Theos-Talk Archives (April 2009 Message tt00459)

My view is, that if a person honestly are seeking the truth, they cannot damage anything.
Whereas those who deliberately are liars and cheats are no good. HPB said something like that somewhere in her letters to A. P. Sinnett about Bobajee and another theosophists while talking about them.


M. Sufilight

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: MKR 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 1:53 AM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: ??? MORAL LEADERSHIP ??? online communication





  I totally disagree with your assessment of individuals and what they have
  contributed.

  One thing that has kept me as a theosophist is that no one has told me what
  to read or what not to read, what to believe or what not to believe.

  From time to time, I have benefitted by everyone in cyberspace -- Reed,
  Katinka, Daniel and even Anand others known and unknown.

  I have read from time to time what many authors have to say and made up my
  own mind since I do not want to a second hand mind!!!

  Most organizational leaders do not like independent thinkers because you
  cannot brainwash them and they are impossible to influence or control.

  The Cause at hand is too important and serious and it is going to survive
  after we are gone -- some sooner and other later.

  MKR

  On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 6:35 PM, Anand <AnandGholap@gmail.com> wrote:

  >
  >
  > The failure of Theosophy in the West is more because of unwise actions of
  > members of the TS, and individuals related to Theosophy. Officers can guide
  > TS in right direction. But as they are democratically elected, they tend to
  > fulfill wishes of people, to some extent, even if they would have done
  > things differently, had they no pressure to fulfill wishes of people.
  > Some of the online individuals who did much damage to Theosophical movement
  > are these. Reed Carson, the owner of Blavatsky.net who made Theosophical
  > movement extremely dogmatic around Blavatsky's writing. Another individual
  > who did much damage to Theosophical movement is Katinka Hesselink, who
  > spread wrong teaching of J. Krishnamurti in Theosophical Society and thereby
  > misled members of TS into believing that J. Krishnamurti's teaching is
  > Theosophy.
  > Third individual who did much damage to Theosophical movement is Daniel
  > Caldwell. He did damage by regularly attacking Adyar TS, it's leaders, past
  > and present, and their teachings.
  > These are some of the individuals who did much damage to Theosophical
  > movement by their online activities.
  >
  > Anand Gholap
  >
  >
  > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>, MKR
  > <mkr777@...> wrote:
  > >
  > > Hi All
  > > Thanks for the response, Katinka.
  > >
  > > As for theos-talk, all I have been doing is posting messages to the best
  > of
  > > my ability. (Some may call it monologue; so be it!!!) Theos-talk is the
  > only
  > > forum that we have to deal with the administrative issues. There is no
  > other
  > > way to distribute information and opinions and objections on issues and
  > > developments, since from time to time there is a conflict of interests
  > > between the leadership and the members and the organization and the
  > Cause.
  > > Other than our time, it is free to post msgs here.
  > >
  > > As I had already mentioned earlier, Katinka has done a wonderful job in
  > the
  > > cyberspace at this young age. We all should be thankful to her for what
  > she
  > > has done. We can expect much more in the future, since the future medium
  > of
  > > action is cyberspace. (Are leaders listening?)
  > >
  > > Only few of us, by Karma, are positioned to take up theosophical work
  > > full-time. I am recalling the incident regarding Helen Zahara, years ago.
  > > She was trained as Chartered Accountant and was keen on working full-time
  > > for TS. CJ who was President at that time, told her that TS does not have
  > > funds to pay her compensation she can command in business. Hence, he told
  > > her to go out and work in the business and after having saved enough,
  > come
  > > back to TS and work full-time. She followed his advise. As her Karma
  > > decided, she died couple of years after she started working full time for
  > TS
  > > and she was still young and was in prime of her life. I expect that in
  > > KatinkaÃââs future, there would come a time when she is financially
  > > self-sufficient that she can work full time for TS.
  > >
  > > Coming to TS events since early last year. Many leaders around the world
  > > have taken some missteps. We all make mistakes. What is more important is
  > to
  > > quickly recognize the mistakes early and acknowledge the mistakes and
  > move
  > > to fix them quickly. It needs a lot of wisdom and courage to identify the
  > > mistakes and own them and apologize for the mistakes. We can take a
  > lesson
  > > from the Japanese. We have seen many leaders, publicly acknowledge
  > mistakes
  > > and even kill themselves (Harakiri! We can find some swords if needed
  > from
  > > our Japanese friends!). Chuck, do you know some sources? (Just kidding) I
  > > am not suggesting our leaders should kill themselves for their mistakes.
  > >
  > > Once the errors and mistakes are recognized and aggressive steps taken to
  > > fix them, membership is usually generous and forgiving. When this is not
  > > done, the average member sees the hypocrisy and the reputation of leader
  > and
  > > membersÃââ trust in the leaders take a downfall drip drip and drip.
  > >
  > > One of the most unique things about TS is the total autonomy of the
  > lodges
  > > and the sections in their activities. For example, when I lived in India,
  > if
  > > you ask the lodge members who the National Secretary is, 9 out of 10
  > would
  > > not know. This is because there is practically no interference from the
  > top.
  > >
  > > This autonomous setup allows each lodge and section to come up with their
  > > own activities using the local ingenuity to fit into local culture and
  > > societal needs. While much noise was created last year about the rules
  > and
  > > regulations and hair splitting went on, rules and regulations have no
  > effect
  > > on how dynamic a lodge or a section is. Rules do not bring in members or
  > > retain them. It is the activities, that does.
  > >
  > > Again, I think at our lodge and section levels, we need to brainstorm and
  > > come up with some creative activities which would draw the attention of
  > the
  > > world around them. If anyone thinks I am wrong, I want to hear from them.
  > >
  > > MKR
  > >
  > > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Katinka Hesselink <
  > > mail@...> wrote:
  > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > Hi all,
  > > >
  > > > MKR - did you miss the wink I'd put in there ;) ? But seriously, I do
  > think
  > > > you have place of informal leadership here on theos-talk at least. And
  > I've
  > > > personally learned a lot from you.
  > > >
  > > > My name does seem to be mentioned a lot in regard to leadership roles -
  > but
  > > > there is a very good practical reason why it's not my time: I can't
  > afford
  > > > to put my life on hold for full time volunteer work right now, nor in
  > the
  > > > foreseeable future. There is a very practical reason why our leaders
  > are
  > > > mostly retired: how else can they do the work? Unless there's a working
  > > > partner of course with a very good income.
  > > >
  > > > As for Betty - I think it's pretty clear to most observers that she's
  > made
  > > > some serious mistakes.
  > > >
  > > > I don't think though that a formal investigation would help. Individual
  > > > sections just need to get on with the work of getting in touch with the
  > > > world of spirituality & responding to the main challenges of our time.
  > And
  > > > to some extent they are doing so. The TSA has founded an active online
  > forum
  > > > & had great brainstorm sessions apparently at Krotona. The next step of
  > > > course is to put all that into action locally as well as online.
  > > >
  > > > Activities have to be rethought very seriously - how can a balance be
  > found
  > > > between serious theosophical lectures and programs that fit the general
  > > > spiritually interested public we'd also like to attract? What themes
  > are we
  > > > not addressing at all, despite the fact that they belong to the central
  > > > topics theosophists study and think about? And so on.
  > > >
  > > > En Martin: dat liedje hoor ik al mijn hele leven :)
  > > >
  > > > Katinka
  > > > http://www.allconsidering.com/
  > > > http://www.katinkahesselink.net/
  > > > http://www.overpeinzende.nl/
  > > >
  > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
  > 40yahoogroups.com>, Martin
  > > > <Mvandertak@> wrote:
  > > > >
  > > > > I agree, Katinka for president!
  > > > >
  > > > > ( Kleine kokette Katinka
  > > > > Kijk nou eens een keertje om
  > > > > Stiekempjes over je schouder
  > > > > Je ma ziet het toch niet dus kom
  > > > > Kleine kokette Katinka
  > > > > Ben je verlegen misschien
  > > > > We willen zo graag nog heel even
  > > > > Een glimp van je wipneusje zien )
  > > > >
  > > > > --- On Mon, 4/27/09, MKR <mkr777@> wrote:
  > > > > From: MKR <mkr777@>
  > > > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: ??? MORAL LEADERSHIP ??? online
  > > > communication
  > > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
  > 40yahoogroups.com>
  >
  > > > > Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 2:53 PM
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > > I have to strongly disagree, being mentioned along with Joy and John.
  > I
  > > > am
  > > > >
  > > > > too far away from that high level.
  > > > >
  > > > > I am simply a messenger and an ordinary member. (Never held any
  > position
  > > > in
  > > > >
  > > > > TS admin and nor planning to.) My only contribution is to post some
  > > > messages
  > > > >
  > > > > on theos-talk. I would say Katinka should be included in the list
  > since
  > > > she
  > > > >
  > > > > has contributed a lot in cyberspace over the years giving a good
  > feedback
  > > > on
  > > > >
  > > > > the various issues and providing valuable reference material.
  > > > >
  > > > > MKR
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > > On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 7:10 AM, Katinka Hesselink <
  > > > >
  > > > > mail@katinkahesseli nk.net> wrote:
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > > > There's formal leadership (Radha, Betty, Kim Dieu) and informal
  > > > leadership
  > > > >
  > > > > > (Joy Mills, John Algeo, MKR ;) ). When leadership fails people look
  > to
  > > > the
  > > > >
  > > > > > informal leaders. If they don't choose to step in, that's their
  > > > prerogative.
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
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  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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  > 
  >

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