Re: Theos-World Questions about ABailey group.
Dec 30, 2008 10:18 AM
by christinaleestemaker
Right Bailey groups think they are new fashioned and are for the new
ages, while HPB was that before.I heared them many times saying.In
the group for oriental studies.(1980)
Than the summary I citated that was the written by the I and me, so
DK.
But how DK could ask A Bailey to write, while se have not met him
personally?
And why he should mentioned the many mistakes made by HPB, because he
was a chela from KH?
I don't think the I and me was DK
Christina
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-
theosophy@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Friends and Christina
>
> My views are:
>
> To answer who the "I" and "Me" is.
> It is according to Alice A. Bailey - the one she called Master D.K.
- She writes about it in the same book.
>
> Try here "An Unfinished Autobiography", p. 245 or similar.
> http://nimrodgroup.org/AAB/
>
>
> - - -
>
> A few comments to the quote...
>
> 1.
> Christina replied to my previous e-mail and quoted:
> "The
> Theosophical Society had taught the fact of the [778] Masters,
though
> H. P. Blavatsky (in a communication to the Esoteric Section) stated
> that she bitterly regretted so doing. "
>
>
> M. Sufilight asks and comments:
> Is this not a distorted view of the matter as it was given by H. P.
Blavatsky?
>
> If my memory serves me well I remmeber, that she said something
about she was forced to do so because of for instance A. P. Sinnetts
unfortunate writings about the Masters before she herself did
anything of the sort publicly. Another issue is: Theosophical
teachings operates alwyas in accordance with time, place, pupil,
teacher, people and circumstances. It operates to create a spiritual
impact - and the content is not always what people wants it to be.
>
> My view is: The fact is, that the book "Initiation Human and Solar"
made it alle much worse.
> And Alice A. Bailey (D.K.) claims that it was D.K. who in fact
"wrote a large part" of the Secret Doctrine given by H. P. Blavatsky.
("He it was who dictated a large part of that momentous book The
Secret Doctrine, and who showed to H. P. Blavatsky many of the
pictures, and gave her much of the data that is to be found in that
book." - IHS, p. 58) - Mahatma Letters to Hubbe Schleiden says
clearly the opposite - letters which HPB received facimiles of in
1886. (http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/invit-sd/invsd-4.htm -
scroll down to the links in the bottom.)
>
> - - -
> Christina replied to my previous e-mail and quoted:
> "They were made responsible for the mistakes of the leaders of the
groups
> who took refuge under such statements as: The Master has instructed
> me to say, etc., the Master wants the following work to be done, or
> the Master wants the membership to do thus and so. Those who obeyed
> were regarded as good members; those who refused to be interested
and
> obedient were looked upon as renegades. The freedom of the
individual
> was constantly infringed and the weaknesses and ambitions of the
> leaders were provided with an alibi. "
>
>
> M. Sufilight asks and comments:
> But...As far as I am concerned, this is exactly what a great number
of Alice A. Bailey followers are guilty of themselves today. I have
been barred from three forums discussing Alice A. Baileys teachings.
There seems to be no willingness what so ever among Alice A. Bailey
followers to compare the teachings by H. P. Blavatsky with their own
favorite food the Alice A. Bailey books.
> Theosophy was in its early days very commited to compartive
studies. Today Alice A. Bailey groups throw this idea way down the
drain, as far as I am aware. Maybe some can show me something else?
>
>
>
> M. Sufilight
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: christinaleestemaker
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 6:28 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Questions about ABailey group.
>
>
> SUMMARY OF THE TIBETAN'S WORK (1919-1943)
> In 1919, during the month of November, I made a contact with
Alice A.
> Bailey and asked her to do some writing for me and also to
undertake
> the publishing of certain books which - under the sequential
giving
> out of truth - were due to appear. She refused immediately,
having no
> sympathy with the flood of so-called occult literature being
passed
> out to the public by the various occult groups, having no
experience
> in writing for the public, and having also a profound dislike of
> every form of psychic writing and of psychic work. Later, she
changed
> her mind when I explained to her that telepathic rapport was a
proven
> thing and a matter of scientific interest, that she was neither
> clairaudient or clairvoyant and never would be and that (above
all)
> the test of truth was the truth itself. I told her that if she
would
> write for a period of a month, the material transcribed would
prove
> to her whether it contained truth, whether it evoked intuitive
> understanding and recognition and whether it had in it that which
> might be of value in the new spiritual era which was impending.
She,
> therefore, overcame her disgust of this type of work and of the
many
> occult presentations of truth which were prevalent; she only
> stipulated that the writing should go out with no claims
whatsoever
> and that the teachings should stand or fall on their own merits.
> The first book published was Initiation, Human and Solar. This
was
> the result of her first effort to do this kind of work; it laid
the
> foundation of all the succeeding books. Since then she has
written
> for me for nearly twenty-five years. The books have gone out in
line
> with a deep, underlying purpose which it may interest you to know
> about and they have received a worldwide recognition.
> Initiation, Human and Solar was intended to bring the fact of the
> Hierarchy to public attention. This had been done by H. P. B. by
> inference and statement but not in any sequential form. The
> Theosophical Society had taught the fact of the [778] Masters,
though
> H. P. Blavatsky (in a communication to the Esoteric Section)
stated
> that she bitterly regretted so doing. This teaching was
> misinterpreted by later theosophical leaders and they made
certain
> basic mistakes. The Masters whom they portrayed were
characterized by
> an impossible infallibility, because the Masters are themselves
> evolving; the teaching given endorsed an engrossing interest in
self-
> development and an intense focusing upon personal unfoldment and
> liberation; the people who were indicated as initiates and senior
> disciples were entirely mediocre with no influence outside the
> Theosophical Society itself; complete devotion to the Masters was
> also emphasized - devotion to their personalities. These Masters
were
> also shown as interfering with the organization life of the
various
> occult groups which claimed to be working under their direction.
They
> were made responsible for the mistakes of the leaders of the
groups
> who took refuge under such statements as: The Master has
instructed
> me to say, etc., the Master wants the following work to be done,
or
> the Master wants the membership to do thus and so. Those who
obeyed
> were regarded as good members; those who refused to be interested
and
> obedient were looked upon as renegades. The freedom of the
individual
> was constantly infringed and the weaknesses and ambitions of the
> leaders were provided with an alibi. Knowing all this well, A. A.
B.
> refused to be a party to any such constantly recurring activity,
for
> such is the history of practically all the known occult groups
which
> attract the attention of the public. Even had I wanted to work in
> such a way (which no one affiliated with the Hierarchy ever
does), I
> would have found no collaboration from her.
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-
> theosophy@> wrote:
> >
> > Dear friends and Joseph
> >
> > My views are:
> >
> > Jospeh asked:
> > "From that point of view, for the Lucis Trust, and others
> associated
> > with the work of AAB, the conflict is only apparent. Does
anyone
> > have any evidence of Lucis Trust or any AAB related
organization
> > actively participating in a partisan political role?"
> >
> >
> > M. Sufilight says:
> > I will seek to give you an answer, which later can be expanded
upon.
> > I will tell you that I - because of certain circumstances -
some
> ten years ago were a member of an Alice A. Bailey group, and that
I
> am today banned from some of the Alice A. Bailey forums, perhaps
> because they do not like me to question the validity of their
agendas
> when compared with H. P. Blavatskys teachings.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >>> Alice A. Bailey wrote the following very political words:
<<<
> >
> >
> > "For the first time in human history, the lines of demarcation
> between that which is right from the angle of the spiritual
values
> (the essential freedom of the human spirit) and that which is
wrong
> (the imprisonment of the human spirit by materialistic
conditions)
> are clearly perceived by the majority of the nations of the
planet.
> Within the United Nations is the germ and the seed of a great
> international and meditating, reflective group - a group of
thinking
> and informed men and women in whose hands lies the destiny of
> humanity. This is largely under the control of many fourth ray
> disciples, if you could but realize it, and their point of
meditative
> focus is the intuitional or buddhic plane - the plane upon which
all
> hierarchical activity is today to be found."
> > [Alice B. Bailey, Discipleship in the New Age (Lucis Press,
1955),
> Vol.II, p.220.]
> > http://nimrodgroup.org/AAB/
> >
> >
> >
> > We know of the following links and fact about Lucis Trust and
its
> affiliated New Group of World Servers - and World Goodwill and
> Triangles.
> >
> > 1. Lucis Trust worldwide: http://www.lucistrust.org/en/
> service_activities/worldwide_network
> > 2. Lucis Trust - About God's plan, HIS plan - 10 min. Video.
> > http://www.lucistrust.org/en/productions/programs_on_youtube
> >
> > 3. Maybe Lucis Trust as an organisation are not directly
involved
> with political issues.
> > But the fact is that a great number og affiliated groups are so
> involved. I guess partly due to the unclear position given by
Lucis
> Trust on hoiw it relates to politics - through Alice A. Baileys
> books. And the unclear communication in the Alice A. Bailey books
on
> whether the focus on politics autght to change or not, when
compared
> to H. P. Blavatsky- TS - and the original stance stance rejection
of
> politics and political involvement.
> >
> > Her are a number og heavily politically realated groups:
> >
> > A. - The New Group of World Servers - with hundreds of
affiliated
> groups - some political!
> > http://www.ngws.org/service/Groups1.htm
> > Their Newsletter praising The United Nations - http://
www.ngws.org/
> service/newsletter.htm
> >
> > B. - Manitou Foundation - afiliated with high level politician
> MAURICE STRONG and wife.
> > Maurice Strong was a counsler within the UN Security Counsil
and a
> long time employee within UN. - http://www.manitou.org/MI/
mhcp.php
> > or http://home.sprynet.com/~eastwood01/mstrong.htm
> >
> > C. - The Institute for Planetary Synthesis --- Rooster status
> within UN.
> > http://www.ipsgeneva.com/angl/aonu.html
> >
> > D. - World Goodwill - a part of LUCIS TRUST - "The work of
World
> Goodwill is based on the principles of brotherhood, human unity,
> sharing and cooperation; and on the fundamental rights and
freedoms
> embodied in the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human
Rights.
> World Goodwill is a world service organisation practising the
> principle of non-discrimination in race, religion, ideology, and
> political and economic convictions. "
> >
> > "World Goodwill is an accredited non-governmental organisation
with
> the Department of Public Information of the United Nations. It
> maintains informal relations with certain of the Specialised
Agencies
> and with a wide range of national and international non-
governmental
> organisations. World Goodwill is an activity of the Lucis Trust,
> which is on the Roster of the United Nations Economic and Social
> Council. "
> > http://www.WorldGoodwill.org
> >
> > Yet - World Goodwill is an organization that claims to be
preparing
> the way for a one-world religion and a one-world government. It
> maintains headquarters in the cities of New York, London and
Geneva.
> The group publishes literature as well as conducts symposiums
related
> to its goals, which are consistent with those of Lucis Trust.
Much of
> its public literature shows no signs of its occultic background
> nature, making it the perfect vehicle for attracting into its New
Age
> influence people who would reject overtly religious or occult
> philosophy.
> >
> >
> > - - -
> >
> >
> > So, if you ask me, Alice A. Bailey and Lucis Trust really have
a
> whole lot to do with spreading political activities within the
United
> Nations, while they await their world Saviour, whom they most
often
> announce by calling Christian names like Christ and HE, to walk
about
> in the flesh.
> >
> > And becasue of the content of the Alice A. Bailey books I would
> challenge any honest Alice A. Bailey supporter to tell me that
Lucis
> Trust are not WAY TOO MUCH accepting all these political AAB
groups
> activties without protesting. And that they accept it - to such
an
> degree, that they find themselves to be a - farce - when they
claim
> to be non-political!
> >
> > I find it high time, that Lucis Trust became much more honest
and
> compassionate about its real attutide towards political
activities
> and how far it is willing to become affiliated with the United
> Nations - and its to me - very non-esoterical Security Counsil! -
And
> also their deep-freeze attitudes towards The Middle East.
> >
> > - I have never received an clear answer to these issue.
Everytime I
> ask any Alice A. Bailey supporter, they keep their mouths totally
> shut. - I end up getting the feeling that they are not honest
about
> their mission.
> >
> > Is any Alice A. Bailey supporter able to help me out?
> >
> > ---
> >
> >
> > H.P. Blavatsky said:
> > "...Contrast alone can enable us to appreciate things at their
> right value; and unless a judge compares notes and hears
> > both sides he can hardly come to a correct decision." H.P.
> Blavatsky. The Theosophist, July, 1881, p. 218.
> >
> >
> >
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Joseph P. Fulton
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 11:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Questions about ABailey group.
> >
> >
> > And in a coda to the last message, I'll have to stand up for
AAB
> in
> > the "non-political" realm. Typically, non-political refers to
> > staying out of partisan political matters, i.e. backing
> candidates or
> > specific political plans, by either providing monetary or
> volunteer
> > support directly to these political personages/movements.
> >
> > The TS (whatever tradition) organziations can come out
abstractly
> and
> > say that they "support" such and such a position (i.e.
opposition
> to
> > genetically engineered food products), however, unless they are
> found
> > to actively (as an organization) provide funding or volunteer
> > services then there is no issue.
> >
> > From that point of view, for the Lucis Trust, and others
> associated
> > with the work of AAB, the conflict is only apparent. Does
anyone
> > have any evidence of Lucis Trust or any AAB related
organization
> > actively participating in a partisan political role?
> >
> > A quick perusal of their IRS Form 990 for 2006 reveals nothing
> > reported out of line regarding "political" work. They have to
> reveal
> > that kind of stuff or their ~$1.2MM in assets become taxable
> pretty
> > quickly.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "christinaleestemaker"
> > <christinaleestemaker@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Because HPB wrote for other public and used too much history.
> > > Christina
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
> <global-
> > > theosophy@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Christina
> > > >
> > > > My views are:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Christina wrote:
> > > > "Than I think Alice A Bailey has different way in
teaching ,
> more
> > > to
> > > > the point."
> > > >
> > > > M. Sufilight:
> > > > May I politely ask: - In what manner do you find H. P.
> Blavatsky
> > > not being to the point compared with Alice A. Bailey?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > M. Sufilight
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: christinaleestemaker
> > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:14 PM
> > > > Subject: Theos-World Questions about ABailey group.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > They are political in this case : round 2000 they give all
> the
> > > books
> > > > free to download on internet and later in this millenium
> > totally
> > > not
> > > > one.
> > > > While Theosophical literature was not able on internet
during
> a
> > > lot
> > > > of years and now TS; especially America gives a lot for
free.
> > > > So who is better?
> > > > There can be made enough money on lectures, seminars and
> > > courses.And
> > > > not to forget people stay buying the books.Especially in
> > > > courses.Nobody goes with his laptop into course.
> > > > And I think it is very important to keep as much as books
of
> > > > references online too.
> > > > I have for example Collected writitng on CD, but easier if
I
> > need
> > > > some references to look at the internet version.Also it is
> good
> > > to
> > > > have the CD near it, for what now is on-line can be away
next
> > > year.
> > > >
> > > > Than I think Alice A Bailey has different way in teaching ,
> > more
> > > to
> > > > the point.Not whole stories round a subject,where people
need
> > to
> > > fly
> > > > over.
> > > > But that is my opinion and experiences.
> > > > Christina
> > > >
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
> > <global-
> > > > theosophy@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear friends
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > My vieus are:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Is the Alice A. Bailey groups and LUCIS TRUST really non-
> > > political?
> > > > > AND is this coinciding with H. P. Blavatsky's and H. S.
> > > Olcott's
> > > > teachings?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1.
> > > > > At the front page on the LUCIS TRUST hompage - The Alice
A.
> > > Bailey
> > > > groups main website if any we find that the claim to be a
non-
> > > > political group:
> > > > >
> > > > > LUCIS TRUST
> > > > > The worldwide activities of the Lucis Trust, founded by
> Alice
> > > and
> > > > Foster Bailey, are dedicated to establishing right human
> > > relations.
> > > > >
> > > > > The activities of the Lucis Trust promote the education
of
> > the
> > > > human mind towards recognition and practice of the
spiritual
> > > > principles and values upon which a stable and
interdependent
> > > world
> > > > society may be based. The Lucis Trust is non-political and
> non-
> > > > sectarian. It sponsors no special creed or dogma.
> > > > > http://www.lucistrust.org/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2.
> > > > > Seven years after the birth of the U.N., a book was
> published
> > > by
> > > > the theosophist and founder of the Lucis Trust, Alice
Bailey,
> > > > claiming that,
> > > > >
> > > > > "Evidence of the growth of the human intellect along the
> > needed
> > > > receptive lines [for the preparation of the New Age] can be
> > seen
> > > in
> > > > the "planning" of various nations and in the efforts of the
> > > United
> > > > Nations to formulate a world plan... From the very start of
> > this
> > > un-
> > > > foldment, three occult factors have governed the
development
> of
> > > all
> > > > these plans".
> > > > >
> > > > > [Alice B. Bailey, Discipleship in the New Age (Lucis
Press,
> > > > 1955), Vol.II, p.35.]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Although she did not spell out clearly the identity of
> these
> > > > 'three occult factors', she did reveal to her students that,
> > > > >
> > > > > "Within the United Nations is the germ and seed of a
great
> > > > international and meditating, reflective group - a group of
> > > thinking
> > > > and informed men and women in whose hands lies the destiny
of
> > > > humanity. This is largely under the control of many fourth
> ray
> > > > disciples, if you could but realize it, and their point of
> > > meditative
> > > > focus is the intuitional or buddhic plane - the plane upon
> > which
> > > all
> > > > hierarchical activity is today to be found".
> > > > >
> > > > > [Ibid., p.220.]
> > > > >
> > > > > To this end, the Lucis Trust (formerly known as the
Lucifer
> > > Trust),
> > > > under the leadership of Foster and Alice Bailey, started a
> > group
> > > > called 'World Goodwill' - an official Non-Governmental
> > > Organization
> > > > within the United Nations. The stated aim of this group is
> "to
> > > > cooperate in the world of preparation for the reappearance
of
> > the
> > > > Christ" [One Earth, the magazine of the Findhorn
Foundation,
> > > October/
> > > > November 1986, Vol. 6, Issue 6, p.24.]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > - - -
> > > > >
> > > > > Now, I would really like to know, what your answer is?
> > > > > If not, I ask why not?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > M. Sufilight
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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