Theos-Talk Archives (February 2009 Message tt00299)

MKR, 
I think it might just be that you must be a member in order to access his Forum posts. I didn't look into the Forum part there yet. Maybe Anand can enlighten us on the matter. I, in part posted his sites so maybe people can stop beating a dead horse in consideration of his observable effort it is most unlikely one can expect him to recant his existantial investment which is considerable. 
Regards, 
John 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "MKR" <mkr777@gmail.com> 
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 7:09:27 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Madame Blavatsky & Bishop Leadbeater 






They are all busy here. 
MKR 

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 8:16 PM, nhcareyta < nhcareyta@yahoo.com.au > wrote: 

> Dear John 
> 
> Thank you again. 
> 
> It seems strange that his group claims 1013 members and yet 
> there are virtually no posts? 
> 
> For that at least I take heart. 
> 
> Regards 
> Nigel 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>, 
> Augoeides-222@... wrote: 
> > 
> > Nigel, 
> > Here are the Theosophy and other part of Anands Homepages: 
> > 
> > Theosophy 
> > 
> > >>> http://www.anandgholap.net/ <<< 
> > 
> > Annie Besant Biography: 
> > 
> > >>> http://images.google.com/imgres? 
> imgurl= http://www.anandgholap.net/07.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.anandgho 
> lap.net/Autobiography- 
> AB.htm&h=412&w=597&sz=31&hl=en&start=18&usg=__dtPUlAFI7FusNdsfY5grZYYa 
> D-s=&tbnid=k3LoxjIbIGRoyM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3DAnand% 
> 2BGholap%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX<<< 
> > 
> > Regards, 
> > John 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "nhcareyta" <nhcareyta@...> 
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com> 
> > Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 5:26:30 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada 
> Pacific 
> > Subject: Theos-World Re: Madame Blavatsky & Bishop Leadbeater 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Dear John and Chuck 
> > 
> > John, thank you, this is a useful link to assist members here to 
> > ascertain Anand's religion and mindset. 
> > 
> > The religion of Christianity and its comparison with Theosophy 
> > is not so much the issue for me in this current discussion. 
> > Many Christian teachings concern the highest theosophical 
> > principles of selflessness, love, compassion, honesty, 
> > integrity, peace, harmony, patience, tolerance, understanding etc. 
> > 
> > What is of most concern to me in this instance is that Anand 
> > devalues and denigrates honourable people whilst promoting 
> > and being devoted to one who is proven to be otherwise. 
> > 
> > Were he an ordinary member of a local Theosophical branch, 
> > with little influence, the issue would probably not be worth 
> > pursuing. But as this is an international forum, with hundreds 
> > of genuine seekers after Truth, his diatribe requires challenge, 
> > even if only for the sake of simple truth. 
> > 
> > However, as you will probably be well aware, there are certain 
> > occult aspects to this matter that deserve consideration. 
> > 
> > "Enamouring" is something that is real and tangible. 
> > 
> > Both mundane and religious leaders can and do use techniques to 
> > enhance their charisma, so as to facilitate the manipulation and 
> > control of others. 
> > 
> > Occult teachers can do likewise, but often with enhanced effects. 
> > 
> > Interestingly perhaps, using a Theosophical example of this, 
> > in the Mahatma Letters to AP Sinnett, Mahatma M writes of 
> > one Suby (or Salig) Ram, "S. Ram is the chief medium and at same 
> > time the principal magnetic factor, who spreads his disease by 
> > infection Ãâ" unconsciously to himself; who innoculates with his 
> > vision all the other disciples." 
> > ML 31 Chr of George Linton and Virginia Hanson 
> > 
> > It may be that Bishop Leadbeater "unconsciously" 
> > innoculated or infected his devotees, but infect them with 
> > his writings and charisma of dishonesty he certainly did 
> > and still can do. 
> > 
> > I have experienced numerous incidents in an Adyar Theosophical 
> > Society branch where his devotees and others have blatantly and 
> > unashamedly lied about people and alleged events. 
> > And when these lies have been exposed in a committee hearing into 
> > the matters, the actions taken demonstrate clearly that they have 
> > been overlooked or considered unimportant. Such is the occult power 
> > of dishonesty that overshadows an otherwise honourable 
> organisation. 
> > 
> > From my perspective, many devotees of Bishop Leadbeater 
> > were at the time, and are still to this day, enamoured by this 
> > man and his writings, to the extent that they are willing to 
> > both accept the most extraordinary nonsense as "occult truth" 
> > and overlook the most outrageous and unconscionable behaviour. 
> > 
> > Regards 
> > Nigel 
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com> , 
> Augoeides-222@ wrote: 
> > > 
> > > Nigel, 
> > > Anand has two parts on his Home Pages, Theosophy and 
> Christianity, 
> > here is the Christianity part. It may let members bvecome aware of 
> > his prevarication viz Theosophy. 
> > > 
> > > >>> http://anandgholap.org/ <<< 
> > > 
> > > Regards, 
> > > John 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "nhcareyta" <nhcareyta@> 
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com> 
> > > Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 6:16:32 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada 
> > Pacific 
> > > Subject: Theos-World Re: Madame Blavatsky & Bishop Leadbeater 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Derar Anand and all 
> > > 
> > > Anand, you write to NigelH, "You gave some quotations from 
> > > Blavatsky and Mahatma Letters. I think Blavatsky's writing and 
> > > Pseudo-letters contain many mistakes and I don't believe in 
> > > some of the statements they made. I don't recommend 
> > > these writings." 
> > > 
> > > Anand, I ask you yet again, would you be so kind as to 
> > > provide evidence both of Madame Blavatsky's "many mistakes" 
> > > and the falsity of the "Pseudo-letters?" 
> > > 
> > > In the meantime, for the benefit of any newcomers to this forum 
> > > who may not have read your unsubstantiated and unanswered 
> > > accusations before, may I offer you and them some facts on 
> > > your guru, to whom you are so ardently devoted, and whom 
> > > you recommend to theosophical students, 
> > > Bishop CW Leadbeater 
> > > 
> > > Bishop Leadbeater clearly lied and was fraudulent in 
> > > numerous matters of determinable and demonstrable fact. 
> > > 
> > > He claimed to be representing Madame Blavatsky's version of 
> > > Theosophy. On most subjects he did not. 
> > > > http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/tontitlepage.pdf < 
> > > 
> > > He claimed to be in direct contact with Madame Blavatsky's 
> > > masters. 
> > > Given the utterly contradictory accounts of cosmogonies 
> > > and cosmologies, any reasonable assessment would 
> > > manifestly demonstrate that he was not. 
> > > > http://blavatskyarchives.com/ton1.pdf < 
> > > 
> > > Upon meeting with Dr Besant, a few years after he had joined 
> > > the Adyar Theosophical Society, he claimed to have been born in 
> > > the year of her birth, 1847. Clearly he was not. 
> > > According to numerous British records including birth 
> certificate, 
> > > Church records and even census forms filled out by himself, 
> > > he was born in 1854. He obviously lied to fabricate a putative 
> > > "occult" connection between himself and Dr Besant. 
> > > 
> > > Furthermore, he claimed to have seen the Mahatma M in 1851. 
> > > Demonstrably another consciously concocted lie or fraud, 
> > > this time to coincide with Madame Blavatsky's actual recorded 
> > > sighting. 
> > > 
> > > He claimed to have attended the prestigious British 
> > > universities of Oxford and Cambridge. He did not. 
> > > 
> > > He claimed his father was the senior executive of a British 
> > > rail company. 
> > > He was actually one of its bookkeepers. 
> > > 
> > > Psychically, he claimed to have seen a sophisticated civilisation 
> > > on Mars, complete with many specific details. Clearly he did not. 
> > > 
> > > In the "theosophical" church he helped found, with teachings and 
> > > mindset so utterly opposed to the masters he claimed contact 
> with, 
> > > he stated women were not fit to perform the sacraments due to 
> > > their inappropriate vehicles. 
> > > 
> > > In "Occult Chemistry" he claimed psychic vision of the inner 
> > > workings of the atomic world. 
> > > With the exception of one obscure scientist, his 
> > > pronouncements have little credibility and are 
> > > ridiculed as nonsense. 
> > > > 
> > 
> http://www.chem.yale.edu/~chem125/125/history99/8Occult/OccultAtoms.h 
> > > tml< 
> > > 
> > > He claimed psychic vision of the atom and drew its picture, 
> > > claiming it as his own. It was actually a copy of one imagined by 
> > > Babbit years earlier. Another fraud. 
> > > 
> > > In his book "Lives of Alcyone" he constantly changed his 
> > > putative "psychic" versions of peoples' past lives as they came 
> in 
> > > and out of his personal favour. 
> > > 
> > > He claimed in his writings to meet with the "Lord of the World." 
> > > A pathological liar and paedophile meeting with the "Supreme 
> > > Director" of this globe? Really? 
> > > 
> > > And the list goes on and on. Whether we term these indiscretions 
> > > as untruths, lies or fraud they are indisputable matters of fact, 
> > > which only the most ardent apologist would deny or avoid. 
> > > 
> > > Bishop Leadbeater has been proven far and beyond any 
> > > reasonable doubt to have lied to and manipulated and deceived 
> > > his followers on many occasions and in many ways. 
> > > 
> > > Moreover, the apologists' arguing that his self-confessed, 
> > > sexual activities with small boys was actually training them 
> > > in sex magic is sickening and perverted in itself. 
> > > One wonders whether these apologists and supporters are 
> > > themselves paedophiles, defending the indefensible. 
> > > Anand, are you? 
> > > 
> > > If the bad Bishop were practicing sex magic with these boys, a 
> > > heinous practice in itself with powerless young children, this 
> > > would/should have been performed in a ceremonial and 
> > > ritualistic environment, complete with prescribed formulae i.e. 
> > > words, chants, invocations/evocations, ceremonial objects etc 
> > > in a ceremony that would last for perhaps a few hours. 
> > > His self-confessed climbing naked into bed with a naked 
> > > young boy whilst "teaching" him masturbation hardly qualifies 
> > > as sex magic. 
> > > It was and is paedophilia, to anyone with any intelligence, 
> > > decency and integrity. 
> > > 
> > > Why anyone would want to trust and even defend anything 
> > > this man did and wrote is a matter of considerable incredulity, 
> > > until one understands the pernicious nature of the belief-based, 
> > > blind, devotional mindset. . 
> > > 
> > > Simply because he wrote in lyrical, "explanatory", romantic, 
> > > authoritarian tones does not validate his pronouncements, 
> > > unless of course our blind, devotional mindset clamours for 
> > > the simplicity, certainty and "security" of authority, and the 
> > > glamour of romance. 
> > > 
> > > He was simply a common liar and fraud, and some people 
> > > were and are entirely enamoured by him and his writings. 
> > > Enamoured and under a glamour, as was Dr Besant in allowing 
> > > him re-entry into the Society he so disgraced. 
> > > 
> > > And you Anand recommend him and his writings, and 
> > > condemn Madame Blavatsky and her teachers' as "Pseudo" or 
> > > fraudulent? 
> > > 
> > > Regards 
> > > Nigel 
> > > 
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com> , 
> "Anand" <AnandGholap@> wrote: 
> > > > 
> > > > Dear Nigel, 
> > > > We all believe. Do you not believe in what Blavatsky says? I 
> say 
> > > most 
> > > > of the members here believe in Theosophy because they have not 
> > > > experienced all the things which Blavatsky and other occultists 
> > have 
> > > > written. 
> > > > J. Krishnamurti's attacks on beliefs are incredibly wrong 
> because 
> > > > lives of all people are based on beliefs. When we start our 
> > > education 
> > > > in school, we study books and believe, for the time being at 
> > least, 
> > > > that what is written in books is correct. At that time we are 
> not 
> > > in a 
> > > > position to challenge the writing in books, due to lack of 
> enough 
> > > > knowledge. Even the students who take Master's degree in 
> > management 
> > > or 
> > > > engineering, or medical do not generally challenge what is 
> taught 
> > to 
> > > > them. They believe that what is taught to them in college and 
> > > through 
> > > > books is correct. Only some of a few students who do Ph.D. 
> later 
> > > take 
> > > > trouble to think whether what is taught is correct or not. 
> > > > In spiritual development also we believe in what Great Ones 
> have 
> > > > taught and start walking. If every child keeps on questioning 
> > > mother's 
> > > > wisdom, it will be impossible to raise children. 
> > > > So if a person is to follow J. Krishnamurti's philosophy of 
> > > > challenging every belief unless experienced, life will become 
> > > > impossible to live. Fortunately, most people don't bring into 
> > action 
> > > > what JK says. 
> > > > You gave some quotations from Blavatsky and Mahatma Letters. I 
> > think 
> > > > Blavatsky's writing and Pseudo-letters contain many mistakes 
> and 
> > I 
> > > > don't believe in some of the statements they made. I don't 
> > recommend 
> > > > these writings. 
> > > > Best 
> > > > Anand Gholap 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com> , 
> "nigel_healy" <nigelhealy@> 
> > > wrote: 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Dear Anand 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I have been reading your posts for some time now and it is 
> very 
> > > clear 
> > > > > that you have a 'belief mindset'. You do not recognise the 
> > > problem, 
> > > > > from a Theosophical perspective, with this mindset and are 
> > > constantly 
> > > > > on the defence. As a recovered catholic myself, I understand 
> > that 
> > > it 
> > > > > is very difficult (though not impossible) to let go of our 
> > beloved 
> > > > > belief systems. The Mahatma K.H. puts it that there is "..a 
> > > general 
> > > > > unwillingness to give up an established order of things for 
> new 
> > > modes 
> > > > > of life and thought.." (ML,1) 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Again the same Mahatma says; "The God of the Theologians is 
> > > simply an 
> > > > > imaginary power,...a power which has never yet manifested 
> > itself. 
> > > Our 
> > > > > chief aim is to deliver humanity of this nightmare, to teach 
> > man 
> > > > > virtue for its own sake, and to walk in life relying on 
> himself 
> > > > > instead of leaning on a theological crutch, that for 
> countless 
> > > ages 
> > > > > was the direct cause of nearly all human misery." (ML,10 3rd 
> > ed) 
> > > > > 
> > > > > In your post you speak of the "Lord Jesus" asking us to 
> believe 
> > > stuff! 
> > > > > I see serious problems with this considering this is a 
> > > Theosophical 
> > > > > forum and not a christian one! 
> > > > > 
> > > > > H.P.B., who founded the Theosophical Society and wrote the 
> > books 
> > > that 
> > > > > are the foundations of Theosophy (all later writings are 
> either 
> > > > > derived from these or have nothing to do with the original 
> > > writings) 
> > > > > made her views on the "Lord Jesus" quite clear; 
> > > > > 
> > > > > "For me Jesus Christ, i.e., the Man-God of the Christians, 
> > copied 
> > > from 
> > > > > the Avataras of every country, from Hindu Krishna as well as 
> > the 
> > > > > Egyptian Horus, was never a historical person. He is a 
> deified 
> > > > > personification of the glorified type of the great 
> Hierophants 
> > of 
> > > the 
> > > > > Temples, and his story, as told in the New Testament, is an 
> > > allegory, 
> > > > > assuredly containing profound esoteric truths, but still an 
> > > allegory." 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I have no problem with the religious mindset, being an Irish 
> > > > > Australian I find myself surrounded by it! 
> > > > > 
> > > > > But it just simply isn't THEOSOPHY. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > And this is a THEOSOPHICAL forum. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > My intention is not to knock another's freedom of thought, 
> but 
> > to 
> > > seek 
> > > > > the Truth. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Kind regards, 
> > > > > NigelH 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com> , 
> "Anand" <AnandGholap@> 
> > wrote: 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Dear Pedro, 
> > > > > > > Finally, I remembered what the late Ianthe H. Hoskins 
> told 
> > me 
> > > at 
> > > > Adyar 
> > > > > > > in 1994, during her last visit: "Belief is the tomb of 
> > Truth." 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Pedro 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Do you think that St. Paul was misleading people when he 
> > said " 
> > > the 
> > > > > > righteous will live by faith" ? Do you think that Lord 
> Jesus 
> > was 
> > > > > > misleading people when he asked people to believe as 
> written 
> > > > > > throughout the Gospels? Do you think that Indian spiritual 
> > > writings 
> > > > > > were misleading people when they demanded Shraddha (faith 
> or 
> > > belief)? 
> > > > > > Either scriptures were wrong or J. Krishnamurti was wrong. 
> > You 
> > > can not 
> > > > > > say both are right. This position is logically absurd. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Best 
> > > > > > Anand Gholap 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 
> > 
> 
> 
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]