Theos-Talk Archives (February 2009 Message tt00298)

Actually they are so enamored of my writing that they are left  speechless.
 
And you know I couldn't resist that one.
 
Chuck the Heretic
 
 
In a message dated 2/21/2009 9:09:45 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
mkr777@gmail.com writes:

 
 
 
They are all busy here.
MKR

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 8:16 PM,  nhcareyta <_nhcareyta@yahoo.nhcare_ 
(mailto:nhcareyta@yahoo.com.au) >  wrote:

> Dear John
>
> Thank you again.
>
>  It seems strange that his group claims 1013 members and yet
> there are  virtually no posts?
>
> For that at least I take  heart.
>
> Regards
> Nigel
>
> --- In _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com)   
<theos-talk%theos-talk%<WBthe>,
> Augoeides-222@ Augoeides-222
> >
> > Nigel,
> > Here are the Theosophy  and other part of Anands Homepages:
> >
> >  Theosophy
> >
> > >>>_http://www.anandghohttp://w_ (http://www.anandgholap.net/) <<<
>  >
> > Annie Besant Biography:
> >
> >  >>>_http://images.http://imaghttp://_ (http://images.google.com/imgres?) 
>  imgurl=_http://www.anandghohttp://www.htt&imgrefurl=imgrefurl=imgrefur_ 
(http://www.anandgholap.net/07.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.anandgho) 
>  lap.net/Autobiograp  
>  AB.htm&h=412&<WBR>&sz=sz&hl=en&<WBR>sta&<WBR>usg=__dtPUl<WBR>usg=__dtP
>  D-s=&tbnid=k3LoxjIbtbnid=k&tbnh=tb&tbnw=135&<WBR>prev=/im<WBR>prev=/i
>  2BGholap%26gbv%  2BGh  2BGho  <<<
>  >
> > Regards,
> > John
> >
> > -----  Original Message -----
> > From: "nhcareyta"  <nhcareyta@.nh>
> > To: _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com)   
<theos-talk%theos-talk%<WBthe>
> > Sent: Saturday,  February 21, 2009 5:26:30 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada
> Pacific
> >  Subject: Theos-World Re: Madame Blavatsky & Bishop Leadbeater
>  >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>  > Dear John and Chuck
> >
> > John, thank you, this is a  useful link to assist members here to
> > ascertain Anand's religion  and mindset.
> >
> > The religion of Christianity and its  comparison with Theosophy
> > is not so much the issue for me in this  current discussion.
> > Many Christian teachings concern the highest  theosophical
> > principles of selflessness, love, compassion,  honesty,
> > integrity, peace, harmony, patience, tolerance,  understanding etc.
> >
> > What is of most concern to me in  this instance is that Anand
> > devalues and denigrates honourable  people whilst promoting
> > and being devoted to one who is proven to  be otherwise.
> >
> > Were he an ordinary member of a local  Theosophical branch,
> > with little influence, the issue would  probably not be worth
> > pursuing. But as this is an international  forum, with hundreds
> > of genuine seekers after Truth, his diatribe  requires challenge,
> > even if only for the sake of simple  truth.
> >
> > However, as you will probably be well aware,  there are certain
> > occult aspects to this matter that deserve  consideration.
> >
> > "Enamouring" is something that is  real and tangible.
> >
> > Both mundane and religious  leaders can and do use techniques to
> > enhance their charisma, so  as to facilitate the manipulation and
> > control of others.
>  >
> > Occult teachers can do likewise, but often with enhanced  effects.
> >
> > Interestingly perhaps, using a Theosophical  example of this,
> > in the Mahatma Letters to AP Sinnett, Mahatma M  writes of
> > one Suby (or Salig) Ram, "S. Ram is the chief medium  and at same
> > time the principal magnetic factor, who spreads his  disease by
> > infection Ãâ" unconsciously to himself; who  innoculates with his
> > vision all the other disciples."
>  > ML 31 Chr of George Linton and Virginia Hanson
> >
> >  It may be that Bishop Leadbeater "unconsciously"
> > innoculated or  infected his devotees, but infect them with
> > his writings and  charisma of dishonesty he certainly did
> > and still can do.
>  >
> > I have experienced numerous incidents in an Adyar  Theosophical
> > Society branch where his devotees and others have  blatantly and
> > unashamedly lied about people and alleged  events.
> > And when these lies have been exposed in a committee  hearing into
> > the matters, the actions taken demonstrate clearly  that they have
> > been overlooked or considered unimportant. Such is  the occult power
> > of dishonesty that overshadows an otherwise  honourable
> organisation.
> >
> > From my  perspective, many devotees of Bishop Leadbeater
> > were at the time,  and are still to this day, enamoured by this
> > man and his  writings, to the extent that they are willing to
> > both accept the  most extraordinary nonsense as "occult truth"
> > and overlook the  most outrageous and unconscionable behaviour.
> >
> >  Regards
> > Nigel
> >
> > --- In _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com)   
<theos-talk%theos-talk%<WBthe> ,
> Augoeides-222@  wrote:
> > >
> > > Nigel,
> > > Anand has  two parts on his Home Pages, Theosophy and
> Christianity,
> >  here is the Christianity part. It may let members bvecome aware of
>  > his prevarication viz Theosophy.
> > >
> > >  >>> _http://anandgholap.http_ (http://anandgholap.org/)   <<<
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >  John
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original  Message -----
> > > From: "nhcareyta" <nhcareyta@>
>  > > To: _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com)   
<theos-talk%theos-talk%<WBthe>
> > > Sent:  Saturday, February 21, 2009 6:16:32 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada
> >  Pacific
> > > Subject: Theos-World Re: Madame Blavatsky &  Bishop Leadbeater
> > >
> > >
> >  >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  Derar Anand and all
> > >
> > > Anand, you write to  NigelH, "You gave some quotations from
> > > Blavatsky and Mahatma  Letters. I think Blavatsky's writing and
> > > Pseudo-letters  contain many mistakes and I don't believe in
> > > some of the  statements they made. I don't recommend
> > > these  writings."
> > >
> > > Anand, I ask you yet again,  would you be so kind as to
> > > provide evidence both of Madame  Blavatsky's "many mistakes"
> > > and the falsity of the  "Pseudo-letters? 
> > >
> > > In the meantime,  for the benefit of any newcomers to this forum
> > > who may not  have read your unsubstantiated and unanswered
> > > accusations  before, may I offer you and them some facts on
> > > your guru, to  whom you are so ardently devoted, and whom
> > > you recommend to  theosophical students,
> > > Bishop CW Leadbeater
> >  >
> > > Bishop Leadbeater clearly lied and was fraudulent  in
> > > numerous matters of determinable and demonstrable  fact.
> > >
> > > He claimed to be representing Madame  Blavatsky's version of
> > > Theosophy. On most subjects he did  not.
> > > > _http://www.blavatskhttp://wwwhttp://www.blavahttp_ 
(http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/tontitlepage.pdf)   <
> > >
> > > He claimed to be in direct contact  with Madame Blavatsky's
> > > masters.
> > > Given the  utterly contradictory accounts of cosmogonies
> > > and  cosmologies, any reasonable assessment would
> > > manifestly  demonstrate that he was not.
> > > > _http://blavatskyarchttp://blahttp://b_ 
(http://blavatskyarchives.com/ton1.pdf)   <
> > >
> > > Upon meeting with Dr Besant, a few  years after he had joined
> > > the Adyar Theosophical Society, he  claimed to have been born in
> > > the year of her birth, 1847.  Clearly he was not.
> > > According to numerous British records  including birth
> certificate,
> > > Church records and even  census forms filled out by himself,
> > > he was born in 1854. He  obviously lied to fabricate a putative
> > > "occult" connection  between himself and Dr Besant.
> > >
> > >  Furthermore, he claimed to have seen the Mahatma M in 1851.
> > >  Demonstrably another consciously concocted lie or fraud,
> > >  this time to coincide with Madame Blavatsky's actual recorded
> >  > sighting.
> > >
> > > He claimed to have attended  the prestigious British
> > > universities of Oxford and  Cambridge. He did not.
> > >
> > > He claimed his  father was the senior executive of a British
> > > rail  company.
> > > He was actually one of its bookkeepers.
>  > >
> > > Psychically, he claimed to have seen a  sophisticated civilisation
> > > on Mars, complete with many  specific details. Clearly he did not.
> > >
> > > In  the "theosophical" church he helped found, with teachings and
> >  > mindset so utterly opposed to the masters he claimed contact
>  with,
> > > he stated women were not fit to perform the sacraments  due to
> > > their inappropriate vehicles.
> >  >
> > > In "Occult Chemistry" he claimed psychic vision of the  inner
> > > workings of the atomic world.
> > > With  the exception of one obscure scientist, his
> > > pronouncements  have little credibility and are
> > > ridiculed as  nonsense.
> > > >
> >
> _http://www.chem.http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.chehttp://www.chem.http:_ 
(http://www.chem.yale.edu/~chem125/125/history99/8Occult/OccultAtoms.h) 
>  > > tml<
> > >
> > > He claimed psychic  vision of the atom and drew its picture,
> > > claiming it as his  own. It was actually a copy of one imagined by
> > > Babbit years  earlier. Another fraud.
> > >
> > > In his book "Lives  of Alcyone" he constantly changed his
> > > putative "psychic"  versions of peoples' past lives as they came
> in
> > > and  out of his personal favour.
> > >
> > > He claimed in  his writings to meet with the "Lord of the World."
> > > A  pathological liar and paedophile meeting with the "Supreme
> > >  Director" of this globe? Really?
> > >
> > > And the  list goes on and on. Whether we term these indiscretions
> > > as  untruths, lies or fraud they are indisputable matters of fact,
> >  > which only the most ardent apologist would deny or avoid.
> >  >
> > > Bishop Leadbeater has been proven far and beyond  any
> > > reasonable doubt to have lied to and manipulated and  deceived
> > > his followers on many occasions and in many  ways.
> > >
> > > Moreover, the apologists' arguing  that his self-confessed,
> > > sexual activities with small boys  was actually training them
> > > in sex magic is sickening and  perverted in itself.
> > > One wonders whether these apologists  and supporters are
> > > themselves paedophiles, defending the  indefensible.
> > > Anand, are you?
> > >
> >  > If the bad Bishop were practicing sex magic with these boys, a
>  > > heinous practice in itself with powerless young children,  this
> > > would/should have been performed in a ceremonial  and
> > > ritualistic environment, complete with prescribed  formulae i.e.
> > > words, chants, invocations/ words, chants, invocations/<WBR>evoca
> > > in a ceremony that would last for  perhaps a few hours.
> > > His self-confessed climbing naked into  bed with a naked
> > > young boy whilst "teaching" him  masturbation hardly qualifies
> > > as sex magic.
> >  > It was and is paedophilia, to anyone with any intelligence,
> >  > decency and integrity.
> > >
> > > Why anyone  would want to trust and even defend anything
> > > this man did  and wrote is a matter of considerable incredulity,
> > > until one  understands the pernicious nature of the belief-based,
> > >  blind, devotional mindset. .
> > >
> > > Simply  because he wrote in lyrical, "explanatory" Simply ic,
> > >  authoritarian tones does not validate his pronouncements,
> > >  unless of course our blind, devotional mindset clamours for
> > >  the simplicity, certainty and "security" of authority, and the
> >  > glamour of romance.
> > >
> > > He was simply a  common liar and fraud, and some people
> > > were and are entirely  enamoured by him and his writings.
> > > Enamoured and under a  glamour, as was Dr Besant in allowing
> > > him re-entry into the  Society he so disgraced.
> > >
> > > And you Anand  recommend him and his writings, and
> > > condemn Madame Blavatsky  and her teachers' as "Pseudo" or
> > > fraudulent?
> >  >
> > > Regards
> > > Nigel
> >  >
> > > --- In _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) 
  <theos-talk%theos-talk%<WBthe> ,
> "Anand"  <AnandGholap@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >  Dear Nigel,
> > > > We all believe. Do you not believe in what  Blavatsky says? I
> say
> > > most
> > > > of  the members here believe in Theosophy because they have not
> > >  > experienced all the things which Blavatsky and other occultists
>  > have
> > > > written.
> > > > J.  Krishnamurti' J.  Krishnamurti'<WBR>s attacks on be
>  because
> > > > lives of all people are based on beliefs. When  we start our
> > > education
> > > > in school, we  study books and believe, for the time being at
> > least,
>  > > > that what is written in books is correct. At that time we  are
> not
> > > in a
> > > > position to  challenge the writing in books, due to lack of
> enough
> >  > > knowledge. Even the students who take Master's degree in
>  > management
> > > or
> > > > engineering, or  medical do not generally challenge what is
> taught
> >  to
> > > > them. They believe that what is taught to them in  college and
> > > through
> > > > books is correct.  Only some of a few students who do Ph.D.
> later
> > >  take
> > > > trouble to think whether what is taught is correct  or not.
> > > > In spiritual development also we believe in  what Great Ones
> have
> > > > taught and start walking.  If every child keeps on questioning
> > > mother's
> >  > > wisdom, it will be impossible to raise children.
> > >  > So if a person is to follow J. Krishnamurti' So if a person
>  > > > challenging every belief unless experienced, life will  become
> > > > impossible to live. Fortunately, most people  don't bring into
> > action
> > > > what JK  says.
> > > > You gave some quotations from Blavatsky and  Mahatma Letters. I
> > think
> > > > Blavatsky's  writing and Pseudo-letters contain many mistakes
> and
> >  I
> > > > don't believe in some of the statements they made. I  don't
> > recommend
> > > > these writings.
>  > > > Best
> > > > Anand Gholap
> > >  >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >  >
> > > > --- In _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ 
(mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com)   <theos-talk%theos-talk%<WBthe> ,
> "nigel_healy"  <nigelhealy@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >  >
> > > > > Dear Anand
> > > >  >
> > > > > I have been reading your posts for some time  now and it is
> very
> > > clear
> > > > >  that you have a 'belief mindset'. You do not recognise the
> > >  problem,
> > > > > from a Theosophical perspective, with  this mindset and are
> > > constantly
> > > > >  on the defence. As a recovered catholic myself, I understand
> >  that
> > > it
> > > > > is very difficult  (though not impossible) to let go of our
> > beloved
> >  > > > belief systems. The Mahatma K.H. puts it that there is  "..a
> > > general
> > > > > unwillingness to  give up an established order of things for
> new
> > >  modes
> > > > > of life and thought.." (ML,1)
> >  > > >
> > > > > Again the same Mahatma says; "The  God of the Theologians is
> > > simply an
> > > >  > imaginary power,...a power which has never yet manifested
> >  itself.
> > > Our
> > > > > chief aim is to  deliver humanity of this nightmare, to teach
> > man
> >  > > > virtue for its own sake, and to walk in life relying on
>  himself
> > > > > instead of leaning on a theological  crutch, that for
> countless
> > > ages
> > >  > > was the direct cause of nearly all human misery." (ML,10 3rd
>  > ed)
> > > > >
> > > > > In your post  you speak of the "Lord Jesus" asking us to
> believe
> > >  stuff!
> > > > > I see serious problems with this  considering this is a
> > > Theosophical
> > > >  > forum and not a christian one!
> > > > >
> >  > > > H.P.B., who founded the Theosophical Society and wrote  the
> > books
> > > that
> > > > > are  the foundations of Theosophy (all later writings are
> either
>  > > > > derived from these or have nothing to do with the  original
> > > writings)
> > > > > made her  views on the "Lord Jesus" quite clear;
> > > > >
>  > > > > "For me Jesus Christ, i.e., the Man-God of the  Christians,
> > copied
> > > from
> > > >  > the Avataras of every country, from Hindu Krishna as well as
> >  the
> > > > > Egyptian Horus, was never a historical person.  He is a
> deified
> > > > > personification of the  glorified type of the great
> Hierophants
> > of
> >  > the
> > > > > Temples, and his story, as told in the  New Testament, is an
> > > allegory,
> > > > >  assuredly containing profound esoteric truths, but still an
> > >  allegory."
> > > > >
> > > > > I have no  problem with the religious mindset, being an Irish
> > > > >  Australian I find myself surrounded by it!
> > > > >
>  > > > > But it just simply isn't THEOSOPHY.
> > > >  >
> > > > > And this is a THEOSOPHICAL forum.
>  > > > >
> > > > > My intention is not to knock  another's freedom of thought,
> but
> > to
> > >  seek
> > > > > the Truth.
> > > >  >
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > >  NigelH
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >  > > > --- In _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ 
(mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com)   <theos-talk%theos-talk%<WBthe> ,
> "Anand"  <AnandGholap@>
> > wrote:
> > > > >  >
> > > > > > Dear Pedro,
> > > > >  > > Finally, I remembered what the late Ianthe H. Hoskins
>  told
> > me
> > > at
> > > > Adyar
>  > > > > > > in 1994, during her last visit: "Belief is the  tomb of
> > Truth."
> > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > Pedro
> > > > > >  >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do you  think that St. Paul was misleading people when he
> > said "
>  > > the
> > > > > > righteous will live by faith" ?  Do you think that Lord
> Jesus
> > was
> > > >  > > misleading people when he asked people to believe as
>  written
> > > > > > throughout the Gospels? Do you think  that Indian spiritual
> > > writings
> > > > >  > were misleading people when they demanded Shraddha (faith
>  or
> > > belief)?
> > > > > > Either  scriptures were wrong or J. Krishnamurti was wrong.
> > You
>  > > can not
> > > > > > say both are right. This  position is logically absurd.
> > > > > >
> >  > > > > Best
> > > > > > Anand Gholap
>  > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >  >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >  >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>  >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]
> >
>
> 
>

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