Theos-Talk Archives (February 2009 Message tt00080)

Dear Frank,

1) I suppose the leaflet is an image. I do not have it.

2) Yes, you're right: K.H. seems to concur with Hume

3) The quote you gave might help to make things easier to formulate
the issue with letters and numbers:

>   a.. I, II, III, IV, etc., are the seven major or root-races. 
>   b.. 1, 2, 3, etc., are the minor races. 
>   c.. a, a, a, are the subordinate or offshoot races.

I proceed with the understanding that we all agree that we're in the
4th Round and that the issue of 'offshoot races' is not on the table,
though it seems to come into play with Frank's take on the Hume/K.H.
position. 

Please correct me if wrong, but the different views about where the
bulk of humanity is to be classified seem to be as follows:

HPB's interpretation: V-5

Chaterji & Halloway: V-5 (thanks Konstantin)

The Adyar interpretation: V-5

The Pasadena interpretation: V-4

Humes' interpretation: IV-7

K.H.: IV-7

My interpretation of Frank's interpretation of the Hume/K.H. position:
V-4-g (where root-race IV is seen as sub-race 4, and sub-race 7 as
offshoot g. This is of course debatable, but maybe the only way to
press the Hume/KH position into the Pasadena position)

Makes sense?

Govert






--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
<global-theosophy@...> wrote:
>
> Yes.
> And I understand that KH is not against Humes view?
> But, can we have the fascimile version, which are showing the
flyleaves mentioned by KH?
> 
> 
> "Please examine carefully the few additional things I give you on
the fly-leaves. Damodar has received orders to send you No. 3 of
Terry's letters -- a good material for pamphlet No. 3 of Fragments of
Occult Truth. 
> This figure roughly represents the development of humanity on a
planet -- say our earth. Man evolves in seven major or root-races; 49
minor races; and the subordinate races or offshoots, the branchlet
races coming from the latter are not shown. 
> 
> The arrow indicates the direction taken by the evolutionary impulse. 
> 
>   a.. I, II, III, IV, etc., are the seven major or root-races. 
>   b.. 1, 2, 3, etc., are the minor races. 
>   c.. a, a, a, are the subordinate or offshoot races. 
>   d.. N, the initial and terminal point of evolution on the planet. 
>   e.. S, the axial point where the development equilibrates or
adjusts itself in each race evolution. 
>   f.. E, the equatorial points where in the descending arc intellect
overcomes spirituality and in the ascending arc spirituality outstrips
intellect. 
> (N.B. -- The above in D.K.'s hand -- the rest in K.H.'s. -- A.P.S.) 
> 
> P.S. -- In his hurry D.J.K. has made his figure incline somewhat out
of the perpendicular but it will serve as a rough memorandum. He drew
it to represent development on a single planet; but I have added a
word or two to make it apply as well (which it does) to a whole
manwantaric chain of worlds. 
> 
> K.H. "
> 
> http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-14.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M. Sufilight
> 
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Govert Schuller 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 12:11 AM
>   Subject: Theos-World Re: 4th sub-race
> 
> 
>   Dear Morton,
> 
>   I'm sorry to point out that the first quote you gave was O.A. Hume's
>   uncorrected understanding of the issue, not K.H. explanation to
Sinnett. 
> 
>   It's from ML: 14, being "Letter from K.H. Answering Queries. Received
>   by A.O.H., July 9th, 1882." 
> 
>   The second quote is from the same letter and is by K.H., but does not
>   clarify the issue. 
> 
>   Govert
> 
>   --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
>   <global-theosophy@> wrote:
>   >
>   > Maybe this could help?
>   > 
>   > 
>   > Master KH's letter to AP Sinnett, juli 1882:
>   > "That the highest people now on earth belong to the first sub-race
>   of the fifth race, the majority to the seventh sub-race of the fourth
>   race but with remnants of the other sub-races of the fourth race and
>   the seventh sub-race of the third race. Pray set us quite right on
>   this. "...etc. etc.
>   > 
>   > ---
>   > "4th round. -- Intellect has an enormous development in this round.
>   The dumb races will acquire our human speech, on our globe, on which
>   from the 4th race language is perfected and knowledge in physical
>   things increases. At this half-way point of the fourth round, Humanity
>   passes the axial point of the minor manwantaric circle. (Moreover, at
>   the middle point of every major or root race evolution of each round,
>   man passes the equator of his course on that planet, the same rule
>   applying to the whole evolution or the seven rounds of the minor
>   Manwantara -- 7 rounds divided by 2 = 3 1/2 rounds). At this point
>   then the world teems with the results of intellectual activity and
>   spiritual decrease. In the first half of the fourth race, sciences,
>   arts, literature and philosophy were born, eclipsed in one nation,
>   reborn in another. Civilization and intellectual development whirling
>   in septenary cycles as the rest; while it is but in the latter half
>   that the spiritual Ego will begin its real struggle with body and mind
>   to manifest its transcendental powers. Who will help in the
>   forthcoming gigantic struggle? Who? Happy the man who helps a helping
>   hand. 
>   > 
>   > 5th Round. -- The same relative development, and the same struggle
>   continues. "
>   > 
>   > http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-14.htm
>   > 
>   > 
>   > Is there a fascimile somewhere?
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > M. Sufilight
>   > 
>   > 
>   > ----- Original Message ----- 
>   > From: Frank Reitemeyer 
>   > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 4:48 PM
>   > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: 4th sub-race
>   > 
>   > 
>   > Govert wrote:
>   > 
>   > From the quotes below (the 'dead letter' interpretation) it
looks like
>   > we are in Root-race 5 (Aryan), Sub-race 5 (Teutonic). Two quotes
from
>   > HPB and one by 'Alpha' reflecting the understanding of a member.
This
>   > understanding is also reflected in a little graph by Jinarajadasa,
>   > which some might call the Besant-Leadbeater interpretation, but
might
>   > very well be in accordance with HPB. See:
>   > http://users.ez2.net/nick29/theosophy/lessons15.htm
>   > -------------------
>   > 
>   > Frank answers:
>   > Thank you, Govert, for the link to the graph of the
Besant-Leadbeater 
>   > interpretation of the doctrine of the races.
>   > From where to they have the names of the races? From HPB?
>   > From their "Maha-Chohan"? Or from the Logos?
>   > 
>   > -------------------
>   > 
>   > Govert wrote:
>   > 
>   > If HPB contradicted herself, and if to save her from the charge of
>   > inconsistency by saying that some of her statements were blinds, in
>   > what way are we to reconcile these contradictions? How do we know
>   > what's a blind and what not? And if a contradiction is found and one
>   > of the statements therefore allegedly a blind, does that make the
>   > subject more important?
>   > 
>   > -------------------
>   > 
>   > Frank answers:
>   > 
>   > I hope, that HPB contradicted herself, as Europeans still greatest 
>   > metaphysicial - if not theosophist - Hegel says, that a
>   contradiction is 
>   > always the sign of the truth and th enon-contradiction the sign of
>   the 
>   > untruth.
>   > How do we know? Simply by studying the mystery language.
>   > 
>   > I don't think that a blind comes always with a contradiction, but
>   I hope 
>   > that HPB used contradictions to make it easier for lay-chelas to
>   understand.
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   >
> 
> 
>   
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>