Theos-Talk Archives (June 2009 Message tt00221)

Dear Mr. Ramadoss,

I am convinced that you are a sincere person, and I wrote earlier that I have been following this site for quite some time, so I  read most of your comments on the subject. I have the feeling however,  that you tend to repeat yourself to the extreme!! Forgive me for being frank with you, but I am sure you can do so much better than that. 

No matter what mistakes others might have made, let's for a moment not look back, but concentrate on the future.   I was referring to what Mr. Rozman wrote regarding the Adyar estate, and I thought he made a number of good points there. So, what do you think of his idea, and next to your well known and crystal-clear criticisms regarding others and their failures, what is it that you,  personally,  can positively contribute in  this estate discussion? 

Roberta

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR <mkr777@...> wrote:
>
> I am glad you picked on the key issue - transparency..
> I am not sure if you have followed the events since early last year.
> .
> The height of non-transparency was the ultra-secret attempt by a handful of
> General Council members to take away the voting rights of members world-wide
> and seize the power to appoint the president of TS-Adyar.
> .
> Already the GC members have the monopoly to nominate the candidates. This
> handful were not content with it. They wanted to take away the voting rights
> of the members (disenfranchisement) and take over the power to appoint the
> president, thus make the president a puppet in their hands. This was a super
> secret attempt and not even workers at Adyar and other national headquarters
> knew about it.
> .
> It was the good luck of the theosophists and TS, that it was discovered
> before it is too late and with the help of this maillist, the members were
> made aware of what some of the leaders are up to.
> .
> Members world-wide were shocked and dismayed to learn about it. The proposal
> has not been withdrawn. I suppose, the proponents are just waiting for a
> future opportunity...  With the above, many members have a very low level of
> trust in many elected national leaders.
> .
> It looks like with  the current set of GC members, especially from the West,
> with the above kind of moves, we may have to wait for quite some time so
> that newer GC members committed to transparency are in place. This is just
> the opinion of a single ordinary member who has not held any positions nor
> planning to hold any and is not dependent on TS for livelyhood.
> .
> MKR
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 8:31 AM, robertapimenta26 <
> robertapimenta26@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Hi, this is the first time I actually participate, so let me try to say
> > this: I visited the estate many times over the years and many things have
> > changed since my first visit. Unfortunately, next to the totally
> > contaminated Adyar river bordering the International Head- quarters, it is
> > said that even nearby hospitals dump their waste in it, the city of Chennai
> > itself, is steadily holding the estate in an almost deadly grip.
> >
> > Outside the estate, but from all angles, high flat-buildings are being
> > constructed and nowadays there is an extremely busy double road (one above
> > the other) right in front of the main entrance. Due to the Chennai climate
> > one can imagine that it is almost impossible to keep the grounds and its
> > buildings in an optimal state; too many circumstances have changed since the
> > Founders actually went there. I would alomst say to those who have doubts:
> > go there and see for yourselves!
> >
> > I often popped into the book store, right at the main gate, and at times
> > the smell and noise there were terrible. The 1946 report is outdated, that
> > is for certain. I understand that Mr. Rozman feels that the present
> > condition of the estate ought to be looked into, and that much more
> > impartial information on the subject must come from those who are
> > responsible for the management of Adyar. I agree with what I've read on this
> > site so many times: transparency, transparency, transparency!
> >
> > Not only for Adyar-members, but also for theosophists belonging to other
> > groups, independent theosophists like me, and all other seekers, Adyar is
> > too precious; it deserves our love and care...
> >
> > Roberta
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>, "Anton
> > Rozman" <anton_rozman@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Cass, is it not self-obvious?
> > >
> > > Who is best informed and responsible for the situation at the TS
> > Headquarters if not the President and its administration? 15 % of TS
> > members' annual fees go to Adyar for the maintenance of the Adyar Estate and
> > to cover the expenses of administration and it is members' right to know how
> > and for what purposes this money is spent. You can see that Jinarajadasa's
> > paper was in fact fulfillment of his obligation to provide this information
> > as certain lodge raised such question.
> > >
> > > Sections' representatives who attend Annual Meetings of the General
> > Council have to report to their Sections' members how their money was spent
> > and there were certain allegations made that Adyar Estate is in bad shape.
> > So, it would be natural to see an adequate reaction from the part of the
> > President.
> > >
> > > In past year we often stressed the need for transparency. This applies to
> > the work of Sections but even more to the work of the TS Headquarters. We
> > can see that various Sections are now making some humble but concrete steps
> > to meet this need. On the other hand we don't see any progress from the part
> > of the TS Headquarters. There are present only efforts of individual TS
> > members, as Keith, Ramadoss, Erica, Pedro, William, â?¦ to provide us insights
> > on the situation but any step from the part of the President and its
> > administration to open some official public line of communication. The very
> > fact that theos_talk represents practically the only forum for discussion on
> > these issues confirms mentioned state of affairs.
> > >
> > > With my web site I tried to provide an additional public service in a
> > form of condensed overviews of discussions on this but also other e-mail
> > lists and blogs and in a form of publication of various articles and till
> > now publicly not available documents and books I inherited from the late GS
> > in Slovenia or acquired by purchase.
> > >
> > > Already in my previous discussions on this list I often tried to get some
> > more information on Adyar Estate, its management and its current conditions
> > and to make it public but I wasn't too much successful. Therefore, I now
> > thought that publication of old Jinarajadasa's document I had in my archive
> > could represent good starting point for further collection of data on the TS
> > Headquarters and its management.
> > >
> > > Warmest regards,
> > > Anton
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>, Cass
> > Silva <silva_cass@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Anton, what are you trying to get at?
> > > > Cass
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >From: Anton Rozman <anton_rozman@>
> > > > >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > >Sent: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009 1:00:58 AM
> > > > >Subject: Re: Theos-World Adyar Estate
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Well Ramadoss, instead of representatives' experiences I would rather
> > like to see the actual President to follow her predecessor example and
> > present us equally exhaustive report on the current situation regarding the
> > administration of the TS Headquarters.
> > > > >
> > > > >Best regards,
> > > > >Anton
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, MKR <mkr777@> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> A good idea.
> > > > >> Year after year, many TS leaders have travelled to Adyar at TS
> > expense and I
> > > > >> have not seen much written by them about their visits except whom
> > they met,
> > > > >> had coffee or tea or dinner or supper with etc. Hopefully, those
> > lurker
> > > > >> leaders who read this will take time to write about their
> > experiences at
> > > > >> Adyar.
> > > > >> MKR
> > > > >> More on theosophy at www.theosophy. net
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 3:52 AM, Anton Rozman <anton_rozman@ ...>
> > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Dear friends,
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I have uploaded to the web site an interesting document by C.
> > Jinarajadasa:
> > > > >> > "Administration of the Theosophical Headquarters at Adyar,
> > Madras".
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > http://www.teozofij a.info/Teozofsko _gibanje/ Adyar_Estate_
> > E.htm
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I would like to complete an overall picture of the Adyar Estate
> > with
> > > > >> > additional material, therefore I kindly ask all those who are in a
> > > > >> > possession of various documents, photos or personal impressions
> > about the TS
> > > > >> > Headquarters and would like to share them with other members of
> > the TS to
> > > > >> > send them to the following e-mail address:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > tsmembers@ . <tsmembers%40teozof ija.info>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > or safely upload them using a browser on the following page:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > http://www.teozofij a.info/tsmembers /tsupload/ upload.htm
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Warmest regards,
> > > > >> > Anton
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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