Theos-Talk Archives (July 2009 Message tt00513)

Everyone knows who Anton is.  It was never my intention to question his
identity. If there is even slightest misperception that I am doubting his
identity, my personal apologies to him.

In all my messages posted here and elsewhere, I speak only for myself. This
I have stated before. This continues today and will be so in the future.  I
am just an ordinary member and I have not held any office nor plan to hold
any in the future. So my position should be clear to everyone.

I signed as Messenger so that no one confuses between message and the
messenger. As I mentioned in my msg, I will soon post a msg discussing the
issues, in my opinion, important to the TS today. Please keep tuned.

Messenger aka MKR

visit theosophy.net


On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Anton Rozman <anton_rozman@yahoo.com>wrote:

>
>
> Hi Ramadoss,
>
> Or should I now call you Messenger (of some formal or informal group)?
>
> The passage you presented is extracted from the topic I opened on the
> Theosophical Community under the title: "Have we a problem?"
>
> http://theosophical.ning.com/forum/topics/have-we-a-problem
>
> The specific words are those of Will Morrow in his Comment 7687:
>
>
> http://theosophical.ning.com/forum/topics/have-we-a-problem?page=1&commentId=2060685%3AComment%3A7687&x=1#2060685Comment7687
>
> So, those interested can check the entire discussion to see those words in
> proper context, but here is my reply to those Will Morrow's words as posted
> on the Community:
>
> "I naturally supposed and wrote that there will be probably many who will
> have different opinion. I don't have problem with that and do not force
> anyone to change it.
>
> I hope that this relatively new way of free expression of ideas and views
> through internet will be sooner or later regarded as an enrichment of
> Society's life. But as every new thing it obviously provokes some doubts."
>
> In your extract (below) you additionally substituted the name of Joe
> (Fulton) with xxx probably because in that comment (later on deleted because
> Joe left the Theosophical Community) Joe actually supported my views about
> lack of common vision concerning the nature of the Theosophical Society.
>
> "This has happened many times before (As seen in xxx's - Joe's - comment
> below - where all of those who believed their sectarianism was THE correct
> one started their own TS) and will continue."
>
> More over, this lack of common vision is one of the "hot" topics on the
> Theosophical Network and I understand its slogan "Embrace-Compare-Explore"
> as one of the attempts to define it more clearly. Anyway, we will see if Joe
> has anything to say on this.
>
> You wrote: "When we look at the discussions on operational matters of TS
> brought up by some, many frequent participants and others have contributed
> their views and arguments. Some were very passionate. In the case of some of
> them, many had serious doubts about their real identities especially when
> unsubstantiated allegations were made by them."
>
> So, you avoid addressing me directly to check my real identity and you call
> views I present "unsubstantiated allegations". Why? I have no problem to
> offer you my personal data which you anyway know all too well as you know
> well my views which are equally publicly presented on my web site and on
> e-mail lists. But if this is not enough for you then come here in Koper and
> check all you want personally. But this is not the point, isn't it?
>
> No, you rather hide behind those "many" who "had serious doubts" and who
> hide their identity on the Theosophical Community and the Theosophical
> Network behind various symbols and actually spread "unsubstantiated
> allegations" as I didn't see any serious analysis of the current situation
> in the TS from the part of persons of this (formal or informal) group of
> people.
>
> "But when disguise is used to avoid personal responsibility for their
> statements, it is a wholly different matter. We know what happens when the
> disguise is about to be unmasked. They disappear, not to be seen again."
>
> So, maybe you could start in first place to identify who are "we", "many",
> Messenger of which group or network you are and what are actually your group
> views on the current situation in the TS and its future besides supporting
> the illegal activity of the TS President and Mr. Pedro Oliveira.
>
> You know, the methods you use are very familiar to me as they were used
> against me by Communist Party and its political police and now their
> "democratic" successors, as well as by Head of my theosophical mother lodge,
> so I have something less than thirty years of experience with this kind of
> operation. And I can equally understand your disappointment when I didn't
> want to accept your proposed unethical behavior towards those who contact me
> as this also happened many times before.
>
> I don't fear the consequences for, as I already said, I don't have much to
> loose. But I certainly don't want to loose my human right for personal
> freedom and free expression of views and ideas. I don't have intention to
> disappear or to finish my life yet although it would be great relief as I am
> really tired to fight this unequal battle.
>
> So, go ahead and good luck,
> Anton
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Messenger <mkr777@...> wrote:
> >
> > A TS memberÃââs observation on non-existent Problem
> >
> > Sometime ago, a very observant TS member wrote in an online forum:
> >
> > ÃâËIt appears to me that the difference in our opinion is the premise you
> > state: "that Theosophical Society has definite difficulties in its
> > functioning and further on assumed that these difficulties are related to
> > the: .. Lack of clear common vision about the nature of our Society.Ãâ
> >
> > Many of us don't see it the way you present it and therefore don't agree
> > with either your presumption that there is a problem or your presumed
> > solution to a non-existant problem. This recent activity identifying the
> > "difficulties" within the TS appears to simply be the campaigning by
> > individuals (yourself included) to project their own ideas onto the
> > membership at large. This has happened many times before (As seen in
> xxx's
> > comment below - where all of those who believed their sectarianism was
> THE
> > correct one started their own TS) and will continue..Ãâ
> >
> > When we look at the discussions on operational matters of TS brought up
> by
> > some, many frequent participants and others have contributed their views
> > and arguments. Some were very passionate. In the case of some of them,
> many
> > had serious doubts about their real identities especially when
> > unsubstantiated allegations were made by them. But when disguise is used
> to
> > avoid personal responsibility for their statements, it is a wholly
> different
> > matter. We know what happens when the disguise is about to be unmasked.
> > They disappear, not to be seen again.
> >
> > In the light of the above and other discussions on this list, it is time
> to
> > look at and see what are the real immediate key issues around the TS
> where
> > it is worthwhile to concentrate our efforts. I will try to discuss them
> in a
> > message I plan to post soon.
> >
> > Messenger (aka MKR)
> >
> > Visit theosophy.net and enjoy
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>  
>


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