Theos-Talk Archives (April 2009 Message tt00437)

A constant sense of abject dependence upon a Deity which he regards as the sole source of power makes a man lose all self-reliance and the spurs to activity and initiative. Having begun by creating a father and guide unto himself, he becomes like a boy and remains so to his old age, expecting to be led by the hand on the smallest as well as the greatest events of life. 
The saying, 'Help thyself, and God will help thee', he so interprets that when an undertaking results to his own advantage, he credits it to himself only; when a failure, he charges it to the will of his God. 




________________________________
From: Anand <AnandGholap@gmail.com>
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 29 April, 2009 9:35:31 AM
Subject: Theos-World Re: ??? MORAL LEADERSHIP ??? online communication





The failure of Theosophy in the West is more because of unwise actions of members of the TS, and individuals related to Theosophy. Officers can guide TS in right direction. But as they are democratically elected, they tend to fulfill wishes of people, to some extent, even if they would have done things differently, had they no pressure to fulfill wishes of people.
Some of the online individuals who did much damage to Theosophical movement are these. Reed Carson, the owner of Blavatsky.net who made Theosophical movement extremely dogmatic around Blavatsky's writing. Another individual who did much damage to Theosophical movement is Katinka Hesselink, who spread wrong teaching of J. Krishnamurti in Theosophical Society and thereby misled members of TS into believing that J. Krishnamurti' s teaching is Theosophy. 
Third individual who did much damage to Theosophical movement is Daniel Caldwell. He did damage by regularly attacking Adyar TS, it's leaders, past and present, and their teachings. 
These are some of the individuals who did much damage to Theosophical movement by their online activities.

Anand Gholap

--- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, MKR <mkr777@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All
> Thanks for the response, Katinka.
> 
> As for theos-talk, all I have been doing is posting messages to the best of
> my ability. (Some may call it monologue; so be it!!!) Theos-talk is the only
> forum that we have to deal with the administrative issues. There is no other
> way to distribute information and opinions and objections on issues and
> developments, since from time to time there is a conflict of interests
> between the leadership and the members and the organization and the Cause.
> Other than our time, it is free to post msgs here.
> 
> As I had already mentioned earlier, Katinka has done a wonderful job in the
> cyberspace at this young age. We all should be thankful to her for what she
> has done. We can expect much more in the future, since the future medium of
> action is cyberspace. (Are leaders listening?)
> 
> Only few of us, by Karma, are positioned to take up theosophical work
> full-time. I am recalling the incident regarding Helen Zahara, years ago.
> She was trained as Chartered Accountant and was keen on working full-time
> for TS. CJ who was President at that time, told her that TS does not have
> funds to pay her compensation she can command in business. Hence, he told
> her to go out and work in the business and after having saved enough, come
> back to TS and work full-time. She followed his advise. As her Karma
> decided, she died couple of years after she started working full time for TS
> and she was still young and was in prime of her life. I expect that in
> KatinkaÃââs future, there would come a time when she is financially
> self-sufficient that she can work full time for TS.
> 
> Coming to TS events since early last year. Many leaders around the world
> have taken some missteps. We all make mistakes. What is more important is to
> quickly recognize the mistakes early and acknowledge the mistakes and move
> to fix them quickly. It needs a lot of wisdom and courage to identify the
> mistakes and own them and apologize for the mistakes. We can take a lesson
> from the Japanese. We have seen many leaders, publicly acknowledge mistakes
> and even kill themselves (Harakiri! We can find some swords if needed from
> our Japanese friends!). Chuck, do you know some sources? (Just kidding) I
> am not suggesting our leaders should kill themselves for their mistakes.
> 
> Once the errors and mistakes are recognized and aggressive steps taken to
> fix them, membership is usually generous and forgiving. When this is not
> done, the average member sees the hypocrisy and the reputation of leader and
> membersÃââ trust in the leaders take a downfall drip drip and drip.
> 
> One of the most unique things about TS is the total autonomy of the lodges
> and the sections in their activities. For example, when I lived in India, if
> you ask the lodge members who the National Secretary is, 9 out of 10 would
> not know. This is because there is practically no interference from the top.
> 
> This autonomous setup allows each lodge and section to come up with their
> own activities using the local ingenuity to fit into local culture and
> societal needs. While much noise was created last year about the rules and
> regulations and hair splitting went on, rules and regulations have no effect
> on how dynamic a lodge or a section is. Rules do not bring in members or
> retain them. It is the activities, that does.
> 
> Again, I think at our lodge and section levels, we need to brainstorm and
> come up with some creative activities which would draw the attention of the
> world around them. If anyone thinks I am wrong, I want to hear from them.
> 
> MKR
> 
> THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Katinka Hesselink <
> mail@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > MKR - did you miss the wink I'd put in there ;) ? But seriously, I do think
> > you have place of informal leadership here on theos-talk at least. And I've
> > personally learned a lot from you.
> >
> > My name does seem to be mentioned a lot in regard to leadership roles - but
> > there is a very good practical reason why it's not my time: I can't afford
> > to put my life on hold for full time volunteer work right now, nor in the
> > foreseeable future. There is a very practical reason why our leaders are
> > mostly retired: how else can they do the work? Unless there's a working
> > partner of course with a very good income.
> >
> > As for Betty - I think it's pretty clear to most observers that she's made
> > some serious mistakes.
> >
> > I don't think though that a formal investigation would help. Individual
> > sections just need to get on with the work of getting in touch with the
> > world of spirituality & responding to the main challenges of our time. And
> > to some extent they are doing so. The TSA has founded an active online forum
> > & had great brainstorm sessions apparently at Krotona. The next step of
> > course is to put all that into action locally as well as online.
> >
> > Activities have to be rethought very seriously - how can a balance be found
> > between serious theosophical lectures and programs that fit the general
> > spiritually interested public we'd also like to attract? What themes are we
> > not addressing at all, despite the fact that they belong to the central
> > topics theosophists study and think about? And so on.
> >
> > En Martin: dat liedje hoor ik al mijn hele leven :)
> >
> > Katinka
> > http://www.allconsi dering.com/
> > http://www.katinkah esselink. net/
> > http://www.overpein zende.nl/
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups. com>, Martin
> > <Mvandertak@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > I agree, Katinka for president!
> > >
> > > ( Kleine kokette Katinka
> > > Kijk nou eens een keertje om
> > > Stiekempjes over je schouder
> > > Je ma ziet het toch niet dus kom
> > > Kleine kokette Katinka
> > > Ben je verlegen misschien
> > > We willen zo graag nog heel even
> > > Een glimp van je wipneusje zien )
> > >
> > > --- On Mon, 4/27/09, MKR <mkr777@> wrote:
> > > From: MKR <mkr777@>
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: ??? MORAL LEADERSHIP ??? online
> > communication
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups. com>
> > > Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 2:53 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have to strongly disagree, being mentioned along with Joy and John. I
> > am
> > >
> > > too far away from that high level.
> > >
> > > I am simply a messenger and an ordinary member. (Never held any position
> > in
> > >
> > > TS admin and nor planning to.) My only contribution is to post some
> > messages
> > >
> > > on theos-talk. I would say Katinka should be included in the list since
> > she
> > >
> > > has contributed a lot in cyberspace over the years giving a good feedback
> > on
> > >
> > > the various issues and providing valuable reference material.
> > >
> > > MKR
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 7:10 AM, Katinka Hesselink <
> > >
> > > mail@katinkahesseli nk.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > There's formal leadership (Radha, Betty, Kim Dieu) and informal
> > leadership
> > >
> > > > (Joy Mills, John Algeo, MKR ;) ). When leadership fails people look to
> > the
> > >
> > > > informal leaders. If they don't choose to step in, that's their
> > prerogative.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> > 
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





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