Theos-World Re: 4th sub-race
Feb 04, 2009 01:36 PM
by Govert Schuller
Sorry. Message below should have been addressed to Morten, not Frank.
Discussion in this group goes swift. Hard to keep a grip on it. Govert
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Govert Schuller" <schuller@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Frank,
>
> 1) I suppose the leaflet is an image. I do not have it.
>
> 2) Yes, you're right: K.H. seems to concur with Hume
>
> 3) The quote you gave might help to make things easier to formulate
> the issue with letters and numbers:
>
> > a.. I, II, III, IV, etc., are the seven major or root-races.
> > b.. 1, 2, 3, etc., are the minor races.
> > c.. a, a, a, are the subordinate or offshoot races.
>
> I proceed with the understanding that we all agree that we're in the
> 4th Round and that the issue of 'offshoot races' is not on the table,
> though it seems to come into play with Frank's take on the Hume/K.H.
> position.
>
> Please correct me if wrong, but the different views about where the
> bulk of humanity is to be classified seem to be as follows:
>
> HPB's interpretation: V-5
>
> Chaterji & Halloway: V-5 (thanks Konstantin)
>
> The Adyar interpretation: V-5
>
> The Pasadena interpretation: V-4
>
> Humes' interpretation: IV-7
>
> K.H.: IV-7
>
> My interpretation of Frank's interpretation of the Hume/K.H. position:
> V-4-g (where root-race IV is seen as sub-race 4, and sub-race 7 as
> offshoot g. This is of course debatable, but maybe the only way to
> press the Hume/KH position into the Pasadena position)
>
> Makes sense?
>
> Govert
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
> <global-theosophy@> wrote:
> >
> > Yes.
> > And I understand that KH is not against Humes view?
> > But, can we have the fascimile version, which are showing the
> flyleaves mentioned by KH?
> >
> >
> > "Please examine carefully the few additional things I give you on
> the fly-leaves. Damodar has received orders to send you No. 3 of
> Terry's letters -- a good material for pamphlet No. 3 of Fragments of
> Occult Truth.
> > This figure roughly represents the development of humanity on a
> planet -- say our earth. Man evolves in seven major or root-races; 49
> minor races; and the subordinate races or offshoots, the branchlet
> races coming from the latter are not shown.
> >
> > The arrow indicates the direction taken by the evolutionary impulse.
> >
> > a.. I, II, III, IV, etc., are the seven major or root-races.
> > b.. 1, 2, 3, etc., are the minor races.
> > c.. a, a, a, are the subordinate or offshoot races.
> > d.. N, the initial and terminal point of evolution on the planet.
> > e.. S, the axial point where the development equilibrates or
> adjusts itself in each race evolution.
> > f.. E, the equatorial points where in the descending arc intellect
> overcomes spirituality and in the ascending arc spirituality outstrips
> intellect.
> > (N.B. -- The above in D.K.'s hand -- the rest in K.H.'s. -- A.P.S.)
> >
> > P.S. -- In his hurry D.J.K. has made his figure incline somewhat out
> of the perpendicular but it will serve as a rough memorandum. He drew
> it to represent development on a single planet; but I have added a
> word or two to make it apply as well (which it does) to a whole
> manwantaric chain of worlds.
> >
> > K.H. "
> >
> > http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-14.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Govert Schuller
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 12:11 AM
> > Subject: Theos-World Re: 4th sub-race
> >
> >
> > Dear Morton,
> >
> > I'm sorry to point out that the first quote you gave was O.A. Hume's
> > uncorrected understanding of the issue, not K.H. explanation to
> Sinnett.
> >
> > It's from ML: 14, being "Letter from K.H. Answering Queries.
Received
> > by A.O.H., July 9th, 1882."
> >
> > The second quote is from the same letter and is by K.H., but
does not
> > clarify the issue.
> >
> > Govert
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
> > <global-theosophy@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Maybe this could help?
> > >
> > >
> > > Master KH's letter to AP Sinnett, juli 1882:
> > > "That the highest people now on earth belong to the first sub-race
> > of the fifth race, the majority to the seventh sub-race of the
fourth
> > race but with remnants of the other sub-races of the fourth race and
> > the seventh sub-race of the third race. Pray set us quite right on
> > this. "...etc. etc.
> > >
> > > ---
> > > "4th round. -- Intellect has an enormous development in this
round.
> > The dumb races will acquire our human speech, on our globe, on which
> > from the 4th race language is perfected and knowledge in physical
> > things increases. At this half-way point of the fourth round,
Humanity
> > passes the axial point of the minor manwantaric circle.
(Moreover, at
> > the middle point of every major or root race evolution of each
round,
> > man passes the equator of his course on that planet, the same rule
> > applying to the whole evolution or the seven rounds of the minor
> > Manwantara -- 7 rounds divided by 2 = 3 1/2 rounds). At this point
> > then the world teems with the results of intellectual activity and
> > spiritual decrease. In the first half of the fourth race, sciences,
> > arts, literature and philosophy were born, eclipsed in one nation,
> > reborn in another. Civilization and intellectual development
whirling
> > in septenary cycles as the rest; while it is but in the latter half
> > that the spiritual Ego will begin its real struggle with body
and mind
> > to manifest its transcendental powers. Who will help in the
> > forthcoming gigantic struggle? Who? Happy the man who helps a
helping
> > hand.
> > >
> > > 5th Round. -- The same relative development, and the same struggle
> > continues. "
> > >
> > > http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-14.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > Is there a fascimile somewhere?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > M. Sufilight
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Frank Reitemeyer
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 4:48 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: 4th sub-race
> > >
> > >
> > > Govert wrote:
> > >
> > > From the quotes below (the 'dead letter' interpretation) it
> looks like
> > > we are in Root-race 5 (Aryan), Sub-race 5 (Teutonic). Two quotes
> from
> > > HPB and one by 'Alpha' reflecting the understanding of a member.
> This
> > > understanding is also reflected in a little graph by Jinarajadasa,
> > > which some might call the Besant-Leadbeater interpretation, but
> might
> > > very well be in accordance with HPB. See:
> > > http://users.ez2.net/nick29/theosophy/lessons15.htm
> > > -------------------
> > >
> > > Frank answers:
> > > Thank you, Govert, for the link to the graph of the
> Besant-Leadbeater
> > > interpretation of the doctrine of the races.
> > > From where to they have the names of the races? From HPB?
> > > From their "Maha-Chohan"? Or from the Logos?
> > >
> > > -------------------
> > >
> > > Govert wrote:
> > >
> > > If HPB contradicted herself, and if to save her from the charge of
> > > inconsistency by saying that some of her statements were
blinds, in
> > > what way are we to reconcile these contradictions? How do we know
> > > what's a blind and what not? And if a contradiction is found
and one
> > > of the statements therefore allegedly a blind, does that make the
> > > subject more important?
> > >
> > > -------------------
> > >
> > > Frank answers:
> > >
> > > I hope, that HPB contradicted herself, as Europeans still
greatest
> > > metaphysicial - if not theosophist - Hegel says, that a
> > contradiction is
> > > always the sign of the truth and th enon-contradiction the sign of
> > the
> > > untruth.
> > > How do we know? Simply by studying the mystery language.
> > >
> > > I don't think that a blind comes always with a contradiction, but
> > I hope
> > > that HPB used contradictions to make it easier for lay-chelas to
> > understand.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
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