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Re: Theos-World Questions about ABailey group.

Dec 30, 2008 10:30 AM
by christinaleestemaker


As I understand well TS leaders misunderstood HPB and they made 
certain mistakes.Not HPB has been to blaim, only she did not work in 
sequental way.That is the only problem.
Christina






--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "christinaleestemaker" 
<christinaleestemaker@...> wrote:
>
> SUMMARY OF THE TIBETAN'S WORK (1919-1943)
> In 1919, during the month of November, I made a contact with Alice 
A. 
> Bailey and asked her to do some writing for me and also to 
undertake 
> the publishing of certain books which - under the sequential giving 
> out of truth - were due to appear. She refused immediately, having 
no 
> sympathy with the flood of so-called occult literature being passed 
> out to the public by the various occult groups, having no 
experience 
> in writing for the public, and having also a profound dislike of 
> every form of psychic writing and of psychic work. Later, she 
changed 
> her mind when I explained to her that telepathic rapport was a 
proven 
> thing and a matter of scientific interest, that she was neither 
> clairaudient or clairvoyant and never would be and that (above all) 
> the test of truth was the truth itself. I told her that if she 
would 
> write for a period of a month, the material transcribed would prove 
> to her whether it contained truth, whether it evoked intuitive 
> understanding and recognition and whether it had in it that which 
> might be of value in the new spiritual era which was impending. 
She, 
> therefore, overcame her disgust of this type of work and of the 
many 
> occult presentations of truth which were prevalent; she only 
> stipulated that the writing should go out with no claims whatsoever 
> and that the teachings should stand or fall on their own merits.
> The first book published was Initiation, Human and Solar. This was 
> the result of her first effort to do this kind of work; it laid the 
> foundation of all the succeeding books. Since then she has written 
> for me for nearly twenty-five years. The books have gone out in 
line 
> with a deep, underlying purpose which it may interest you to know 
> about and they have received a worldwide recognition.
> Initiation, Human and Solar was intended to bring the fact of the 
> Hierarchy to public attention. This had been done by H. P. B. by 
> inference and statement but not in any sequential form. The 
> Theosophical Society had taught the fact of the [778] Masters, 
though 
> H. P. Blavatsky (in a communication to the Esoteric Section) stated 
> that she bitterly regretted so doing. This teaching was 
> misinterpreted by later theosophical leaders and they made certain 
> basic mistakes. The Masters whom they portrayed were characterized 
by 
> an impossible infallibility, because the Masters are themselves 
> evolving; the teaching given endorsed an engrossing interest in 
self-
> development and an intense focusing upon personal unfoldment and 
> liberation; the people who were indicated as initiates and senior 
> disciples were entirely mediocre with no influence outside the 
> Theosophical Society itself; complete devotion to the Masters was 
> also emphasized - devotion to their personalities. These Masters 
were 
> also shown as interfering with the organization life of the various 
> occult groups which claimed to be working under their direction. 
They 
> were made responsible for the mistakes of the leaders of the groups 
> who took refuge under such statements as: The Master has instructed 
> me to say, etc., the Master wants the following work to be done, or 
> the Master wants the membership to do thus and so. Those who obeyed 
> were regarded as good members; those who refused to be interested 
and 
> obedient were looked upon as renegades. The freedom of the 
individual 
> was constantly infringed and the weaknesses and ambitions of the 
> leaders were provided with an alibi. Knowing all this well, A. A. 
B. 
> refused to be a party to any such constantly recurring activity, 
for 
> such is the history of practically all the known occult groups 
which 
> attract the attention of the public. Even had I wanted to work in 
> such a way (which no one affiliated with the Hierarchy ever does), 
I 
> would have found no collaboration from her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-
> theosophy@> wrote:
> >
> > Dear friends and Joseph
> > 
> > My views are:
> > 
> > Jospeh asked:
> > "From that point of view, for the Lucis Trust, and others 
> associated 
> > with the work of AAB, the conflict is only apparent. Does anyone 
> > have any evidence of Lucis Trust or any AAB related organization 
> > actively participating in a partisan political role?"
> > 
> > 
> > M. Sufilight says:
> > I will seek to give you an answer, which later can be expanded 
upon.
> > I will tell you that I - because of certain circumstances - some 
> ten years ago were a member of an Alice A. Bailey group, and that I 
> am today banned from some of the Alice A. Bailey forums, perhaps 
> because they do not like me to question the validity of their 
agendas 
> when compared with H. P. Blavatskys teachings.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >>> Alice A. Bailey wrote the following very political words: <<<
> > 
> > 
> > "For the first time in human history, the lines of demarcation 
> between that which is right from the angle of the spiritual values 
> (the essential freedom of the human spirit) and that which is wrong 
> (the imprisonment of the human spirit by materialistic conditions) 
> are clearly perceived by the majority of the nations of the planet. 
> Within the United Nations is the germ and the seed of a great 
> international and meditating, reflective group - a group of 
thinking 
> and informed men and women in whose hands lies the destiny of 
> humanity. This is largely under the control of many fourth ray 
> disciples, if you could but realize it, and their point of 
meditative 
> focus is the intuitional or buddhic plane - the plane upon which 
all 
> hierarchical activity is today to be found."
> > [Alice B. Bailey, Discipleship in the New Age (Lucis Press, 
1955), 
> Vol.II, p.220.]
> > http://nimrodgroup.org/AAB/
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > We know of the following links and fact about Lucis Trust and its 
> affiliated New Group of World Servers - and World Goodwill and 
> Triangles.
> > 
> > 1. Lucis Trust worldwide: http://www.lucistrust.org/en/
> service_activities/worldwide_network
> > 2. Lucis Trust - About God's plan, HIS plan - 10 min. Video.
> > http://www.lucistrust.org/en/productions/programs_on_youtube
> > 
> > 3. Maybe Lucis Trust as an organisation are not directly involved 
> with political issues.
> > But the fact is that a great number og affiliated groups are so 
> involved. I guess partly due to the unclear position given by Lucis 
> Trust on hoiw it relates to politics - through Alice A. Baileys 
> books. And the unclear communication in the Alice A. Bailey books 
on 
> whether the focus on politics autght to change or not, when 
compared 
> to H. P. Blavatsky- TS - and the original stance stance rejection 
of 
> politics and political involvement.
> > 
> > Her are a number og heavily politically realated groups:
> > 
> > A. - The New Group of World Servers - with hundreds of affiliated 
> groups - some political!
> > http://www.ngws.org/service/Groups1.htm
> > Their Newsletter praising The United Nations - http://
www.ngws.org/
> service/newsletter.htm  
> > 
> > B. - Manitou Foundation - afiliated with high level politician 
> MAURICE STRONG and wife.
> > Maurice Strong was a counsler within the UN Security Counsil and 
a 
> long time employee within UN. - http://www.manitou.org/MI/mhcp.php 
> > or http://home.sprynet.com/~eastwood01/mstrong.htm
> > 
> > C. - The Institute for Planetary Synthesis --- Rooster status 
> within UN.
> > http://www.ipsgeneva.com/angl/aonu.html
> > 
> > D. - World Goodwill - a part of LUCIS TRUST - "The work of World 
> Goodwill is based on the principles of brotherhood, human unity, 
> sharing and cooperation; and on the fundamental rights and freedoms 
> embodied in the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human 
Rights. 
> World Goodwill is a world service organisation practising the 
> principle of non-discrimination in race, religion, ideology, and 
> political and economic convictions. "
> > 
> > "World Goodwill is an accredited non-governmental organisation 
with 
> the Department of Public Information of the United Nations. It 
> maintains informal relations with certain of the Specialised 
Agencies 
> and with a wide range of national and international non-
governmental 
> organisations. World Goodwill is an activity of the Lucis Trust, 
> which is on the Roster of the United Nations Economic and Social 
> Council. "
> > http://www.WorldGoodwill.org
> > 
> > Yet - World Goodwill is an organization that claims to be 
preparing 
> the way for a one-world religion and a one-world government. It 
> maintains headquarters in the cities of New York, London and 
Geneva. 
> The group publishes literature as well as conducts symposiums 
related 
> to its goals, which are consistent with those of Lucis Trust. Much 
of 
> its public literature shows no signs of its occultic background 
> nature, making it the perfect vehicle for attracting into its New 
Age 
> influence people who would reject overtly religious or occult 
> philosophy. 
> > 
> > 
> > - - - 
> > 
> > 
> > So, if you ask me, Alice A. Bailey and Lucis Trust really have a 
> whole lot to do with spreading political activities within the 
United 
> Nations, while they await their world Saviour, whom they most often 
> announce by calling Christian names like Christ and HE, to walk 
about 
> in the flesh. 
> > 
> > And becasue of the content of the Alice A. Bailey books I would 
> challenge any honest Alice A. Bailey supporter to tell me that 
Lucis 
> Trust are not WAY TOO MUCH accepting all these political AAB groups 
> activties without protesting. And that they accept it - to such an 
> degree, that they find themselves to be a - farce - when they claim 
> to be non-political!
> > 
> > I find it high time, that Lucis Trust became much more honest and 
> compassionate about its real attutide towards political activities 
> and how far it is willing to become affiliated with the United 
> Nations - and its to me - very non-esoterical Security Counsil! - 
And 
> also their deep-freeze attitudes towards The Middle East. 
> > 
> > - I have never received an clear answer to these issue. Everytime 
I 
> ask any Alice A. Bailey supporter, they keep their mouths totally 
> shut. - I end up getting the feeling that they are not honest about 
> their mission.
> > 
> > Is any Alice A. Bailey supporter able to help me out?
> > 
> > ---
> > 
> > 
> > H.P. Blavatsky said:
> > "...Contrast alone can enable us to appreciate things at their 
> right value; and unless a judge compares notes and hears 
> > both sides he can hardly come to a correct decision."     H.P. 
> Blavatsky. The Theosophist, July, 1881, p. 218.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > M. Sufilight
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   From: Joseph P. Fulton 
> >   To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> >   Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 11:51 PM
> >   Subject: Re: Theos-World Questions about ABailey group.
> > 
> > 
> >   And in a coda to the last message, I'll have to stand up for 
AAB 
> in 
> >   the "non-political" realm. Typically, non-political refers to 
> >   staying out of partisan political matters, i.e. backing 
> candidates or 
> >   specific political plans, by either providing monetary or 
> volunteer 
> >   support directly to these political personages/movements.
> > 
> >   The TS (whatever tradition) organziations can come out 
abstractly 
> and 
> >   say that they "support" such and such a position (i.e. 
opposition 
> to 
> >   genetically engineered food products), however, unless they are 
> found 
> >   to actively (as an organization) provide funding or volunteer 
> >   services then there is no issue.
> > 
> >   From that point of view, for the Lucis Trust, and others 
> associated 
> >   with the work of AAB, the conflict is only apparent. Does 
anyone 
> >   have any evidence of Lucis Trust or any AAB related 
organization 
> >   actively participating in a partisan political role?
> > 
> >   A quick perusal of their IRS Form 990 for 2006 reveals nothing 
> >   reported out of line regarding "political" work. They have to 
> reveal 
> >   that kind of stuff or their ~$1.2MM in assets become taxable 
> pretty 
> >   quickly.
> > 
> >   Joe
> > 
> >   --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "christinaleestemaker" 
> >   <christinaleestemaker@> wrote:
> >   >
> >   > Because HPB wrote for other public and used too much history.
> >   > Christina
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > -- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" 
> <global-
> >   > theosophy@> wrote:
> >   > >
> >   > > Dear Christina
> >   > > 
> >   > > My views are:
> >   > > 
> >   > > 
> >   > > Christina wrote:
> >   > > "Than I think Alice A Bailey has different way in 
teaching , 
> more 
> >   > to 
> >   > > the point."
> >   > > 
> >   > > M. Sufilight:
> >   > > May I politely ask: - In what manner do you find H. P. 
> Blavatsky 
> >   > not being to the point compared with Alice A. Bailey? 
> >   > > 
> >   > > 
> >   > > 
> >   > > 
> >   > > 
> >   > > M. Sufilight
> >   > > 
> >   > > 
> >   > > 
> >   > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   > > From: christinaleestemaker 
> >   > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> >   > > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:14 PM
> >   > > Subject: Theos-World Questions about ABailey group.
> >   > > 
> >   > > 
> >   > > They are political in this case : round 2000 they give all 
> the 
> >   > books 
> >   > > free to download on internet and later in this millenium 
> >   totally 
> >   > not 
> >   > > one.
> >   > > While Theosophical literature was not able on internet 
during 
> a 
> >   > lot 
> >   > > of years and now TS; especially America gives a lot for 
free.
> >   > > So who is better?
> >   > > There can be made enough money on lectures, seminars and 
> >   > courses.And 
> >   > > not to forget people stay buying the books.Especially in 
> >   > > courses.Nobody goes with his laptop into course.
> >   > > And I think it is very important to keep as much as books 
of 
> >   > > references online too.
> >   > > I have for example Collected writitng on CD, but easier if 
I 
> >   need 
> >   > > some references to look at the internet version.Also it is 
> good 
> >   > to 
> >   > > have the CD near it, for what now is on-line can be away 
next 
> >   > year.
> >   > > 
> >   > > Than I think Alice A Bailey has different way in teaching , 
> >   more 
> >   > to 
> >   > > the point.Not whole stories round a subject,where people 
need 
> >   to 
> >   > fly 
> >   > > over.
> >   > > But that is my opinion and experiences.
> >   > > Christina
> >   > > 
> >   > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" 
> >   <global-
> >   > > theosophy@> wrote:
> >   > > >
> >   > > > Dear friends
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > My vieus are:
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > Is the Alice A. Bailey groups and LUCIS TRUST really non-
> >   > political?
> >   > > > AND is this coinciding with H. P. Blavatsky's and H. S. 
> >   > Olcott's 
> >   > > teachings?
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > 1.
> >   > > > At the front page on the LUCIS TRUST hompage - The Alice 
A. 
> >   > Bailey 
> >   > > groups main website if any we find that the claim to be a 
non-
> >   > > political group:
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > LUCIS TRUST
> >   > > > The worldwide activities of the Lucis Trust, founded by 
> Alice 
> >   > and 
> >   > > Foster Bailey, are dedicated to establishing right human 
> >   > relations.
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > The activities of the Lucis Trust promote the education 
of 
> >   the 
> >   > > human mind towards recognition and practice of the 
spiritual 
> >   > > principles and values upon which a stable and 
interdependent 
> >   > world 
> >   > > society may be based. The Lucis Trust is non-political and 
> non-
> >   > > sectarian. It sponsors no special creed or dogma. 
> >   > > > http://www.lucistrust.org/
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > 2.
> >   > > > Seven years after the birth of the U.N., a book was 
> published 
> >   > by 
> >   > > the theosophist and founder of the Lucis Trust, Alice 
Bailey, 
> >   > > claiming that,
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > "Evidence of the growth of the human intellect along the 
> >   needed 
> >   > > receptive lines [for the preparation of the New Age] can be 
> >   seen 
> >   > in 
> >   > > the "planning" of various nations and in the efforts of the 
> >   > United 
> >   > > Nations to formulate a world plan... From the very start of 
> >   this 
> >   > un-
> >   > > foldment, three occult factors have governed the 
development 
> of 
> >   > all 
> >   > > these plans".
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > [Alice B. Bailey, Discipleship in the New Age (Lucis 
Press, 
> >   > > 1955), Vol.II, p.35.]
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > Although she did not spell out clearly the identity of 
> these 
> >   > > 'three occult factors', she did reveal to her students that,
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > "Within the United Nations is the germ and seed of a 
great 
> >   > > international and meditating, reflective group - a group of 
> >   > thinking 
> >   > > and informed men and women in whose hands lies the destiny 
of 
> >   > > humanity. This is largely under the control of many fourth 
> ray 
> >   > > disciples, if you could but realize it, and their point of 
> >   > meditative 
> >   > > focus is the intuitional or buddhic plane - the plane upon 
> >   which 
> >   > all 
> >   > > hierarchical activity is today to be found".
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > [Ibid., p.220.]
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > To this end, the Lucis Trust (formerly known as the 
Lucifer 
> >   > Trust), 
> >   > > under the leadership of Foster and Alice Bailey, started a 
> >   group 
> >   > > called 'World Goodwill' - an official Non-Governmental 
> >   > Organization 
> >   > > within the United Nations. The stated aim of this group is 
> "to 
> >   > > cooperate in the world of preparation for the reappearance 
of 
> >   the 
> >   > > Christ" [One Earth, the magazine of the Findhorn 
Foundation, 
> >   > October/
> >   > > November 1986, Vol. 6, Issue 6, p.24.] 
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > - - - 
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > Now, I would really like to know, what your answer is?
> >   > > > If not, I ask why not?
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > M. Sufilight
> >   > > > 
> >   > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >   > > >
> >   > > 
> >   > > 
> >   > > 
> >   > > 
> >   > > 
> >   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >   > >
> >   >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >    
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>





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