Theos-Talk Archives (May 2009 Message tt00596)

Dear Frank,

Yes, Daniel already pointed out the "outer Head" phrase, and I had 
already previously commented upon it.  But to briefly re-cap, I had 
asked for an instance where Blavatsky herself used the title "Outer 
Head."  As far as I know, no such document exists, nor have I seen any 
evidence of any such document ever existing.  Daniel, appears to share 
my opinion.  

As for Judge, during HPB's time, he signed his ES circulars as 
"Secretary."   When Besant and Judge jointly send out ES circulars, they 
signed their names, without title.   During the period when Besant and 
Judge ceased to jointly send out circulars, I have found no documents 
where Judge signed himself as "Outer Head."  If you know of one, please 
let me know.  So, as far as the Adyar ES, goes, the first use of the 
title "Outer Head" appears to have been used by Besant. 

You wrote:
"Even if HPB did not use the term but a term similar to it, she hold the
position of an outer Head, even if you call it Daisy Duck."

There is the rub, and a very large part of my reason for raising this 
point. When successors to a position come to power, they will govern 
according to their own vision and understanding concerning their office. 
When such a leader assumes a title that was not previously used, I pay 
close attention. It is usually a sign that they are embarking in a new 
direction. 

You wrote:
"I had only hoped that more information about the hidden comminucation
between HPB/Tingley, HPB/Purucker and Judge/Purucker would have come to
light.It would have been justified KT's founding of the Mystery School 
in the
West, the highest hope of HPB."

A member of our group has been researching the Judge case for about 13 
years now and is ready to publish his results.  I think you will enjoy 
his discussion concerning Judge's vision for the TS, in comparison and 
contrast to Besant's. 

Best
Jerry






Frank Reitemeyer wrote:
>
>
> Dear Jerry,
>
> the Pledge document has the date imprint of 1891 and the Pledge is 
> directed
> "to one of the outer Heads", which were Judge and Besant.
> HPB made Besant her exoteric successor of her TS post and Judge her 
> esoteric
> successor of her ES post.
> So it is most unlikely that Judge would have been silent if Besant would
> have invented the term outer Head behind his back.
>
> Daniel has in his valuable ES Papers compilation more such documents from
> Judge, where the term O.H. is used.
> HPB said that Judge was part of her since aeons and she trusted him
> completely in occult matters.
> Even without body she did not left him alone.
> So it is most unlikely that Judge had invented the term without approval
> from HPB.
>
> Re "The Judge case": The author writes on p. 215:
>
> "NOTE: the "Outer Head" was never a position held by either H.P.B. or
> W.Q.J."
>
> This is complete wrong as to the position, as both hold actually this
> position, no matter, whether HPB had used the term.
> Even if HPB did not use the term but a term similar to it, she hold the
> position of an outer Head, even if you call it Daisy Duck.
>
> To stick on words and term and ignore the spiritual impact is a 
> dead-letter
> ideology which is prefered by the Johnston and Crosbie lineage.
> A kind of Hinayana theosophy.
>
> The same quarrel could be provoked if one would argue that HPB was an
> Avatara and dead-letter/pseudo/Hinayana theosophists would protest 
> that they
> have not found any document where she states that she was an Avatara.
>
> BTW, I have informed the author long ago when the book came out about my
> view on O.H. These little error does in no way belittle the superb 
> impact of
> the book - the defense of Judge the teacher against 100 years of lies and
> slander and misunderstanding and ignorance.
> I had only hoped that more information about the hidden comminucation
> between HPB/Tingley, HPB/Purucker and Judge/Purucker would have come to
> light.
> It would have been justified KT's founding of the Mystery School in the
> West, the highest hope of HPB.
>
> Frank
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jerry Hejka-Ekins
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 1:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Query regarding "Outer Head"
>
> Dear Frank,
>
> You wrote:
> "One should bear in mind the "Pledge of Probationers of the Eastern
> School" as of 1891, which R.A.Gilbertin has published in his booklet
> "The Golden Dawn and the Esoteric Section",. Theosophy History Centre,
> London 1987, p.22 and of which a transcript can be found on the web as
> Document No. 6 at:
> http://www.dilloo.de/doc.htm#Schweigen_Eastern_School 
> <http://www.dilloo.de/doc.htm#Schweigen_Eastern_School>
> <http://www.dilloo.de/doc.htm#Schweigen_Eastern_School 
> <http://www.dilloo.de/doc.htm#Schweigen_Eastern_School>>
> >From this it is quite clear that the rumors of the anti Besant faction
> are wrong, who believe that the term O.H. was an invention of Besant."
>
> What is your evidence in the "Pledge of Probationers of the Eastern
> School" that shows that the term "Outer Head" was not an invention of
> Besant? Please make a specific citation and explain your case.
>
> You wrote:
> "This rumor found also entry into the valubable book "The Judge case"."
>
> Please cite page and paragraph you have in mind from this pamphlet and
> explain your case.
>
> Thanks
> Jerry
>
> Frank Reitemeyer wrote:
> >
> >
> > One should bear in mind the "Pledge of Probationers of the Eastern
> > School" as of 1891, which R.A.Gilbertin has published in his booklet
> > "The Golden Dawn and the Esoteric Section",. Theosophy History Centre,
> > London 1987, p.22 and of which a transcript can be found on the web as
> > Document No. 6 at:
> >
> > http://www.dilloo.de/doc.htm#Schweigen_Eastern_School 
> <http://www.dilloo.de/doc.htm#Schweigen_Eastern_School>
> > <http://www.dilloo.de/doc.htm#Schweigen_Eastern_School 
> <http://www.dilloo.de/doc.htm#Schweigen_Eastern_School>>
> >
> > >From this it is quite clear that the rumors of the anti Besant
> > faction are wrong, who believe that the term O.H. was an invention of
> > Besant.
> > This rumor found also entry into the valubable book "The Judge case".
> >
> > One should also bear in mind that AB was made a pupil in the E.S.
> > which she entered in 1889 and her status as joint O.H. was that on
> > prabation only, while Judge was a teacher in the E.S. and member of it
> > since 1875. When Master K.H. ended her probation in 1895 she had no
> > worldly and no occult right to claim occult status in 1897 again,
> > therefore her cant about Masters has had to stop.
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > PLEDGE OF PROBATIONERS
> > IN THE
> > EASTERN SCHOOL OF THEOSOPHY.
> > ------------------------------
> > I Pledge myself to endeavour to make Theosophy a
> > living power in my life.
> > I pledge myself to support before the world the
> > Theosophical movement, and in particular to answer
> > and obey, without cavil or delay, all orders given
> > me through the outer Heads of this School, in all
> > that concerns my Theosophical duties and Esoteric
> > work, so far as I can do so without violating my
> > positive obligations under the moral law and the
> > laws of the land; and I expressly agree that I may
> > be expelled from the School and that the fact of
> > such expulsion may be made known to its members,
> > should I violate this pledge of obedience and
> > secrecy.
> > I pledge myself never to listen, without protest,
> > to any evil thing spoken falsely, or yet unproven,
> > of a brother Theosophist, and to abstain from
> > condemning others.
> > I pledge myself to maintain a constant struggle
> > against my lower nature, and to be charitable to
> > the weaknesses of others.
> > I pledge myself to do all in my power, by study
> > and oterhwise, to fit myself to help and teach
> > others.
> > I pledge myself to give what support I can to the
> > Theosophical movement, in time, money, and work.
> > I pledge myself to preserve inviolable secrecy as
> > regards the signs and passwords of the School and
> > all confidential documents; and to return the
> > latter to one of the outer Heads of the School, or
> > their agents, in case of my resignation, or when
> > requested by them to do so.
> > To all of which I pledge my most solemn and sacred
> > word of honour.
> > So help me, my Higher Self.
> > Dated at
> > .......................................... the
> > ............................. day of
> > ............................. 1891.
> > Name in full
> > ...............................................................
> > Please state:
> > 1. What is your age?
> > 2. Are you a member of a Branch T.S. and which, or
> > are you an unattached F.T.S.?
> > 3. Are you married or single?
> > Please send your photograph.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jerry Hejka-Ekins
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com> 
> <mailto:theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:04 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Query regarding "Outer Head"
> >
> > Dear Cass,
> >
> > My understanding is that Annie Besant used the title to mean that she
> > was the Head of the Esoteric School and sole (or, perhaps, final)
> > spokesperson for the Masters in matters concerning that School.
> >
> > But actually, your question is a further illustration of the point that
> > I was trying to make by bringing up the subject in the first place.
> > That new terms and titles appeared after HPB died, and that we need to
> > be careful about applying them retroactively to her time. Your question
> > includes two more of those terms: "The Inner Government" and "The Great
> > White Brotherhood." Both terms are commonly seen in Annie Besant and
> > C. W. Leadbeater's writings, and later. However, HPB never (as far as I
> > know) used those terms.
> >
> > Best
> > Jerry
> >
> > Cass Silva wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Doesn't outer head imply that HPB was not one of the inner government
> > > of masters or The White Brotherhood?
> > >
> > > Cass
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Jerry Hejka-Ekins <jjhe@charter.net <mailto:jjhe%40charter.net>
> > <mailto:jjhe%40charter.net> <mailto:jjhe%40charter.net>>
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com> 
> <mailto:theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, 15 May, 2009 10:53:24 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Query regarding "Outer Head"
> > >
> > > Hello Daniel,
> > >
> > > Yes, your link works. The link went to p. 323 where Judge, announcing
> > > HPB's death, refers to her as ..."outer Head of the Section." Thanks.
> > >
> > > If Judge capitalized both words, i.e. "Outer Head," I would take 
> it as a
> > > title. Otherwise, I think Judge meant that HPB's title was "Head 
> of the
> > > [European ] Section [of the E.S], and he added the modifier of "outer"
> > > to distinguish her from her teacher, who might then be called the 
> inner
> > > Head of the E.S. On the other hand, it could be a typo, and Judge
> > > really meant to write "Outer Head." But if this is the case, and if I
> > > am correct that HPB never used the title "Outer Head", then it would
> > > have been Judge who meant to coin that title for HPB. But when Besant
> > > and Judge jointly led the EST, they both took (at least in the
> > > beginning) a much humbler pose and signed their joint circulars 
> without
> > > titles.
> > >
> > > Anyway, it is an interesting point, and is possible that Besant read
> > > "outer Head" as "Outer Head" and assumed that title for herself after
> > > the Judge split in the Spring of 1895. Also, Katherine Tingley was
> > > dubbed "Outer Head" by her followers in the May 21, 1896 Point 
> Loma line
> > > circular--a year after Judge died.
> > >
> > > However, my original question was: Where (if anywhere) does HPB
> > > /herself/ use the title "Outer Head"? Have you anything on this?
> > >
> > > Best
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > > danielhcaldwell wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Jerry,
> > > >
> > > > Well, look here:
> > > >
> > > > http://tinyurl. com/psmbsu <http://tinyurl. com/psmbsu>
> > > >
> > > > If this link works, it will go to p. 323 of my ESOTERIC PAPERS OF
> > > > MADAME BLAVATSKY.
> > > >
> > > > See what Judge writes upon HPB's death.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know if this would be considered a "title" but Judge 
> does use
> > > > the two words together to describe HPB.
> > > >
> > > > What do you think?
> > > >
> > > > Daniel
> > > > http://hpb.cc
> > > >
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > > > <mailto:theos- talk%40yahoogrou ps.com>, Jerry Hejka-Ekins
> > > <jjhe@...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear Friends,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been unable to find any documents, inside or outside of the
> > > E.S.
> > > > > where H.P.B. uses the title "Outer Head." As far as I have 
> been able
> > > > > to determine, this title was first used by Annie Besant. Does 
> anyone
> > > > > here know of any documents where H.P.B. uses the title "Outer 
> Head"?
> > > > >
> > > > > Best
> > > > > Jerry
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In a recent post, someone wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "O.H. stand for Outer Head, a term coined by HPB for the 
> responsible
> > > > > messenger who is the teacher and the link."
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter
> > >
> > 
> now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline 
> <now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline>
> > 
> <now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline 
> <now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline>>
> >
> > >
> > 
> <now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline 
> <now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline>
> > 
> <now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline 
> <now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline>>>
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]