Theos-Talk Archives (February 2009 Message tt00300)

John: You may be right about the membership. I just made a general comment
and I think we have enough traffic here to keep us all busy.

mkr

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 11:46 PM, <Augoeides-222@comcast.net> wrote:

>   MKR,
> I think it might just be that you must be a member in order to access his
> Forum posts. I didn't look into the Forum part there yet. Maybe Anand can
> enlighten us on the matter. I, in part posted his sites so maybe people can
> stop beating a dead horse in consideration of his observable effort it is
> most unlikely one can expect him to recant his existantial investment which
> is considerable.
> Regards,
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "MKR" <mkr777@gmail.com <mkr777%40gmail.com>>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 7:09:27 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Madame Blavatsky & Bishop Leadbeater
>
> They are all busy here.
> MKR
>
> On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 8:16 PM, nhcareyta < nhcareyta@yahoo.com.au<nhcareyta%40yahoo.com.au>> wrote:
>
> > Dear John
> >
> > Thank you again.
> >
> > It seems strange that his group claims 1013 members and yet
> > there are virtually no posts?
> >
> > For that at least I take heart.
> >
> > Regards
> > Nigel
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Augoeides-222@... wrote:
> > >
> > > Nigel,
> > > Here are the Theosophy and other part of Anands Homepages:
> > >
> > > Theosophy
> > >
> > > >>> http://www.anandgholap.net/ <<<
> > >
> > > Annie Besant Biography:
> > >
> > > >>> http://images.google.com/imgres?
> > imgurl= http://www.anandgholap.net/07.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.anandgho
> > lap.net/Autobiography-
> > AB.htm&h=412&w=597&sz=31&hl=en&start=18&usg=__dtPUlAFI7FusNdsfY5grZYYa
> > D-s=&tbnid=k3LoxjIbIGRoyM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3DAnand%
> > 2BGholap%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX<<<
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > John
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "nhcareyta" <nhcareyta@...>
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 5:26:30 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada
> > Pacific
> > > Subject: Theos-World Re: Madame Blavatsky & Bishop Leadbeater
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear John and Chuck
> > >
> > > John, thank you, this is a useful link to assist members here to
> > > ascertain Anand's religion and mindset.
> > >
> > > The religion of Christianity and its comparison with Theosophy
> > > is not so much the issue for me in this current discussion.
> > > Many Christian teachings concern the highest theosophical
> > > principles of selflessness, love, compassion, honesty,
> > > integrity, peace, harmony, patience, tolerance, understanding etc.
> > >
> > > What is of most concern to me in this instance is that Anand
> > > devalues and denigrates honourable people whilst promoting
> > > and being devoted to one who is proven to be otherwise.
> > >
> > > Were he an ordinary member of a local Theosophical branch,
> > > with little influence, the issue would probably not be worth
> > > pursuing. But as this is an international forum, with hundreds
> > > of genuine seekers after Truth, his diatribe requires challenge,
> > > even if only for the sake of simple truth.
> > >
> > > However, as you will probably be well aware, there are certain
> > > occult aspects to this matter that deserve consideration.
> > >
> > > "Enamouring" is something that is real and tangible.
> > >
> > > Both mundane and religious leaders can and do use techniques to
> > > enhance their charisma, so as to facilitate the manipulation and
> > > control of others.
> > >
> > > Occult teachers can do likewise, but often with enhanced effects.
> > >
> > > Interestingly perhaps, using a Theosophical example of this,
> > > in the Mahatma Letters to AP Sinnett, Mahatma M writes of
> > > one Suby (or Salig) Ram, "S. Ram is the chief medium and at same
> > > time the principal magnetic factor, who spreads his disease by
> > > infection Ãâ" unconsciously to himself; who innoculates with his
> > > vision all the other disciples."
> > > ML 31 Chr of George Linton and Virginia Hanson
> > >
> > > It may be that Bishop Leadbeater "unconsciously"
> > > innoculated or infected his devotees, but infect them with
> > > his writings and charisma of dishonesty he certainly did
> > > and still can do.
> > >
> > > I have experienced numerous incidents in an Adyar Theosophical
> > > Society branch where his devotees and others have blatantly and
> > > unashamedly lied about people and alleged events.
> > > And when these lies have been exposed in a committee hearing into
> > > the matters, the actions taken demonstrate clearly that they have
> > > been overlooked or considered unimportant. Such is the occult power
> > > of dishonesty that overshadows an otherwise honourable
> > organisation.
> > >
> > > From my perspective, many devotees of Bishop Leadbeater
> > > were at the time, and are still to this day, enamoured by this
> > > man and his writings, to the extent that they are willing to
> > > both accept the most extraordinary nonsense as "occult truth"
> > > and overlook the most outrageous and unconscionable behaviour.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Nigel
> > >
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> 40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > Augoeides-222@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Nigel,
> > > > Anand has two parts on his Home Pages, Theosophy and
> > Christianity,
> > > here is the Christianity part. It may let members bvecome aware of
> > > his prevarication viz Theosophy.
> > > >
> > > > >>> http://anandgholap.org/ <<<
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "nhcareyta" <nhcareyta@>
> > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 6:16:32 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada
> > > Pacific
> > > > Subject: Theos-World Re: Madame Blavatsky & Bishop Leadbeater
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Derar Anand and all
> > > >
> > > > Anand, you write to NigelH, "You gave some quotations from
> > > > Blavatsky and Mahatma Letters. I think Blavatsky's writing and
> > > > Pseudo-letters contain many mistakes and I don't believe in
> > > > some of the statements they made. I don't recommend
> > > > these writings."
> > > >
> > > > Anand, I ask you yet again, would you be so kind as to
> > > > provide evidence both of Madame Blavatsky's "many mistakes"
> > > > and the falsity of the "Pseudo-letters?"
> > > >
> > > > In the meantime, for the benefit of any newcomers to this forum
> > > > who may not have read your unsubstantiated and unanswered
> > > > accusations before, may I offer you and them some facts on
> > > > your guru, to whom you are so ardently devoted, and whom
> > > > you recommend to theosophical students,
> > > > Bishop CW Leadbeater
> > > >
> > > > Bishop Leadbeater clearly lied and was fraudulent in
> > > > numerous matters of determinable and demonstrable fact.
> > > >
> > > > He claimed to be representing Madame Blavatsky's version of
> > > > Theosophy. On most subjects he did not.
> > > > > http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/tontitlepage.pdf <
> > > >
> > > > He claimed to be in direct contact with Madame Blavatsky's
> > > > masters.
> > > > Given the utterly contradictory accounts of cosmogonies
> > > > and cosmologies, any reasonable assessment would
> > > > manifestly demonstrate that he was not.
> > > > > http://blavatskyarchives.com/ton1.pdf <
> > > >
> > > > Upon meeting with Dr Besant, a few years after he had joined
> > > > the Adyar Theosophical Society, he claimed to have been born in
> > > > the year of her birth, 1847. Clearly he was not.
> > > > According to numerous British records including birth
> > certificate,
> > > > Church records and even census forms filled out by himself,
> > > > he was born in 1854. He obviously lied to fabricate a putative
> > > > "occult" connection between himself and Dr Besant.
> > > >
> > > > Furthermore, he claimed to have seen the Mahatma M in 1851.
> > > > Demonstrably another consciously concocted lie or fraud,
> > > > this time to coincide with Madame Blavatsky's actual recorded
> > > > sighting.
> > > >
> > > > He claimed to have attended the prestigious British
> > > > universities of Oxford and Cambridge. He did not.
> > > >
> > > > He claimed his father was the senior executive of a British
> > > > rail company.
> > > > He was actually one of its bookkeepers.
> > > >
> > > > Psychically, he claimed to have seen a sophisticated civilisation
> > > > on Mars, complete with many specific details. Clearly he did not.
> > > >
> > > > In the "theosophical" church he helped found, with teachings and
> > > > mindset so utterly opposed to the masters he claimed contact
> > with,
> > > > he stated women were not fit to perform the sacraments due to
> > > > their inappropriate vehicles.
> > > >
> > > > In "Occult Chemistry" he claimed psychic vision of the inner
> > > > workings of the atomic world.
> > > > With the exception of one obscure scientist, his
> > > > pronouncements have little credibility and are
> > > > ridiculed as nonsense.
> > > > >
> > >
> > http://www.chem.yale.edu/~chem125/125/history99/8Occult/OccultAtoms.h
> > > > tml<
> > > >
> > > > He claimed psychic vision of the atom and drew its picture,
> > > > claiming it as his own. It was actually a copy of one imagined by
> > > > Babbit years earlier. Another fraud.
> > > >
> > > > In his book "Lives of Alcyone" he constantly changed his
> > > > putative "psychic" versions of peoples' past lives as they came
> > in
> > > > and out of his personal favour.
> > > >
> > > > He claimed in his writings to meet with the "Lord of the World."
> > > > A pathological liar and paedophile meeting with the "Supreme
> > > > Director" of this globe? Really?
> > > >
> > > > And the list goes on and on. Whether we term these indiscretions
> > > > as untruths, lies or fraud they are indisputable matters of fact,
> > > > which only the most ardent apologist would deny or avoid.
> > > >
> > > > Bishop Leadbeater has been proven far and beyond any
> > > > reasonable doubt to have lied to and manipulated and deceived
> > > > his followers on many occasions and in many ways.
> > > >
> > > > Moreover, the apologists' arguing that his self-confessed,
> > > > sexual activities with small boys was actually training them
> > > > in sex magic is sickening and perverted in itself.
> > > > One wonders whether these apologists and supporters are
> > > > themselves paedophiles, defending the indefensible.
> > > > Anand, are you?
> > > >
> > > > If the bad Bishop were practicing sex magic with these boys, a
> > > > heinous practice in itself with powerless young children, this
> > > > would/should have been performed in a ceremonial and
> > > > ritualistic environment, complete with prescribed formulae i.e.
> > > > words, chants, invocations/evocations, ceremonial objects etc
> > > > in a ceremony that would last for perhaps a few hours.
> > > > His self-confessed climbing naked into bed with a naked
> > > > young boy whilst "teaching" him masturbation hardly qualifies
> > > > as sex magic.
> > > > It was and is paedophilia, to anyone with any intelligence,
> > > > decency and integrity.
> > > >
> > > > Why anyone would want to trust and even defend anything
> > > > this man did and wrote is a matter of considerable incredulity,
> > > > until one understands the pernicious nature of the belief-based,
> > > > blind, devotional mindset. .
> > > >
> > > > Simply because he wrote in lyrical, "explanatory", romantic,
> > > > authoritarian tones does not validate his pronouncements,
> > > > unless of course our blind, devotional mindset clamours for
> > > > the simplicity, certainty and "security" of authority, and the
> > > > glamour of romance.
> > > >
> > > > He was simply a common liar and fraud, and some people
> > > > were and are entirely enamoured by him and his writings.
> > > > Enamoured and under a glamour, as was Dr Besant in allowing
> > > > him re-entry into the Society he so disgraced.
> > > >
> > > > And you Anand recommend him and his writings, and
> > > > condemn Madame Blavatsky and her teachers' as "Pseudo" or
> > > > fraudulent?
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Nigel
> > > >
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> 40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > "Anand" <AnandGholap@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear Nigel,
> > > > > We all believe. Do you not believe in what Blavatsky says? I
> > say
> > > > most
> > > > > of the members here believe in Theosophy because they have not
> > > > > experienced all the things which Blavatsky and other occultists
> > > have
> > > > > written.
> > > > > J. Krishnamurti's attacks on beliefs are incredibly wrong
> > because
> > > > > lives of all people are based on beliefs. When we start our
> > > > education
> > > > > in school, we study books and believe, for the time being at
> > > least,
> > > > > that what is written in books is correct. At that time we are
> > not
> > > > in a
> > > > > position to challenge the writing in books, due to lack of
> > enough
> > > > > knowledge. Even the students who take Master's degree in
> > > management
> > > > or
> > > > > engineering, or medical do not generally challenge what is
> > taught
> > > to
> > > > > them. They believe that what is taught to them in college and
> > > > through
> > > > > books is correct. Only some of a few students who do Ph.D.
> > later
> > > > take
> > > > > trouble to think whether what is taught is correct or not.
> > > > > In spiritual development also we believe in what Great Ones
> > have
> > > > > taught and start walking. If every child keeps on questioning
> > > > mother's
> > > > > wisdom, it will be impossible to raise children.
> > > > > So if a person is to follow J. Krishnamurti's philosophy of
> > > > > challenging every belief unless experienced, life will become
> > > > > impossible to live. Fortunately, most people don't bring into
> > > action
> > > > > what JK says.
> > > > > You gave some quotations from Blavatsky and Mahatma Letters. I
> > > think
> > > > > Blavatsky's writing and Pseudo-letters contain many mistakes
> > and
> > > I
> > > > > don't believe in some of the statements they made. I don't
> > > recommend
> > > > > these writings.
> > > > > Best
> > > > > Anand Gholap
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> 40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > "nigel_healy" <nigelhealy@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dear Anand
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have been reading your posts for some time now and it is
> > very
> > > > clear
> > > > > > that you have a 'belief mindset'. You do not recognise the
> > > > problem,
> > > > > > from a Theosophical perspective, with this mindset and are
> > > > constantly
> > > > > > on the defence. As a recovered catholic myself, I understand
> > > that
> > > > it
> > > > > > is very difficult (though not impossible) to let go of our
> > > beloved
> > > > > > belief systems. The Mahatma K.H. puts it that there is "..a
> > > > general
> > > > > > unwillingness to give up an established order of things for
> > new
> > > > modes
> > > > > > of life and thought.." (ML,1)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Again the same Mahatma says; "The God of the Theologians is
> > > > simply an
> > > > > > imaginary power,...a power which has never yet manifested
> > > itself.
> > > > Our
> > > > > > chief aim is to deliver humanity of this nightmare, to teach
> > > man
> > > > > > virtue for its own sake, and to walk in life relying on
> > himself
> > > > > > instead of leaning on a theological crutch, that for
> > countless
> > > > ages
> > > > > > was the direct cause of nearly all human misery." (ML,10 3rd
> > > ed)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In your post you speak of the "Lord Jesus" asking us to
> > believe
> > > > stuff!
> > > > > > I see serious problems with this considering this is a
> > > > Theosophical
> > > > > > forum and not a christian one!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > H.P.B., who founded the Theosophical Society and wrote the
> > > books
> > > > that
> > > > > > are the foundations of Theosophy (all later writings are
> > either
> > > > > > derived from these or have nothing to do with the original
> > > > writings)
> > > > > > made her views on the "Lord Jesus" quite clear;
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "For me Jesus Christ, i.e., the Man-God of the Christians,
> > > copied
> > > > from
> > > > > > the Avataras of every country, from Hindu Krishna as well as
> > > the
> > > > > > Egyptian Horus, was never a historical person. He is a
> > deified
> > > > > > personification of the glorified type of the great
> > Hierophants
> > > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > Temples, and his story, as told in the New Testament, is an
> > > > allegory,
> > > > > > assuredly containing profound esoteric truths, but still an
> > > > allegory."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have no problem with the religious mindset, being an Irish
> > > > > > Australian I find myself surrounded by it!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But it just simply isn't THEOSOPHY.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And this is a THEOSOPHICAL forum.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My intention is not to knock another's freedom of thought,
> > but
> > > to
> > > > seek
> > > > > > the Truth.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > NigelH
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> 40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > "Anand" <AnandGholap@>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dear Pedro,
> > > > > > > > Finally, I remembered what the late Ianthe H. Hoskins
> > told
> > > me
> > > > at
> > > > > Adyar
> > > > > > > > in 1994, during her last visit: "Belief is the tomb of
> > > Truth."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Pedro
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Do you think that St. Paul was misleading people when he
> > > said "
> > > > the
> > > > > > > righteous will live by faith" ? Do you think that Lord
> > Jesus
> > > was
> > > > > > > misleading people when he asked people to believe as
> > written
> > > > > > > throughout the Gospels? Do you think that Indian spiritual
> > > > writings
> > > > > > > were misleading people when they demanded Shraddha (faith
> > or
> > > > belief)?
> > > > > > > Either scriptures were wrong or J. Krishnamurti was wrong.
> > > You
> > > > can not
> > > > > > > say both are right. This position is logically absurd.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best
> > > > > > > Anand Gholap
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]