Theos-Talk Archives (January 2009 Message tt00029)

Hi Joe:

I just want to say thank you for expressing your thoughts.  I read 
your last few messages and they are very thought provoking.  Your 
ideas bring clarity and make me wonder about the place of theosophy 
in this century.  I will print out and give your posts to the leader 
of our study group because I think he will like reading them.

I hope you keep voicing your perspective.


Barbara


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph P. Fulton" 
<jpfulton314@...> wrote:
>
> Very good question.  I have to admit that sometimes I am quite 
amazed
> at the lack of comparative studies.  There appear to be a number of
> things involved, some are philosophical, and some are quite, how
> should we say, prosaic?  I'll answer the questions in order.
> 
> 1) Please see the site: 
> http://www.questbooks.net/aboutquest.cfm#staff for contact info and
> submission guidelines. 
> 
> 2) Have you ever done programming in a branch or study center?  You
> find out one thing real quick.  You're on your own.  The most common
> reaction from a programming person doesn't have anything to do with
> what "Wheaton" or "Adyar" wants.  Getting something, i.e. anything
> together is the best many can hope for.  The prevailing attitude in
> most groups (having heard this enough times as a Federation Pres.) 
is
> if "Wheaton wants to tell us what to do, they can come do it 
themselves".
> 
> 3) See #2. Headquarters offers study courses to groups, but I've
> never, ever heard of word coming down from HQ saying that a group
> "must" study something.  I've even visited groups where I was kindly
> told to leave for asking if they read or studied the SD or ML. 
> Running a local group is really a "by the seat of your pants" type 
of
> thing.  I have some wonderful horror stories of times where speakers
> didn't show or someone in the audience tried to make a virtual
> whipping post out of the speaker or their topic.
> 
> 4) Applying a style of logic normally ascribed to Nagarjuna, this
> answer will apply to Questions #5, 6, 7, and 8.  If a local group is
> fortunate enough to have someone with an Eastern philosophical
> background, chances are this type of debate goes on quite a bit. 
> However, in this organization, there seems to be much less emphasis 
on
> the tradition of inquiry and open examination.  The prevailing
> attitude that I observe in most groups is that of your typical
> "believer", not much different than what you would find at a local
> Methodist or Congregationalist church.  And, to paraphrase
> Krishnamuti:  "People choose their leaders out of confusion, 
therefore
> the leaders are also confused."
> 
> So the answer to Questions 4 - 8 is "yes, all the above are 
allowed".
>  The reality is, and mostly for the reasons given above, is that it
> just doesn't happen.
> 
> 9)  I guess it depends on who you call an "Adyar" writer or 
teacher. 
> Probably the most well-known piece from the "Adyar" camp is "There 
is
> No Religion Higher Than Truth" by E.L. Gardner
> (http://hpb.narod.ru/NoReligion.htm).  As a member of the British
> Section, Gardner lays out a comparison between various teachings of
> HPB and CW Leadbeater.  In regard to the teaching of later
> "commentators" perhaps the issue is one of not having anything new 
to
> say vs. not saying anything.  In the Adyar tradition, virtually
> everything is an expansion on the writings of CWL.  Now that being
> said, there are some fine exceptions, such as "The Divine Plan" by
> Geoffrey Barborka, and "The Reader's Guide to the Mahatma Letters" 
by
> Virginia Hanson.  One other little known source, and perhaps one of
> the most wonderfully objective pieces I've ever seen was a video of
> the history of the Theosophical Movement, by the late John Cooper.  
He
> did a brilliant exposition on the various traditions within the
> Theosophical movement without being rude or condescending to any
> particular viewpoint or organization.  This is something (IMHO) that
> all of the various organizations within the Theosophical movement
> should have in their libraries.
> 
> I would like to analyze the entire issue of what is taught in the
> Theosophical Society from a different viewpoint.  The autonomy of
> local groups is pretty absolute.  The only requirement that I am 
aware
> of for groups is that they use "Theosophical materials" (presumably
> from the Adyar organization) in "Theosophy" classes.
> 
> Morten, I agree very strongly with your view of the TS as an
> "investigatory" organization.  A major portion of the issues we deal
> with now date back to the post-Coulomb period when HPB was in Europe
> and the ES was formed.  As soon as this direct line to a "higher
> authority" was established with the Europeans, free-thought, and the
> investigatory nature of the TS diminished greatly.  It's a funny
> phenomenon, slightly alluded to in the Mahatma Letters (3rd Ed. 
Letter
> 16 "Devachan" Pg. 24) regarding the existence of a pair of 
undisclosed
> Skandhas.  These two are associated, according to the letter, with
> "the efficacy of vain rights and ceremonies, in prayers and
> intercession".  Perhaps it is the action of this attribute of mind
> which is mostly responsible for the current state of affairs.
> 
> I have one other question.  Who are the finest scholars in the
> movement today?  David Riegle, Daniel Caldwell, Paul Johnson, Joy
> Mills?  Where is the output from these individuals, presumably 
experts
> in Theosophical writing?  Who are they challenging in the world of
> science, religion and philosophy?
> 
> Answer that question, and you'll have the answer to everything you
> asked above.  The sad truth is that the Theosophical movement as a
> whole is quite a marginal movement, of little importance to anyone
> today aside from its own participants.  Nobody really cares about 
the
> arguments made on the forums or in the magazines because we just 
talk
> to ourselves.  In a sense, I can get that by going downtown and
> listening to the winos and drug addicts talk to the voices in their
> head.  I guess, based on that, there are a number of hobbies one 
could
> engage in that are more likely to be of benefit to society or cause
> more damage.
> 
> Perhaps if we stopped pretending to have all of the answers and got
> back to asking questions, such mundane little issues as membership,
> who is President, and what do we teach may become meaningful again.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
> <global-theosophy@> wrote:
> >
> > Dear friends
> > 
> > My views are:
> > 
> > A new year is beginning in peoples minds.
> > 
> > It is now more than 133 years since the founding of the moderne
> visdom teachings - The Theosophical Society year 1875.
> > 
> > Status at Conventions occurs.
> > It could be well for members at TS Adyar to consider the following
> questions and words and their value.
> > 
> > 
> > H.P. Blavatsky said:
> > "...Contrast alone can enable us to appreciate things at their 
right
> value; and unless a judge compares notes and hears 
> > both sides he can hardly come to a correct decision."     H.P.
> Blavatsky. The Theosophist, July, 1881, p. 218.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > *** THE QUESTIONS to CONSIDER ***
> > 
> > I would appreciate if anyone would care to answer the following
> questions, so that we may be able to know about TS Adyar more 
fully...
> > 
> > 1.
> > Who decides what kind of books and what books at all are being 
sold
> at Quest Books?
> > Who decides, what Bookshop and what books by what authors - TS 
Adyar
> promotes?
> > What is the present day policy and why?
> > 
> > 
> > 2.
> > Who decides what kind of lectures are emphasised within TS 
branches?
> > What is the present day policy and why?
> > 
> > 3.
> > Who decides what books one are allowed to lecture on?
> > Are lectures on comparative study of various authors allowed 
freely?
> > What is the present day policy and why?
> > 
> > 
> > 4.
> > Are lectures on commparative studies beteween H. P. Blavatsky vs. 
C.
> W. Leadbeater allowed?
> > 
> > 5.
> > Are lectures on commparative studies beteween H. P. Blavatsky vs.
> Annie Besant allowed?
> > 
> > 6.
> > Are lectures on commparative studies beteween H. P. Blavatsky vs.
> Alice A. Bialey / Lucis Trust allowed?
> > 
> > 7.
> > Are lectures on commparative studies beteween H. P. Blavatsky vs.
> Radha Burnier allowed?
> > 
> > 8.
> > Are lectures on commparative studies beteween H. P. Blavatsky vs. 
J.
> Krishnamurti allowed?
> > 
> > 9.
> > Have any TS Adyar Teacher ever done an effort in the direction of
> comparative study - large or small - between H. P. Blavatsky and all
> of the aboves techings? If not, why not?
> > 
> > 
> > 10.
> > In the old H. P. Blavatsky days - no false claims were permitted 
to
> go unchallanged for a longer time by H. P. Blavatsky herself. A 
clear
> stance on various new religious groups was - ALWAYS - given in the
> Theosophist and Lucifer etc. when the situation demanded it. - Is 
this
> what is happening today?
> > 
> > Are false claims being allowed to flourish within TS today?
> > 
> > 
> > - - -
> > 
> > If time permit me, I will in a study, and if no others will, seek 
to
> compare 
> > H. P. Blavatsky with all the above - C. W. Leadbeater. Annie 
Besant,
> J. Krishnamurti, Radha Burnier, Alice A. Bailey. And I will 
eventually
> publish my study before this my phycial body reach its death.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > M. Sufilight
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>