Theos-Talk Archives (June 2009 Message tt00225)

Important developments have taken place in TS since early last year and it
is difficult for newbees to wade thru the massive amount of discussions and
hence, to put my comments in perspective, I find it necessary to state some
key facts in my message(s).
.
This also serves the purpose of keeping focus on important key facts/issues
and avoid being side tracked to less important issues. Hence for regulars
here, portions of my messages would be a repetition.
.
As for Adyar, I think the GC members should be thinking about the Adyar
issues instead of secret efforts to disenfranchise the members and seize
control of the president. I am wondering why they did not bring up Adyar
issues in the last meeting. Also, if they had any real interest in
understanding  what is going on at Adyar, they could have stayed at Adyar
for a couple of weeks after or before the GC meeting/convention and  had a
first hand knowledge of the functioning and the needs of Adyar, which would
have been far more helpful than a lot of second hand reports. After all,
their expenses were met from the funds of the TS sections.
.
Except for Warwickâs comment about the decay, which was rebutted by a post
from Keith, we did not hear anything from the GC members on Adyar; they
rarely talk about anything regarding the GC meetings.
.
Budget matters are normally brought up in the annual meetings of all
organizations and to my knowledge, so far I have not heard anything from our
GC representative. Also, my attempts to get hold of a copy of the 2006 and
2007 annual reports from Olcott library has also not been successful. Was
told they do not have them.
.

MKR

More on theosophy, go to: theosophy.net



On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 9:36 AM, robertapimenta26 <
robertapimenta26@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
> Dear Mr. Ramadoss,
>
> I am convinced that you are a sincere person, and I wrote earlier that I
> have been following this site for quite some time, so I read most of your
> comments on the subject. I have the feeling however, that you tend to repeat
> yourself to the extreme!! Forgive me for being frank with you, but I am sure
> you can do so much better than that.
>
> No matter what mistakes others might have made, let's for a moment not look
> back, but concentrate on the future. I was referring to what Mr. Rozman
> wrote regarding the Adyar estate, and I thought he made a number of good
> points there. So, what do you think of his idea, and next to your well known
> and crystal-clear criticisms regarding others and their failures, what is it
> that you, personally, can positively contribute in this estate discussion?
>
> Roberta
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>, MKR
> <mkr777@...> wrote:
> >
> > I am glad you picked on the key issue - transparency..
> > I am not sure if you have followed the events since early last year.
> > .
> > The height of non-transparency was the ultra-secret attempt by a handful
> of
> > General Council members to take away the voting rights of members
> world-wide
> > and seize the power to appoint the president of TS-Adyar.
> > .
> > Already the GC members have the monopoly to nominate the candidates. This
> > handful were not content with it. They wanted to take away the voting
> rights
> > of the members (disenfranchisement) and take over the power to appoint
> the
> > president, thus make the president a puppet in their hands. This was a
> super
> > secret attempt and not even workers at Adyar and other national
> headquarters
> > knew about it.
> > .
> > It was the good luck of the theosophists and TS, that it was discovered
> > before it is too late and with the help of this maillist, the members
> were
> > made aware of what some of the leaders are up to.
> > .
> > Members world-wide were shocked and dismayed to learn about it. The
> proposal
> > has not been withdrawn. I suppose, the proponents are just waiting for a
> > future opportunity... With the above, many members have a very low level
> of
> > trust in many elected national leaders.
> > .
> > It looks like with the current set of GC members, especially from the
> West,
> > with the above kind of moves, we may have to wait for quite some time so
> > that newer GC members committed to transparency are in place. This is
> just
> > the opinion of a single ordinary member who has not held any positions
> nor
> > planning to hold any and is not dependent on TS for livelyhood.
> > .
> > MKR
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 8:31 AM, robertapimenta26 <
> > robertapimenta26@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi, this is the first time I actually participate, so let me try to say
> > > this: I visited the estate many times over the years and many things
> have
> > > changed since my first visit. Unfortunately, next to the totally
> > > contaminated Adyar river bordering the International Head- quarters, it
> is
> > > said that even nearby hospitals dump their waste in it, the city of
> Chennai
> > > itself, is steadily holding the estate in an almost deadly grip.
> > >
> > > Outside the estate, but from all angles, high flat-buildings are being
> > > constructed and nowadays there is an extremely busy double road (one
> above
> > > the other) right in front of the main entrance. Due to the Chennai
> climate
> > > one can imagine that it is almost impossible to keep the grounds and
> its
> > > buildings in an optimal state; too many circumstances have changed
> since the
> > > Founders actually went there. I would alomst say to those who have
> doubts:
> > > go there and see for yourselves!
> > >
> > > I often popped into the book store, right at the main gate, and at
> times
> > > the smell and noise there were terrible. The 1946 report is outdated,
> that
> > > is for certain. I understand that Mr. Rozman feels that the present
> > > condition of the estate ought to be looked into, and that much more
> > > impartial information on the subject must come from those who are
> > > responsible for the management of Adyar. I agree with what I've read on
> this
> > > site so many times: transparency, transparency, transparency!
> > >
> > > Not only for Adyar-members, but also for theosophists belonging to
> other
> > > groups, independent theosophists like me, and all other seekers, Adyar
> is
> > > too precious; it deserves our love and care...
> > >
> > > Roberta
> > >
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> 40yahoogroups.com>, "Anton
> > > Rozman" <anton_rozman@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Cass, is it not self-obvious?
> > > >
> > > > Who is best informed and responsible for the situation at the TS
> > > Headquarters if not the President and its administration? 15 % of TS
> > > members' annual fees go to Adyar for the maintenance of the Adyar
> Estate and
> > > to cover the expenses of administration and it is members' right to
> know how
> > > and for what purposes this money is spent. You can see that
> Jinarajadasa's
> > > paper was in fact fulfillment of his obligation to provide this
> information
> > > as certain lodge raised such question.
> > > >
> > > > Sections' representatives who attend Annual Meetings of the General
> > > Council have to report to their Sections' members how their money was
> spent
> > > and there were certain allegations made that Adyar Estate is in bad
> shape.
> > > So, it would be natural to see an adequate reaction from the part of
> the
> > > President.
> > > >
> > > > In past year we often stressed the need for transparency. This
> applies to
> > > the work of Sections but even more to the work of the TS Headquarters.
> We
> > > can see that various Sections are now making some humble but concrete
> steps
> > > to meet this need. On the other hand we don't see any progress from the
> part
> > > of the TS Headquarters. There are present only efforts of individual TS
> > > members, as Keith, Ramadoss, Erica, Pedro, William, Ãâ to provide us
> insights
> > > on the situation but any step from the part of the President and its
> > > administration to open some official public line of communication. The
> very
> > > fact that theos_talk represents practically the only forum for
> discussion on
> > > these issues confirms mentioned state of affairs.
> > > >
> > > > With my web site I tried to provide an additional public service in a
> > > form of condensed overviews of discussions on this but also other
> e-mail
> > > lists and blogs and in a form of publication of various articles and
> till
> > > now publicly not available documents and books I inherited from the
> late GS
> > > in Slovenia or acquired by purchase.
> > > >
> > > > Already in my previous discussions on this list I often tried to get
> some
> > > more information on Adyar Estate, its management and its current
> conditions
> > > and to make it public but I wasn't too much successful. Therefore, I
> now
> > > thought that publication of old Jinarajadasa's document I had in my
> archive
> > > could represent good starting point for further collection of data on
> the TS
> > > Headquarters and its management.
> > > >
> > > > Warmest regards,
> > > > Anton
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> 40yahoogroups.com>, Cass
> > > Silva <silva_cass@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Anton, what are you trying to get at?
> > > > > Cass
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >From: Anton Rozman <anton_rozman@>
> > > > > >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009 1:00:58 AM
> > > > > >Subject: Re: Theos-World Adyar Estate
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Well Ramadoss, instead of representatives' experiences I would
> rather
> > > like to see the actual President to follow her predecessor example and
> > > present us equally exhaustive report on the current situation regarding
> the
> > > administration of the TS Headquarters.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Best regards,
> > > > > >Anton
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, MKR <mkr777@> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> A good idea.
> > > > > >> Year after year, many TS leaders have travelled to Adyar at TS
> > > expense and I
> > > > > >> have not seen much written by them about their visits except
> whom
> > > they met,
> > > > > >> had coffee or tea or dinner or supper with etc. Hopefully, those
> > > lurker
> > > > > >> leaders who read this will take time to write about their
> > > experiences at
> > > > > >> Adyar.
> > > > > >> MKR
> > > > > >> More on theosophy at www.theosophy. net
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 3:52 AM, Anton Rozman <anton_rozman@...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Dear friends,
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I have uploaded to the web site an interesting document by C.
> > > Jinarajadasa:
> > > > > >> > "Administration of the Theosophical Headquarters at Adyar,
> > > Madras".
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > http://www.teozofij a.info/Teozofsko _gibanje/ Adyar_Estate_
> > > E.htm
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I would like to complete an overall picture of the Adyar
> Estate
> > > with
> > > > > >> > additional material, therefore I kindly ask all those who are
> in a
> > > > > >> > possession of various documents, photos or personal
> impressions
> > > about the TS
> > > > > >> > Headquarters and would like to share them with other members
> of
> > > the TS to
> > > > > >> > send them to the following e-mail address:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > tsmembers@ . <tsmembers%40teozof ija.info>
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > or safely upload them using a browser on the following page:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > http://www.teozofij a.info/tsmembers /tsupload/ upload.htm
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Warmest regards,
> > > > > >> > Anton
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> > >
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> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>  
>


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