Theos-Talk Archives (June 2009 Message tt00357)

Ramadoss, maybe this passage from Rohit Mehta's book "The Search for Freedom" is really appropriate at this point:

"To revitalize an organization or a community, it is of the greatest importance for its members to examine the process of corruption - how and why it comes; for unless minds are incorrupt no amount of alteration in outer patterns and forms will avail. In dealing with corruption the problem of inertia too will be solved, for corruption and inertia are not two different things. Organizations and communities can remain fresh and vital only when their members are extraordinarily vigilant with regard to the process of corruption which contaminates the mind. If the members are aware of this they will, by their very vigilance, be able to retain the pristine purity of their organizations. Only as organizations become fields of observation, instead of fields of self-fulfillment, will they serve as channels for the pure and living waters of life to all those who suffer deep psychological agony. Organizations will fulfill their purposes only if their members do not seek to fulfill their own purposes through them."

Best regards,
Anton


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR <mkr777@...> wrote:
>
> Based on what you have described, it looks like the problems in Slovenia
> have to be addressed by the members in Slovenia. I hope you or someone else
> can gather enough supporters and bring up the issue within the framework
> under which TS in Slovenia operates.
> .
> My 0.02.
> .
> MKR
> .
> Visit theosophy.net for interesting theosophy matters.
> .
> 
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Anton Rozman <anton_rozman@...>wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Dear Ramadoss,
> >
> > Your question was: "I am wondering if Anton had a chance to personally meet
> > with and talk to the current head of the TS in Slovenia. Usually, based on
> > my experience, complex and complicated and contentious situations are
> > amenable to solution in a one-on-one setting."
> >
> > I gave you one practical example to show you how things work, why GS avoids
> > such discussions and that there are centers of power asserting their private
> > interests - usually with the violation of the by-laws and their proceedings
> > - at the expense of the interests of the Theosophical Society, that they are
> > actually working against the interests of the Theosophical Society. And this
> > is for sure a problem, the central problem.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Anton
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>, MKR
> > <mkr777@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I still could not understand the real problem.
> > >
> > > If the TS in Slovenia did not want a website in the manner you suggested,
> > > that is their problem. You, as an individual is free to setup a site and
> > who
> > > is to make a judgement on it.
> > >
> > > We have seen independent websites dealing with theosophy and TS. Also we
> > > have this maillist which is not part of TS. If anyone in the
> > organizational
> > > structure does not like it, it is their problem.
> > >
> > > .
> > >
> > > MKR
> > >
> > > .
> > >
> > > Visit theosophy.net for more on theosophy.
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6/15/09, Anton Rozman <anton_rozman@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dear Ramadoss,
> > > >
> > > > Dusan and Breda Zagar were close friends with Anton Jesse and to some
> > > > extend with me too but when new GS took over the office in 1995 they
> > slowly
> > > > moved off from him. Let's say that they change their "political"
> > > > orientation. So, as I usually attend public lectures when some guest
> > arrives
> > > > in Slovenia, we courteously exchange few words as private persons, any
> > > > discussion in his formal capacity as GS is avoided.
> > > >
> > > > Now let's take an example of formal relations: when Geo Duguay, late GS
> > of
> > > > the Canadian Theosophical Association, began to help me to create the
> > web
> > > > site I thought that this should be also the web site of the TS in
> > Slovenia.
> > > > When I proposed this to Dusan as the GS of the TS in Slovenia it was
> > > > rejected. Then Geo wrote a letter to Dusan proposing two other options:
> > that
> > > > there could be two separated web sites but hosted on the same server
> > and
> > > > even completely separated and hosted on two different servers. Anyway
> > the
> > > > offer was frankly rejected and there was launched more than odd
> > campaign
> > > > within the TS in Slovenia that they prefer "live internet" - being
> > person to
> > > > person interaction - than a web site. Can any reasonable person
> > understand
> > > > this?
> > > >
> > > > But the explanation is that it is the Executive Committee which
> > actually
> > > > makes decisions as according to society's by-laws GS is only one member
> > of
> > > > this body and public representative of the Society. And as head of
> > lodges
> > > > keep ex-officio seat in the EC although not being elected on any
> > elections
> > > > they are real power behind the scenes and GS can not make any decision
> > or
> > > > take any concrete move without confirmation from the part of these
> > persons.
> > > >
> > > > Warmest regards,
> > > > Anton
> > > >
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> > 40yahoogroups.com>, MKR
> > > > <mkr777@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry to hear what has happened in the past.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am wondering if Anton had a chance to personally meet with and talk
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > current head of the TS in Slovenia. Usually, based on my experience,
> > > > complex
> > > > > and complicated and contentious situations are amenable to solution
> > in a
> > > > > one-on-one setting. Even if in such a setting, the resolution is
> > still
> > > > not
> > > > > satisfactory, then we can seek help of several long-time well known
> > > > leaders
> > > > > within the TS to help sort out the issues.
> > > > >
> > > > > My 0.02
> > > > >
> > > > > MKR
> > > > > Visit thosophical community at theosophy.net
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Anton Rozman <anton_rozman@>wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dear friends,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I really don't want to enter too much into detail. When I was
> > member of
> > > > the
> > > > > > TS in Slovenia I tried to call attention of the Society's bodies on
> > the
> > > > > > existing problems and inconsistencies and to propose solutions. My
> > > > strivings
> > > > > > were ignored and presented as my personal agenda. Later on I
> > addressed
> > > > these
> > > > > > issues on formal level in a series of articles on the history of
> > the TS
> > > > in
> > > > > > former Yugoslavia and Slovenia which can be found on my web site.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In general these problems are usually related to the assertion of
> > > > private
> > > > > > interests at the expense of the common interest of the Society.
> > Their
> > > > local
> > > > > > particularities in Slovenia can be summarized as resulting from
> > > > smallness of
> > > > > > groups, from heritage of totalitarian political system and from
> > poor
> > > > > > application of constitutional proceedings and declarations on
> > freedom
> > > > of
> > > > > > thought and freedom of the Society. Lodges are close groups with
> > > > practically
> > > > > > no public work and presence.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I never ceased to seek collaboration with the TS in Slovenia and to
> > > > > > establish normal human relationships but all the attempts are still
> > > > ignored.
> > > > > > This surrealistic situation can be possibly understood only in the
> > > > light of
> > > > > > events related to the decay of the TS in former Yugoslavia.
> > Although I
> > > > > > didn't participate in them I was later on collaborator of the late
> > GS
> > > > of the
> > > > > > TS in Slovenia, Anton Jesse, who's role in the history of the
> > > > theosophical
> > > > > > movement in our area tend to be purposely put into oblivion
> > although it
> > > > was
> > > > > > he who actually did most to keep theosophical flame alive through
> > WW II
> > > > and
> > > > > > through the totalitarian period.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Therefore words dugpa and dugpa victim should be normally
> > understood
> > > > only
> > > > > > in the context of my previous message to Ramadoss.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Warmest regards,
> > > > > > Anton
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> > 40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, MKR
> > > > > > <mkr777@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sometimes this happens in some lodges even in the US and India.
> > > > > > > Even here in San Antonio, years ago, we used to meet in member's
> > > > homes
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > apartments. But public lectures are always held in a public
> > place.
> > > > > > > It would be interesting to find out the situation in Slovenia.
> > > > > > > MKR
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 10:37 AM, robertapimenta26 <
> > > > > > > robertapimenta26@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Quite interesting this remark by Mr. Anand. Meetings at private
> > > > > > > > appartments, and only a select group to be present? Doesn't
> > sound
> > > > very
> > > > > > > > transparent to me. What is going on there? That's worthwhile
> > > > > > investigating.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Roberta
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com<theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> > 40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> > > > 40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, "Anand"
> > > > > > > > <AnandGholap@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It is for local members only; and probably because they
> > still
> > > > see
> > > > > > me as
> > > > > > > > dugpa victim or even dugpa itself,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Why do they think you are a dugpa or it's victim?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >while Pedro probably doesn't have any wish to meet me. But
> > the
> > > > major
> > > > > > > > problem is probably that that Lodge meets at Lodge head's
> > private
> > > > > > > > appartment.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Why doesn't Pedro wish to meet you?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>