Theos-Talk Archives (April 2009 Message tt00247)

Daniel is assuming that HPB was a successful reformer in spiritual field. This claim needs to be examined. When HPB was alive, she was neither popular in the East, nor in the West. After her death writings of Annie Besant and C.W. Leadbeater became popular. These two later writers brought glory to Theosophy. As HPB was founder of TS, she got glorified. But a researcher should see what HPB could do on her own independent strength. As I said earlier, HPB's theosophy was not much popular in the East and the West when she was alive. 
Best
Anand Gholap



--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Govert Schuller" <schuller@...> wrote:
>
> Daniel asked: "Where do you start?" [in figuring out all the post-HPB claims of contact with the same Masters she claimed to have worked with]
> 
> Maybe, and this is tentatively, by combining the following ideas:
> 
> 1) HPB is not infallible, therefore any pronouncements about later messengers might not be necessarily true.
> 
> 2) As per HPB, there might have been a messenger active during the 1975-2000 period (of course this claim of HPB might also not be true as per 1). This should give a certain motivation to engage in some detective work.
> 
> 3) Initiates, adpets, messengers, avatars have come and gone throughout history. HPB is unique, but one has to be careful not to make her into the first and last pope of theosophy. 
> 
> 4) HPB's writings might have fulfilled a certain role in her own time, but it is possible that the Masters came to the conclusion that other ways of bringing Theosophy to the public should be attempted. Anrias makes a case for that idea, saying that the life-style of the average man in the West was not conducive to get the intended transformative effect of studying the SD. consequently a more ritualistic track had to be persued.
> 
> 5) HPB's prophecied "torch bearer of truth" indicates that the Masters had some more plans up their sleeves than just leaving mankind with HPB's writings. The World Teacher project with Krishnamurti in relation to HPB's writings can be interpreted such that the Masters indeed moved on and even had a role for CWL and AB. 
> 
> 6) As HPB and the TS were a project of M and KH for which they asked permission from their superiors, there is no a priori reason to exclude the possibility that another Master might have asked for something similar. For example, it is the founding story of the Ascended Master groups that Saint Germain asked for such permission and reveived it. 
> 
> 7) There might be situations where the Masters will have to activate some initiates into the public forum for a specific purpose. For example Scott and Anrias to counteract the devastating effects of the failure of the WT project.
> 
> 8) It is not impossible to develop HPB-independent criteria by which all post-HPB claims can be measured with. With this I mean that we do not have to take HPB as the measuring rod, but should carefully create our own and some of which can be legitimately derived from HPB. 
> 
> Any of these ideas just mentioned might be shot down by adhering to a dogmatic interpretation of HPB, which is fine as long as she fulfills your criteria for truth, or you chose to make a leap of faith, or made any other choice that put you into such position. With all respect, I'm not there. For me the linch-pin of the whole issue is the genuine but failed WT project and it is from there that I reason back into its past build-up with HPB and the TS and reason into its future consequences with Scott, Anrias, Ballard and Prophet. 
> 
> Govert
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: danielhcaldwell 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:43 PM
>   Subject: Theos-World Who Do You Read? What Do You Believe?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Dr. Gordon Melton, an expert on modern cults and minority religions, has written: 
> 
>   "A number of individuals have claimed contact with one of the Masters FIRST described by Blavatsky and [some] have begun new organizations based upon the individual revelation imparted." caps added.
> 
>   Below is a PARTIAL list of the claimants: 
> 
>   (1) In the 1890s, William Q. Judge said he was in contact with HPB's Master Morya as well as the deceased HPB. Judge claimed he precipitated letters from Master M. and gave out further esoteric teachings. 
> 
>   (2) Annie Besant and Charles Leadbeater affirmed that they were in direct communication with HPB's Masters and the deceased HPB. They gave out various Theosophical teachings in their voluminous writings.
> 
>   (3) Katherine Tingley, the occult successor of Judge, said she was in contact with HPB's Masters and claimed to have met on at least two occasions the Master Morya in his physical body.
> 
>   (4) G. de Purucker, Tingley's successor, testified that the Masters M. & K.H. came to visit him in 1929 at Theosophical Society headquarters, Point Loma, San Diego, California. Purucker claimed that he was allowed to give out deeper esoteric teachings than HPB, Judge or Tingley had given.
> 
>   (5) Alice Bailey said she was in contact with Masters K.H. and D.K and wrote more than 20 volumes of teachings said to be from D.K. She even gave out further installments of the Stanzas of Dzyan.
> 
>   (6) Mrs. Francia A. La Due (of the Temple of the People) gave out messages from the Masters, especially from Hilarion. She also published more Stanzas from the Book of Dzyan.
> 
>   (7) Guy Ballard (of the "I Am" Movement) claimed to be in communication with the Masters, especially St. Germain.
> 
>   (8) Helena Roerich (of the Agni Yoga Society) published some 13 volumes of communications supposedly from the Master Morya.
> 
>   (9) Mark Prophet and his wife Elizabeth Clare (of the Church Universal and Triumphant) claimed to be the emissaries of the Great White Brotherhood and have channeled thousands of messages from El Morya, Kut Humi, the Virgin Mary, Hercules, Chastity and a variety of other Masters and entities.
> 
>   (10) Earlyne Chaney of Astara believed she was in communication with Kut-Hi-Mi and Zoser and other Masters of the Great White Brotherhood. She has given out various so-called esoteric and occult teachings.
> 
>   (11) Nada-Yolanda of Mark-Age, Inc has channeled numerous messages from M., K.H., and others Masters associated with UFOs.
> 
>   (12) Max Heindel, Rudolf Steiner and Geoffrey Hodson have claimed clairvoyant powers and to be in contact with various Masters - Rosicrucian, Theosophical or otherwise.
> 
>   (13) Other supposed communications from HPB's Masters have come from Brother Philip in his book titled Secret of the Andes, from Cyril Scott in his series of books starting with The Initiate, and from David Anrias in his book Through the Eyes of the Masters.
> 
>   And the list goes on . . . . 
> 
>   So who do you believe? Which books by any of these individuals do you read?
> 
>   Where do you start? 
> 
>   Hundreds of books and articles have been written by all these above-named individuals.
> 
>   For more related information and a suggested course of study, see:
> 
>   http://blavatskyarchives.com/theosophicaltraditions.htm
> 
>   Daniel
>   http://hpb.cc
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>