareyta <nhcareyta@>
>>>> > > > > > To: _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>> _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _)
>>>> > _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) __theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _
>>>> (mailto: _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) __ (mailto:_ (
>>>>http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>
>>>> _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com _ (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) )
>>>> > > > > > Sent: Thu, August 5, 2010 3:32:23 PM
>>>> > > > > > Subject: theos-talk Action needed
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Dear All
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Perhaps some wealthy Adyar Society Brazilian members can bring
>>>> > additional
>>>> > > > > > pressure to bear on their President to address this outrageous
>>>> > issue?
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > "Dear Friends,
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Global pressure on Iran has saved Sakineh from death by stoning,
>>>> > but within
>>>> > > >days
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > she could still be hanged. More pressure from leaders in Brazil
>>>> > and Turkey,
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > Iran's allies, are Sakineh's last hope. Donate below to fund an
>>>> > emergency
>>>> > > >ad
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > campaign in Brazil and Turkey in the next 72 hours:
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Sakineh Ashtiani could be executed for adultery in Iran in the
>>>> > next few
>>>> > > >days,
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > but two men could still save her -- the leaders of Brazil and
>>>> > Turkey.
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > President Lula and Prime Minister Erdoğan are powerful
>>>> allies
>>>> > and
>>>> > > >mediators
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > with Iran w_ho enjoy great respect there, and both countries
>>>> have
>>>> > condemned
>>>> > > >the
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > case. Now, we need to push them to deploy all their diplomatic
>>>> > forces and
>>>> > > > > > persuade Iran to free Sakineh and stop stoning forever.
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Avaaz is launching an emergency ad campaign in influential
>>>> > newspapers in
>>>> > > >Turkey
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > and Brazil urging them to press Iran for clemency and justice.
>>>> The
>>>> > ads will
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > deliver our half-million strong petition, reach political
>>>> circles
>>>> > and
>>>> > > >directly
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > appeal to Lula's and Erdoğan's leadership and moral
>>>> > authority. If
>>>> > > >5,000 of
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > us donate even a small amount in the next 72 hours, we'll make a
>>>> > powerful
>>>> > > > > > statement before it's too late. This may be Sakineh's last hope
>>>> --
>>>> > click
>>>> > > >here to
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > chip in:
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > _> _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>> _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _)
>>>> > __ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>> _ https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl__ (
>>>>https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl_ ) _ (_
>>>>
>>>> ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>> _ https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl_ (
>>>>https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl ) )
>>>>
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Sakineh's sentence is a farcical travesty of justice. She was
>>>> > sentenced to
>>>> > > >death
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > by stoning for allegedly having relations with other men --
>>>> years
>>>> > after her
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > husband had passed away, despite stoning having been outlawed in
>>>> > Iran, and
>>>> > >
>>>> > > > > > despite her not being able to speak the language of her trial.
>>>> Her
>>>> > two
>>>> > > >children
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > launched a campaign to save her life, and generated a worldwide
>>>> > uproar,
>>>> > > > > > including over 554,000 Avaaz members. Feeling the pressure, the
>>>> > Iranian
>>>> > > > > > government revoked the stoning, but the execution sentence
>>>> stands.
>>>> >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Tension has been rising in Iran since the Sakineh case gained
>>>> > attention --
>>>> > > >the
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > regime has threatened to arrest her children for speaking out
>>>> and
>>>> > has
>>>> > > >issued an
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > arrest warrant against Sakineh's lawyer. He has now gone into
>>>> > hiding and
>>>> > > >his
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > family-members have been rounded-up.
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > But Lula and Erdoğan have great respect in Iran and can
>>>> > influence the
>>>> > >
>>>> > > > > > regime. And they listen to us. Lula had said that he would not
>>>> get
>>>> > involved
>>>> > > >in
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > this case. But after an aide brought his attention to the
>>>> massive
>>>> > online
>>>> > > > > > campaign, he changed his mind, offering Sakineh asylum and
>>>> > prompting
>>>> > > >Iranian
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > authorities to announce that the case would be quickly
>>>> resolved.
>>>> > We know
>>>> > > >Lula
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > listens to Avaaz campaigns -- in the last year, despite
>>>> powerful
>>>> > > >opposition,
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > members in Brazil have helped persuade Lula to sign off on a law
>>>>
>>>> > to protect
>>>> > > >the
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > Amazon and a bold anti-corruption law.
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > During the last two weeks, over 554,000 of us have signed the
>>>> > petition to
>>>> > > >Save
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > Sakineh and end stoning in Iran. We only have days left to
>>>> > persu_ade Lula
>>>> > > >and
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > Erdoğan to act -- and it may be our last chance to save
>>>> > Sakineh. Let's
>>>> > > >each
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > pitch in a small amount and _make sure they hear our call to
>>>> > leadership:
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>> _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _)
>>>> > __ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>> _ https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl__ (
>>>>https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl_ ) _ (_
>>>>
>>>> ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>> _ https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl_ (
>>>>https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl ) _)
>>>>
>>>> > _
>>>> > > > > >
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > Sakineh's case has outraged the entire world by the sheer scale
>>>> of
>>>> > its
>>>> > > >brutal,
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > nonsensical injustice. But in our fight for one woman we make a
>>>> > powerful
>>>> > > > > > statement about women, and people, everywhere. In standing up
>>>> for
>>>> > one
>>>> > > >person, we
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > stand up for everyone's right to justice.
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Sakineh's children's have sent out a last plea: "Do not allow
>>>> our
>>>> > nightmare
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > become a reality, Today, when nearly all options have reached
>>>> > dead-ends, we
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > resort to you. Please help our mother return home!" Click here
>>>> to
>>>> > answer
>>>> > > >their
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > call, and get Erdoğan and Lula to do the same:
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>> _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _)
>>>> > __ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>> _ https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl__ (
>>>>https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl_ ) _ (_
>>>>
>>>> ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>> _ https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl_ (
>>>>https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl ) _)
>>>>
>>>> > _
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > With hope and determination,
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Alice, Pascal, Alice W, Ricken, David, and the Avaaz Team
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > SOURCES:
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > The Guardian, "Iran stoning woman offered asylum by Brazil's
>>>> > President
>>>> > > >Lula":
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>> _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _)
>>>> > __ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>> _ http://www.avaaz.org/guardian_sakineh_article__ (
>>>>http://www.avaaz.org/guardian_sakineh_article_ ) _ (_
>>>>
>>>> ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _
>>>>http://www.avaaz.org/guardian_sakineh_article_
>>>>
>>>> ( http://www.avaaz.org/guardian_sakineh_article ) _) _ "
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> > _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _ http://www.charlescosimano.com/_
>>
>>
>>
>>>> ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _)
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
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