Theos-Talk Archives (August 2010 Message tt00069)

Dear freinds

My views are:

Cass wrote:
"What I think is that all of these people read and built on what others that 
preceded them had stated.  That's fine, but what rails me is that they never 
give credit to others and make out it is their own original idea."

M. Sufilight says:
I agree so very much.

Yes. Krishnamurti failed too much in givning other ancient teachers respect and sort of deleted the past and its importance with regard to where he and others were at the time he lectured.
Eckhart Tolle partly has the same problem. He avoid - an open use of - comparative studying - and thereby avoid seeking to create a synthesis teaching. Instead he, just like Krishnamurti claims that THEIR very own teaching is the SYNTHESIS of all SYNTHESIS - because it is based on logic -(their logic.) 
- Such teachings has clearly a tendency of secterian behaviour. 

- But where they gain from avoiding the use of - loaded phrases from various religious terminologies, they lack a real synthesis teaching so to end the strifes between the worlds religions. And this was what HPB emphasised all the time. This is one of the most important difference I have discovered between HPB and TS (1875-1891) versus Krishnamurti + Ecjhart Tolle. Today the Vatican are more afraid of Blavatsky than Krishnamurti - and they are stating it openly. (And they have to, because they feel the carpet being taken away under their notorious feets and hats - and because else people might rely on her teachings.- Smile.)

Because of this Krishnamurti - while we keep his muddled Mesianic status in mind - tend so very much to pose as an anthromorphized deity and a secterian one - with his very own terminology. (This was perhaps not his own fault entirely. Annie Besant and CWL has their part in it as well. - Yet he was 17 years of age, when they got hold on him through the strange "Messianic lawsuit" in Indian Court in 1912. Few months later, he could choose by himself anyhow. Other kids in India ran away form their parents to meet sages in the Himalayas, the did not need ot go to Court. ) Despite this Krishnamurti's as well as Eckhart Tolle's teachings might be very very helpful to some Seekers - at a certain stage of development in life.
I will question whether any theosophist with Krishnamurtian leanings can justify - the lack of comparative studying in Krishnamurti's teachings - and then at the same time elevate him to an anthropomorphic Messianic status? His meetings and films with the scientist Bhom  was perhaps one of the most important ones he ever did. But the overall picture is as I see it a bit slim.

But these are of course just my views. Others will not doubt disagree.


M. Sufilight



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Cass Silva 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:52 AM
  Subject: Re: theos-talk Elijah Crow â The Silence of the Mind


    
  What I think is that all of these people read and built on what others that 
  preceded them had stated.  That's fine, but what rails me is that they never 
  give credit to others and make out it is their own original idea.

  Krishnamurti's advaita although in theory worked a charm but in reality, this 
  freedom from the known, is unable to be maintained on a 24/7 basis, unless one 
  sits under a buddhi tree and totally shuts out the world we live in, until one 
  totally learns to stop thinking  To view every experience as a 'new' experience, 
  relies on memory being pushed back or ignored, which in itself causes a mental 
  dilemma of conscience (for me, at least).  At least Gurdgieff, stated that these 
  'forays into the "now" could only be maintained on a temporary basis, by 
  temporarily focusing consciousness on the "Not I" rather than a split between 
  the "I" and the "NOT I" consciousness.

  Cass

  Cass

  >
  >From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@L0oj0nTpALJ6w-oAXYAxss83ltLCxAAom2pNq0HaTsPZstgGKC2AF48o-3eb0zbzYDQvrK2gQvSlJcTpqnMUy5qR-RBiKQ.yahoo.invalid>
  >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  >Sent: Fri, 6 August, 2010 5:18:34 AM
  >Subject: Re: theos-talk Elijah Crow â The Silence of the Mind
  >
  >  
  >Dear friends
  >
  >My views are:
  >
  >I wonder whether Krishnamurti would have forwarded his teachings in the samer 
  >manner if had read the following books: 
  >
  >William Sargant: Battle For The Mind" (published 1957!), Robert Lifton: "Thought 
  >Reform and the Psychology of Totalism" (published 1961!), or even the later 
  >books like Steve Hassan's: Combatting cult mind control (1988), Margaret 
  >Singer's: Cults in Our Midst (1996) and similar books, which now are debated 
  >heavily in many corners of the globe???
  >
  >I think he woul have realised, that his teachings lacked something. 
  >What do John and MKR and other readers think about this?
  >
  >___
  >
  >Maybe reading the books first will give better answer.
  >And if only few or none know about such teachings, how can they forward 
  >themselves in our present time, at promoters of theosophical teachings?
  >
  >And what about the Alice A. Bailey teachers, implemented such a teaching in 
  >their schools?
  >And the other groups like I AM Joshua Stone or Harmonic Convergence Groups?
  >Or so-called DISCLOSURE groups within the UFO arena?
  >
  >Oh dear oh dear...I wonder what will be next on the New Age agenda with its many 
  >distorted versions of wisdom teachings...?
  >
  >But maybe I have overlooked something.
  >
  >___________
  >
  >To John:
  >The recent discovery of the tunnel in Peru, have now reached the medias in 
  >Denmark.
  >I just heard that they have discovered about 60.000 very interesting artifacts 
  >at the site, where they are digging their way through towards what they think is 
  >a burial chamber of an ancient King - estimated to be dead about year 2000 BC 
  >according to ordinary science. They estimate officially that it will take a few 
  >month before they reach to actual tomb.
  >
  >M. Sufilight
  >
  >----- Original Message ----- 
  >From: Augoeides-222@iN8fGxF057E6N_ZVagMZabmb-xDpSzw3oHwj9aBmCmH4Caa-rq6sQ6RondY6h1Nvc-NagBIDiYY2Hg5RK_e3t_wT0X4.yahoo.invalid 
  >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  >Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 7:22 PM
  >Subject: Re: theos-talk Elijah Crow â The Silence of the Mind
  >
  >Hmmm, 
  >After reading Blavatsky and all, how can Theosophists be ignorant of the Void? 
  >The Tibetans Kunje Nonparshespa original primordial clear void/empty 
  >Mind/Consciousness. And almost all the Tibetan Sects teach the void. The 
  >Mahayana Void or Empty mind. The Vedanta Adwaita. The Krama Kashmiri Advaita. 
  >The Tao Te Ching - Way of the Dao, The Korean and Japanese Zen all have the 
  >Void. The Heart Sutra has the Void. And Krishnamurti also spoke of the Non-dual 
  >Paradigm in his orations even if he would not name historical Parents of it. The 
  >Yoga Sutra teaches arrival to Queisence of Mind which reveals the Void of 
  >Primordial Self-nature.The Sufi also taught of the original Void, It is the 
  >Primary Metaphysical Cognition and is sometimes called Home. Find out "Who" you 
  >really are. Find out "Where" you really are. Lila is the illusion of the filling 
  >of the Void of original Self Beingness. This Doctrine of the Void is Primordial 
  >because it is the projection of Truth from Truth to Truth when Truth is cloaked 
  >during the Projection's of Lila. 
  >
  >
  >Just my personal view. 
  >
  >John 
  >----- Original Message ----- 
  >From: "M. Sufilight" <global-theosophy@L0oj0nTpALJ6w-oAXYAxss83ltLCxAAom2pNq0HaTsPZstgGKC2AF48o-3eb0zbzYDQvrK2gQvSlJcTpqnMUy5qR-RBiKQ.yahoo.invalid> 
  >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  >Sent: Thursday, August 5, 2010 10:06:55 AM 
  >Subject: Re: theos-talk Elijah Crow â The Silence of the Mind 
  >
  >It looks a bit like Eckhat Tolle's: "The Power of Now". 
  >
  >----- Original Message ----- 
  >From: MKR 
  >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  >Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 2:28 PM 
  >Subject: Re: theos-talk Elijah Crow â The Silence of the Mind 
  >
  >I found the following quote from Krishnamurti. Yet to locate where it was 
  >made. 
  >
  >"Reality is the interval between two thoughts" 
  >
  >Looks like two people coming up with the same statement, independently. 
  >
  >MKR 
  >
  >On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 2:10 PM, MKR < mkr777@0WkST9l55Wpk7RN0jommivgXdupSH9eSQjMGoJDOCDx3nCnZtcF5hS4wsUTKvuzMnXMLUKwhpac.yahoo.invalid > wrote: 
  >
  >> The 'void' he is talking about seems to be same as what Jiddu Krishnamurti 
  >> has been discussing. May be some others would jump in and share their 
  >> observations. 
  >> 
  >> By the way, in what language did Crow write his book? 
  >> 
  >> MKR 
  >> 
  >> 
  >> On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Witnessing Presence < 
  >> witnessing_presence@m10n1PuZz2sH_WBsoqg-JkrI5DaO8edFJWmysVGQnRpI24COVm5T683RMcc8xosFjIKQ0MIgTCR3NQLn6hqIdseKE7AK3u1N.yahoo.invalid > wrote: 
  >> 
  >>> 
  >>> 
  >>> I would like to share an unknown enlightened mystic - Elijah Crow â The 
  >>> Silence of The Mind, have just finished translating his book 
  >>> 
  >>> Elijah Crow does not belong to any nonduality lineage or tradition, his is 
  >>> a personal expression and experience of nonduality. 
  >>> 
  >>> Read the whole book here 
  >>> 
  >>> http://www.scribd.com/doc/34607176/Elijah-Crow-The-Silence-of-the-Mind 
  >>> 
  >>> The Power of Emptiness 
  >>> 
  >>> The "void" or " psychological emptiness" is a strange 
  >>> phenomenon, 
  >>> It appears spontaneously, in the pause between two 
  >>> thoughts, 
  >>> As the old thought ends its course and disappears, 
  >>> Its end is the gate, natural silence ensues. 
  >>> 
  >>> Insist in being with it, as much as you can, 
  >>> The mind is completely silent, we are attentive â a clear 
  >>> consciousness, 
  >>> All meanings, boundaries disappear â us and the Infinite 
  >>> are "One"; 
  >>> Practically, we have a new mind â always fresh. 
  >>> 
  >>> 
  >>> Being in the pause â I become infinite! 
  >>> It separates two worlds. I leave the limited world 
  >>> And enter Boundlessness, through total melting; 
  >>> The whole being is calm â a constant sparkle. 
  >>> 
  >>> There is no time, no space â just everlasting Eternity; 
  >>> I move in direct contact with life, in a permanent present. 
  >>> I am Pure Energy, without motivations, 
  >>> The simplicity of existence integrates us completely. 
  >>> 
  >>> We really encounter Life only through this "now", 
  >>> Free from the old, we are able to embrace the new. 
  >>> All this beauty vanishes, when another thought appears, 
  >>> It comes from the knowing mind â an old recording. 
  >>> 
  >>> Let it play its game, do not oppose any resistance, 
  >>> Encounter it as it is, without any purpose, 
  >>> It will certainly disappear, and "emptiness" ensues again, 
  >>> Another opportunity to encounter it practically. 
  >>> 
  >>> We find the real meaning of Life through this "void", 
  >>> It is a boundary line between the two worlds: 
  >>> On the one side the limited, where the "ego" is the 
  >>> master. 
  >>> On the other, the Infinite, where Love is the master. 
  >>> 
  >>> Emptiness also separates Light from the darkness, 
  >>> The permanent chaos through struggle, contradictions and 
  >>> conflicts, 
  >>> From the harmonious being, equilibrium and joy; 
  >>> The whole egocentrism perishes, by encountering the 
  >>> void. 
  >>> 
  >>> Peace, divine order becomes our nature 
  >>> It changes our way of being, without effort or will, 
  >>> Only through this psychological void, we become honest 
  >>> and humane, 
  >>> The Purity of the Energy â makes titans out of pigmies . 
  >>> 
  >>> Let this "psychological emptiness" be your guide, 
  >>> In everything you encounter on your spiritual path. 
  >>> If it is not the starting point, we easily get deceived, 
  >>> Only through emptiness â we become Love! 
  >>> 
  >>> 
  >>> 
  >> 
  >> 
  >
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