Theos-Talk Archives (June 2009 Message tt00547)

If we are still around ........ perhaps our death will serve Adyar!!!!

Cass


>
>From: MKR <mkr777@gmail.com>
>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Wednesday, 24 June, 2009 1:01:38 PM
>Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Anand's stand and the election
>
>
>
>
>
>One additional factor we have today is Internet. In addition to word of
>mouth communication, we have maillist such as this, which is unmoderated and
>is outside the control of TS at local, national and international levels.
>
>-
>
>Coupled with the world-wide distribution, and high velocity and 24/7
>operation, this is a totally new environment. We will have to look back
>couple of years from now, and review how this has affected the traditional
>underlying operational problems.
>
>-
>
>MKR
>
>-
>
>Visit www.theosophy. net and enjoy the community.
>
>On 6/23/09, Jerry Hejka-Ekins <jjhe@charter. net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Friends,
>>
>> May I add my own perspective, which is based upon almost fifty years of
>> active membership in, and observation of the Theosophical Society?
>>
>> The problem is not the International President; typesetters, proof
>> readers, printers, etc. Nor is it Ms. Georgiades. The problem is
>> gossip. Since I joined this organization in 1963, gossip has been the
>> bulldozer that has unjustly ruined many a member's reputation, and
>> driven many productive and creative workers for the cause of Theosophy
>> to resign, or just quietly leave the organization. I watched the
>> effects of gossip overthrow a National President in 1965; undermine the
>> reformist efforts of an International President in the 1970's, and
>> watched numerous people have their reputations stained through gossip
>> when they dared to seek an elective office in the TS higher than
>> federation president. Further, a careful study of the Theosophical
>> Society's history revealed to me that gossip has been a major political
>> tool and disruptive force in the TS, going all the way back into the
>> 19th century!
>>
>> As long as gossip remains a weapon for those who are insecure about
>> their position, ambitious for a higher one, or feel threatened by
>> someone who might be a bit smarter and/or more capable than they are,
>> the Theosophical Society will remain a third rate organization. It is
>> the Organization' s high ideals and unparalleled teachings that has
>> attracted members to this organization, and the less than brotherly acts
>> from members of officers that have driven some of our most capable
>> people away.
>>
>> When the members and officers learn not to engage in gossip; remain
>> silent when they hear it from others; and practice discerning between
>> what is good for the Theosophical Movement and what hurts it, the TS
>> will be well on its way to doing the work that will bring major changes
>> in this world for the good of all humanity.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Jerry
>>
>> robertapimenta26 wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Could it be, dear ladies that both of you are right? Perhaps the
>> > International President really passed on mixed-up information to third
>> > parties in the manner Mrs. Preethi describes, and was Mrs. Erica's
>> > talk confirmed a month or so before she left for Adyar, exactly as she
>> > suggets.
>> >
>> > Makes perfectly sense to me; a very confused head.
>> >
>> > Roberta
>> >
>> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups. com>
>> > <mailto:theos- talk%40yahoogrou ps.com <theos-talk% 2540yahoogroups. com>>,
>> "Erica L. Georgiades"
>> > <eletzerich@ ...> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Dear Preety,
>> > >
>> > > You say:
>> > >
>> > > "Scene 3: Year 2007: Mrs Erica Georgiades arrived at Adyar after a gap
>> > > of several years to attend the Convention. After a few days of her
>> > > arrival, she comes into the office of Leadbeater Chambers to announce
>> > > that she is going to be speaking during the interntional Convention in
>> > > one of the symposiums. A couple of days after this announcement, I am
>> > > told that she wangled this privilege from the President by haranguing
>> > > the President for nearly 1-1/2 hours. How do I know this information?
>> > > President tells this to Uma Nilakanta, Radha Muthiah, and some others,
>> > > who then relate it to me and others as well, because all are surprised
>> > > to see that a young member of the TS is going to speak at the
>> > > international Convention, knowing fully well that the President does
>> > > not give that privilege to youngsters, and had not given that to even
>> > > knowledgeable young speakers like Dr Pablo Sender."
>> > >
>> > > I really doubt this information. As I went to the International
>> > Convention of 2007 representing the Greek Section, and in the position
>> > of secretary of the same. My lecture during the International
>> > Convention was closed more than one month before my arrival in Adyar.
>> > So I wonder how from Greece I could seat more than one and half hour
>> > with Radhaji to ask for a lecture. I have all the correspondence
>> > related to the fact in the archives of the T.S. in Greece.
>> > >
>> > > Best wishes,
>> > >
>> > > Erica
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ____________ _________ _________ __
>> > > From: preethi muthiah <seeker_preethi@ ...>
>> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:
>> theos-talk%40yahoog roups.com <theos-talk% 2540yahoogroups. com>>
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:54:21 AM
>> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Anand's stand and the election
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Dear MKR,
>> > >
>> > > I am a bit concerned with the way you keep repeating that the
>> > attempt to disenfranchise the members of the TS to vote in an election
>> > for the President was done in order to make the President a puppet in
>> > the hands of the General Council. I understand that since you have
>> > never visited Adyar you (as many others who read and participate in
>> > this online discussion group) would not know that we do have a puppet
>> > as the President. Since she has not developed the faculty of
>> > discriminating for herself the strengths and weaknesses of all those
>> > who work directly under her, either at Adyar or as General and
>> > Federation Secretaries, most times what does happen is that she
>> > "believes" the version of the First Person who reports his/her version
>> > of an event to her. For Your Information and that of many others, I
>> > will describe some typical scenes that happen daily at the President's
>> > Office:
>> > >
>> > > Scene 1: Year 2000. A typesetting error occurs in a book newly
>> > brought out by the TPH, Adyar. Typesetter at that time is Mrs Ranjini
>> > and in-charge of typesetting section is Ms Elvira Carbonell. Sushama
>> > Sreenath (who is now Sushama Webber and lives in New Zealand and is
>> > additionally what you would call a "nth generation Theosophist" ) goes
>> > to the President to show the artwork for the cover of a book. Mrs
>> > Burnier mentions the error to her. Sushama says she doesn't know
>> > anything about it and blames it on Mr G. Naganathan. Mrs Burnier does
>> > not clarify it with Mr Naganathan who is assistant Editor for the
>> > Theosophist, but also edits books and other publications of the TPH.
>> > RSB instead asks her niece Subha Nilakanta for clarification and
>> > mentions that Sushama thinks it is the responsibility of Mr
>> > Naganathan. Ms Nilakanta agrees with Sushama, knowing fully well that
>> > Mr Naganathan is not involved with the typesetting section. Then the
>> > President calls Mr
>> > > Naganathan and blames him without giving him an opportunity to even
>> > defend himself, which defence basically includes the fact that he is
>> > not at all involved in the typesetting part of book publishing. He, as
>> > a fellow human and a committed Theosophist and worker at Adyar has no
>> > right to defend his name. Mrs Burnier gives no one that right. She is
>> > President authority and blames as she feels.
>> > >
>> > > Scene 2: Year 2001: The Theosophist, Issue June 2001. A chance
>> > diacritical wrongly appears on a Sanskrit word. Mrs Burnier asks Subha
>> > Nilakanta instead of Mr C.S. Raghavan who has taken up the post of
>> > Officer-in-Charge of the Editorial Office after Mr G. Naganathan quit
>> > the office in 2000 due to the incident mentioned above. Subha
>> > Nilakanta without asking Mr Raghavan or clarifying at the Office,
>> > mentions Preethi Muthiah's name. Mrs Burnier blames Preethi Muthiah
>> > who works there as a Proof Reader. Mrs Ranjini who is the typesetter
>> > for the Theosophist goes to Subha Nilakanta and tells her that it is
>> > not Preethi's fault but her own. Subha chooses not to inform the
>> > President about this. Mrs Burnier in addition initiates gossip in
>> > which she tells workers at Adyar that "Preethi thinks she knows
>> > Sanskrit but she does not". Preethi on hearing she is blamed and
>> > gossiped about decides to quit.. Venkatesh who works at the Library
>> > and helps out with computer
>> > > problems at the Editorial Office and other departments at Adyar
>> > decides to look into the matter and is told by Mrs Ranjini that it was
>> > her fault and not Preethi's and that she had already informed Subha
>> > Nilakanta about this. Venkatesh goes to RSB with that knowledge and
>> > information. RSB refuses to apologize to Preethi, and in subsequent
>> > years, she keeps that bit of gossip and her version of the incident
>> > alive. I hear these days she tells people (like Pedro Oliveira) that
>> > Preethi (which is myself) left the Editorial Office in 2001 because
>> > she was criticized and could not take it.
>> > >
>> > > Scene 3: Year 2007: Mrs Erica Georgiades arrived at Adyar after a
>> > gap of several years to attend the Convention. After a few days of her
>> > arrival, she comes into the office of Leadbeater Chambers to announce
>> > that she is going to be speaking during the interntional Convention in
>> > one of the symposiums. A couple of days after this announcement, I am
>> > told that she wangled this privilege from the President by haranguing
>> > the President for nearly 1-1/2 hours. How do I know this information?
>> > President tells this to Uma Nilakanta, Radha Muthiah, and some others,
>> > who then relate it to me and others as well, because all are surprised
>> > to see that a young member of the TS is going to speak at the
>> > international Convention, knowing fully well that the President does
>> > not give that privilege to youngsters, and had not given that to even
>> > knowledgeable young speakers like Dr Pablo Sender. The only other
>> > youngster to my knowledge who has had that privilege would be Pedro
>> > > Oliveira, another Brazilian.
>> > >
>> > > Scene 4: Over the years from mid-1998 to mid-2000: Preethi goes to
>> > meet the President on official work. She asks Preethi how she is
>> > enjoying her work at the Editorial Office. Preethi generally tends to
>> > say she is enjoying her work. But the divisive-intentione d President
>> > tells Preethi that Sushama (who used to come on-and-off to offer the
>> > artistic skills for book-designing and cover art) told the President
>> > that Preethi is temperamental (which i was at that time) and not a
>> > easy to work with (for Sushama i would not be easy to work with as I
>> > am conscientious and diligent and in those days was also the immature
>> > person who questioned Sushama'a habitual latecoming to work).. But
>> > Preethi says nothing except to shed tears of hurt and try to defend my
>> > name. I become aware by talking to others that when Sushama goes to
>> > the President's Office, she is told by the President that Preethi has
>> > spoken ill of her, while all i did was to shed tears and try and defend
>> > > myself.
>> > >
>> > > It took me 5 years to become immune to the effects of Mrs Burnier's
>> > gossiping tendencies, but there are many others in the TS till now who
>> > believe her version of each other, and are reacting against each other
>> > without cause. This is the way the President keeps us divided, turning
>> > us against each other.
>> > >
>> > > And since we were talking about the President's becoming a puppet in
>> > the hands of the General Council, we might want to ask the further
>> > question of why are those who opposed the move -- I oppose it because
>> > I know that disenfranchising members from voting in a President
>> > amounts to taking away the freedom of members to choose a President --
>> > opposing it? At the moment, the President is a puppet in the hands of
>> > Pedro Oliveira, Helen Jamieson, Keshwar Dastur, Radha Muthiah, Uma
>> > Nilakanta, Nandan Nilakanta, Subha Nilakanta, S.. Ramu, Dr A. Kannan,
>> > N. Muthuswamy, S. Ravindran, Shailendra Agrawal, S. Harihara Raghavan,
>> > Radha Harihara Raghavan, Breda and Dusan Zagar, Ricardo Lindemann,
>> > Marcos Resende, etc.. All of these people mentioned can twist the
>> > President according to their whim and fancy. It is quite common at
>> > Adyar, for example, for one to see that those who do not impress Mrs
>> > Uma Nilakanta, for example, will find that the next time they ask for
>> > permission
>> > > to reside at Leadbeater Chambers, they will be refused that
>> > permission; not because they did something wrong -- which wrong can be
>> > corrected with compassion and understanding -- but solely because Uma
>> > Nilakanta did not like a person's face, or perhaps he/she did not give
>> > Uma Nilakanta the ego boost she needed. This is the case with most
>> > office-bearers at Adyar...and perhaps worldwide.
>> > >
>> > > So as far as puppet-Presidents are concerned, we now need to think,
>> > perhaps, which part of the General Council ought to have a say in what
>> > the President will do....those who have only vested interests in
>> > holding positions of power and authority, or those who have through
>> > their lifetime of work and diligence for the TS, shown that in
>> > addition to the vested interest, they also have an interest in the
>> > continuance of the TS as at least resembling the TS our Founders
>> > incepted...and have from time to time opposed the policies of the
>> > President when they thought that these policies would harm the future
>> > of Adyar and the TS worldwide.
>> > >
>> > > Fraternal greetings
>> > >
>> > > Preethi
>> > >
>> > > --- On Mon, 22/6/09, MKR <mkr777@gmail. com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > From: MKR <mkr777@gmail. com>
>> > > Subject: Theos-World Re: Anand's stand and the election
>> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>> > > Date: Monday, 22 June, 2009, 6:45 PM
>> > >
>> > > Dear Anand:
>> > >
>> > > -
>> > >
>> > > I think that what we know of the election is just the tip of the
>> > iceberg and
>> > >
>> > > we do not know all that went on behind the scenes. My hope is some
>> > day we
>> > >
>> > > may have more complete information about who did what and when and why?
>> > >
>> > > -
>> > >
>> > > I have been following closely all your msgs since the start of the
>> > election
>> > >
>> > > and you have been fair and helpful. Atleast you are posting msgs
>> > under your
>> > >
>> > > name and not under a pseudonym or thru a front. For those who falsely
>> > >
>> > > misunderstood your stand in the election, I suggest they read all your
>> > >
>> > > messages in the theos-talk archive. When you speak truth, you need
>> > not be
>> > >
>> > > concerned since you know in your heart of hearts that what you say
>> > is true.
>> > >
>> > > -
>> > >
>> > > All the discussions here started with the allegation about
>> > RadhaâEUR^(TM) s health -
>> > >
>> > > and that too laymanâEUR^(TM) s opinions that was shot down by
>> > professional opinions.
>> > >
>> > > The pity is that none of the leaders really foresaw the need to find
>> and
>> > >
>> > > develop young leaders. As I have stated several times, every
>> > upcoming and
>> > >
>> > > growing organization are always lead by young or middle aged persons
>> and
>> > >
>> > > not septuagenarians or octogenarians. My hope is that the
>> > electioneering and
>> > >
>> > > subsequent end-run secret attempt to disenfranchise all of us and seize
>> > >
>> > > control of appointment of the president, thus make the president a
>> > puppet is
>> > >
>> > > a wake up call for everyone. This may not be the last such attempt.
>> > >
>> > > -
>> > >
>> > > I also hope that those who have operated for years behind the scenes
>> and
>> > >
>> > > kept members in the dark about the happenings understand how
>> > transparency is
>> > >
>> > > urgently needed to prevent unnecessary secrecy causing more serious
>> > >
>> > > problems, keeping in mind Master KHâEUR^(TM)s warning in his 1900
>> > letter.. It is not
>> > >
>> > > easy to get out of the secrecy mindset, especially if you have
>> > operated in
>> > >
>> > > that environment for too long.
>> > >
>> > > -
>> > >
>> > > Keep up the good work.
>> > >
>> > > -
>> > >
>> > > MKR
>> > >
>> > > -
>> > >
>> > > Visit www.thesophy. net and enjoy all the good stuff there.
>> > >
>> > > -
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 3:10 AM, Anand <AnandGholap@ gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > > Dear MKR,
>> > >
>> > > > Transparency and such conditions greatly depend on the International
>> > >
>> > > > President. As all offices like ES, masonry and TS Presidency are
>> > >
>> > > > concentrated in Mrs. Burnier, she has considerable control over
>> > what happens
>> > >
>> > > > in TS. Changes like transparency depend on her, to great extent.
>> > For many
>> > >
>> > > > years no General Secretary dared to challenge or question Mrs.
>> > Burnier for
>> > >
>> > > > the reasons Annie Besant mentioned and I elaborated further. It is
>> > only last
>> > >
>> > > > year that John Algeo unexpectedly gave tough fight in Presidential
>> > election.
>> > >
>> > > > Supporters of Mrs. Burnier won't like it. But such election
>> > actually is the
>> > >
>> > > > sign that democracy exists to some extent. Suppose John Algeo had
>> > announced
>> > >
>> > > > two years back that he would run for the Presient, would Mrs. Burnier
>> > >
>> > > > appoint John as Vice-President? I don't think she would have. It
>> > appears
>> > >
>> > > > that because he challenged her in Presidential election, he is not
>> > again
>> > >
>> > > > selected for any office at international level.
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > > In this Presidential election I was neutral toward both the
>> > candidates..
>> > >
>> > > > Somebody circulated wrong message that I supported John Algeo.
>> > That has made
>> > >
>> > > > some officers in Adyar TS to go against me. I don't give a damn
>> > because they
>> > >
>> > > > will be damned by karmic results of their own actions.
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > > Anand Gholap
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups.
>> > com>, MKR
>> > >
>> > > > <mkr777@> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > >
>> > >
>> > > > > How about Tsunami? Founders getting fed up with the bickering among
>> > >
>> > > > > theosophists!
>> > >
>> > > > > MKR
>> > >
>> > > > >
>> > >
>> > > > > On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 4:56 PM, <Drpsionic@ ..> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > >
>> > >
>> > > > > >
>> > >
>> > > > > >
>> > >
>> > > > > > I'm beginning to think we would all be better off if Adyar
>> > fell into
>> > >
>> > > > the
>> > >
>> > > > > > bay and the sharks, who are not vegetarians, could deal with the
>> > >
>> > > > problem.
>> > >
>> > > > > >
>> > >
>> > > > > > Chuck the Heretic
>> > >
>> > > > > >
>> > >
>> > > > > >
>> > >
>> > > > > > In a message dated 6/21/2009 11:44:34 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
>> > >
>> > > > > > seeker_preethi@ ... <seeker_preethi% 40yahoo.com> writes:
>> > >
>> > > > > >
>> > >
>> > > > > > Hi MKR,
>> > >
>> > > > > >
>> > >
>> > > > > > Not surprised, but only shall we say disappointed, because we are
>> > >
>> > > > > > forgetting that the TS is meant to be a spiritual
>> > organization. Why
>> > >
>> > > > speak
>> > >
>> > > > > > such high
>> > >
>> > > > > > philosophy when in the end one has to lead life in the same
>> > manner as
>> > >
>> > > > > > those who do not speak it or have no knowledge of it? And why
>> > expect
>> > >
>> > > > then
>> > >
>> > > > > > that
>> > >
>> > > > > > one must be treated any different when one behaves in a manner
>> > that is
>> > >
>> > > > > > similar to the materialistic world around? Seems more like in
>> > the past
>> > >
>> > > > few
>> > >
>> > > > > > decades we have become more like the many religionists who
>> > hold on to
>> > >
>> > > > empty
>> > >
>> > > > > >
>> > >
>> > > > > > words that don't translate into every day living. So then,
>> > perhaps, it
>> > >
>> > > > is
>> > >
>> > > > > > best
>> > >
>> > > > > > to break the walls of Adyar and just continue to live with the
>> > world --
>> > >
>> > > > > > which is not really bad at all -- as the world is. Why pretend
>> > to be
>> > >
>> > > > one
>> > >
>> > > > > > thing and then be something totally different?
>> > >
>> > > > > >
>> > >
>> > > > > > Just some thoughts.
>> > >
>> > > > > >
>> > >
>> > > > > > Preethi
>> > >
>> > > > > >
>> > >
>> > > > > > --- On Sun, 21/6/09, MKR <_mkr777@ <_mkr777%40gmail. mkr>_
>> > >
>> > > > > > (mailto:mkr777@ ... <mkr777%40gmail. com>) >
>> > >
>> > > > > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > > >
>> > >
>> > > > > > From: MKR <_mkr777@ <_mkr777%40gmail. mkr>_ (mailto:
>> > >
>> > > > > > mkr777@ <mkr777%40gmail. com>) >
>> > >
>> > > > > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Adyar estate
>> > >
>> > > > > > To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-
>> > talk@yahoogro ups..com<theos- talk% 40yahoogroups. com>
>> > >
>> > > > <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups. com>)
>> > >
>> > > > > >
>> > >
>> > > > > > Date: Sunday, 21 June, 2009, 1:51 AM
>> > >
>> > > > > >
>> > >
>> > > > > > No one should be surprised. Did not one of the Masters stated
>> that
>> > >
>> > > > human
>> > >
>> > > > > > nature is the same whether in Adyar or in London. This just
>> > proves it.
>> > >
>> > > > (At
>> > >
>> > > > > > least two people were not fighting or killing each other!)
>> > >
>> > > > > > ..
>> > >
>> > > > > > MKR
>> > >
>> > > > > > ..
>> > >
>> > > > > >
>> > >
>> > > > > > On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 2:58 AM, preethi muthiah
>> > >
>> > > > > > <seeker_preethi@ yahoo.com>wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > > >
>> > >
>> > > > > > > Last year in fact we had a general secretary forget her
>> > nuptial vows
>> > >
>> > > > and
>> > >
>> > > > > > > commit adultery in her marriage.
>> > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > >
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>
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