Re: Theos-World Questions about ABailey group.
Dec 30, 2008 09:59 AM
by Morten Nymann Olesen
Dear Friends and Christina
My views are:
To answer who the "I" and "Me" is.
It is according to Alice A. Bailey - the one she called Master D.K. - She writes about it in the same book.
Try here "An Unfinished Autobiography", p. 245 or similar.
http://nimrodgroup.org/AAB/
- - -
A few comments to the quote...
1.
Christina replied to my previous e-mail and quoted:
"The
Theosophical Society had taught the fact of the [778] Masters, though
H. P. Blavatsky (in a communication to the Esoteric Section) stated
that she bitterly regretted so doing. "
M. Sufilight asks and comments:
Is this not a distorted view of the matter as it was given by H. P. Blavatsky?
If my memory serves me well I remmeber, that she said something about she was forced to do so because of for instance A. P. Sinnetts unfortunate writings about the Masters before she herself did anything of the sort publicly. Another issue is: Theosophical teachings operates alwyas in accordance with time, place, pupil, teacher, people and circumstances. It operates to create a spiritual impact - and the content is not always what people wants it to be.
My view is: The fact is, that the book "Initiation Human and Solar" made it alle much worse.
And Alice A. Bailey (D.K.) claims that it was D.K. who in fact "wrote a large part" of the Secret Doctrine given by H. P. Blavatsky. ("He it was who dictated a large part of that momentous book The Secret Doctrine, and who showed to H. P. Blavatsky many of the pictures, and gave her much of the data that is to be found in that book." - IHS, p. 58) - Mahatma Letters to Hubbe Schleiden says clearly the opposite - letters which HPB received facimiles of in 1886. (http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/invit-sd/invsd-4.htm - scroll down to the links in the bottom.)
- - -
Christina replied to my previous e-mail and quoted:
"They were made responsible for the mistakes of the leaders of the groups
who took refuge under such statements as: The Master has instructed
me to say, etc., the Master wants the following work to be done, or
the Master wants the membership to do thus and so. Those who obeyed
were regarded as good members; those who refused to be interested and
obedient were looked upon as renegades. The freedom of the individual
was constantly infringed and the weaknesses and ambitions of the
leaders were provided with an alibi. "
M. Sufilight asks and comments:
But...As far as I am concerned, this is exactly what a great number of Alice A. Bailey followers are guilty of themselves today. I have been barred from three forums discussing Alice A. Baileys teachings. There seems to be no willingness what so ever among Alice A. Bailey followers to compare the teachings by H. P. Blavatsky with their own favorite food the Alice A. Bailey books.
Theosophy was in its early days very commited to compartive studies. Today Alice A. Bailey groups throw this idea way down the drain, as far as I am aware. Maybe some can show me something else?
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: christinaleestemaker
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Questions about ABailey group.
SUMMARY OF THE TIBETAN'S WORK (1919-1943)
In 1919, during the month of November, I made a contact with Alice A.
Bailey and asked her to do some writing for me and also to undertake
the publishing of certain books which - under the sequential giving
out of truth - were due to appear. She refused immediately, having no
sympathy with the flood of so-called occult literature being passed
out to the public by the various occult groups, having no experience
in writing for the public, and having also a profound dislike of
every form of psychic writing and of psychic work. Later, she changed
her mind when I explained to her that telepathic rapport was a proven
thing and a matter of scientific interest, that she was neither
clairaudient or clairvoyant and never would be and that (above all)
the test of truth was the truth itself. I told her that if she would
write for a period of a month, the material transcribed would prove
to her whether it contained truth, whether it evoked intuitive
understanding and recognition and whether it had in it that which
might be of value in the new spiritual era which was impending. She,
therefore, overcame her disgust of this type of work and of the many
occult presentations of truth which were prevalent; she only
stipulated that the writing should go out with no claims whatsoever
and that the teachings should stand or fall on their own merits.
The first book published was Initiation, Human and Solar. This was
the result of her first effort to do this kind of work; it laid the
foundation of all the succeeding books. Since then she has written
for me for nearly twenty-five years. The books have gone out in line
with a deep, underlying purpose which it may interest you to know
about and they have received a worldwide recognition.
Initiation, Human and Solar was intended to bring the fact of the
Hierarchy to public attention. This had been done by H. P. B. by
inference and statement but not in any sequential form. The
Theosophical Society had taught the fact of the [778] Masters, though
H. P. Blavatsky (in a communication to the Esoteric Section) stated
that she bitterly regretted so doing. This teaching was
misinterpreted by later theosophical leaders and they made certain
basic mistakes. The Masters whom they portrayed were characterized by
an impossible infallibility, because the Masters are themselves
evolving; the teaching given endorsed an engrossing interest in self-
development and an intense focusing upon personal unfoldment and
liberation; the people who were indicated as initiates and senior
disciples were entirely mediocre with no influence outside the
Theosophical Society itself; complete devotion to the Masters was
also emphasized - devotion to their personalities. These Masters were
also shown as interfering with the organization life of the various
occult groups which claimed to be working under their direction. They
were made responsible for the mistakes of the leaders of the groups
who took refuge under such statements as: The Master has instructed
me to say, etc., the Master wants the following work to be done, or
the Master wants the membership to do thus and so. Those who obeyed
were regarded as good members; those who refused to be interested and
obedient were looked upon as renegades. The freedom of the individual
was constantly infringed and the weaknesses and ambitions of the
leaders were provided with an alibi. Knowing all this well, A. A. B.
refused to be a party to any such constantly recurring activity, for
such is the history of practically all the known occult groups which
attract the attention of the public. Even had I wanted to work in
such a way (which no one affiliated with the Hierarchy ever does), I
would have found no collaboration from her.
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-
theosophy@...> wrote:
>
> Dear friends and Joseph
>
> My views are:
>
> Jospeh asked:
> "From that point of view, for the Lucis Trust, and others
associated
> with the work of AAB, the conflict is only apparent. Does anyone
> have any evidence of Lucis Trust or any AAB related organization
> actively participating in a partisan political role?"
>
>
> M. Sufilight says:
> I will seek to give you an answer, which later can be expanded upon.
> I will tell you that I - because of certain circumstances - some
ten years ago were a member of an Alice A. Bailey group, and that I
am today banned from some of the Alice A. Bailey forums, perhaps
because they do not like me to question the validity of their agendas
when compared with H. P. Blavatskys teachings.
>
>
>
>
> >>> Alice A. Bailey wrote the following very political words: <<<
>
>
> "For the first time in human history, the lines of demarcation
between that which is right from the angle of the spiritual values
(the essential freedom of the human spirit) and that which is wrong
(the imprisonment of the human spirit by materialistic conditions)
are clearly perceived by the majority of the nations of the planet.
Within the United Nations is the germ and the seed of a great
international and meditating, reflective group - a group of thinking
and informed men and women in whose hands lies the destiny of
humanity. This is largely under the control of many fourth ray
disciples, if you could but realize it, and their point of meditative
focus is the intuitional or buddhic plane - the plane upon which all
hierarchical activity is today to be found."
> [Alice B. Bailey, Discipleship in the New Age (Lucis Press, 1955),
Vol.II, p.220.]
> http://nimrodgroup.org/AAB/
>
>
>
> We know of the following links and fact about Lucis Trust and its
affiliated New Group of World Servers - and World Goodwill and
Triangles.
>
> 1. Lucis Trust worldwide: http://www.lucistrust.org/en/
service_activities/worldwide_network
> 2. Lucis Trust - About God's plan, HIS plan - 10 min. Video.
> http://www.lucistrust.org/en/productions/programs_on_youtube
>
> 3. Maybe Lucis Trust as an organisation are not directly involved
with political issues.
> But the fact is that a great number og affiliated groups are so
involved. I guess partly due to the unclear position given by Lucis
Trust on hoiw it relates to politics - through Alice A. Baileys
books. And the unclear communication in the Alice A. Bailey books on
whether the focus on politics autght to change or not, when compared
to H. P. Blavatsky- TS - and the original stance stance rejection of
politics and political involvement.
>
> Her are a number og heavily politically realated groups:
>
> A. - The New Group of World Servers - with hundreds of affiliated
groups - some political!
> http://www.ngws.org/service/Groups1.htm
> Their Newsletter praising The United Nations - http://www.ngws.org/
service/newsletter.htm
>
> B. - Manitou Foundation - afiliated with high level politician
MAURICE STRONG and wife.
> Maurice Strong was a counsler within the UN Security Counsil and a
long time employee within UN. - http://www.manitou.org/MI/mhcp.php
> or http://home.sprynet.com/~eastwood01/mstrong.htm
>
> C. - The Institute for Planetary Synthesis --- Rooster status
within UN.
> http://www.ipsgeneva.com/angl/aonu.html
>
> D. - World Goodwill - a part of LUCIS TRUST - "The work of World
Goodwill is based on the principles of brotherhood, human unity,
sharing and cooperation; and on the fundamental rights and freedoms
embodied in the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
World Goodwill is a world service organisation practising the
principle of non-discrimination in race, religion, ideology, and
political and economic convictions. "
>
> "World Goodwill is an accredited non-governmental organisation with
the Department of Public Information of the United Nations. It
maintains informal relations with certain of the Specialised Agencies
and with a wide range of national and international non-governmental
organisations. World Goodwill is an activity of the Lucis Trust,
which is on the Roster of the United Nations Economic and Social
Council. "
> http://www.WorldGoodwill.org
>
> Yet - World Goodwill is an organization that claims to be preparing
the way for a one-world religion and a one-world government. It
maintains headquarters in the cities of New York, London and Geneva.
The group publishes literature as well as conducts symposiums related
to its goals, which are consistent with those of Lucis Trust. Much of
its public literature shows no signs of its occultic background
nature, making it the perfect vehicle for attracting into its New Age
influence people who would reject overtly religious or occult
philosophy.
>
>
> - - -
>
>
> So, if you ask me, Alice A. Bailey and Lucis Trust really have a
whole lot to do with spreading political activities within the United
Nations, while they await their world Saviour, whom they most often
announce by calling Christian names like Christ and HE, to walk about
in the flesh.
>
> And becasue of the content of the Alice A. Bailey books I would
challenge any honest Alice A. Bailey supporter to tell me that Lucis
Trust are not WAY TOO MUCH accepting all these political AAB groups
activties without protesting. And that they accept it - to such an
degree, that they find themselves to be a - farce - when they claim
to be non-political!
>
> I find it high time, that Lucis Trust became much more honest and
compassionate about its real attutide towards political activities
and how far it is willing to become affiliated with the United
Nations - and its to me - very non-esoterical Security Counsil! - And
also their deep-freeze attitudes towards The Middle East.
>
> - I have never received an clear answer to these issue. Everytime I
ask any Alice A. Bailey supporter, they keep their mouths totally
shut. - I end up getting the feeling that they are not honest about
their mission.
>
> Is any Alice A. Bailey supporter able to help me out?
>
> ---
>
>
> H.P. Blavatsky said:
> "...Contrast alone can enable us to appreciate things at their
right value; and unless a judge compares notes and hears
> both sides he can hardly come to a correct decision." H.P.
Blavatsky. The Theosophist, July, 1881, p. 218.
>
>
>
> M. Sufilight
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joseph P. Fulton
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 11:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Questions about ABailey group.
>
>
> And in a coda to the last message, I'll have to stand up for AAB
in
> the "non-political" realm. Typically, non-political refers to
> staying out of partisan political matters, i.e. backing
candidates or
> specific political plans, by either providing monetary or
volunteer
> support directly to these political personages/movements.
>
> The TS (whatever tradition) organziations can come out abstractly
and
> say that they "support" such and such a position (i.e. opposition
to
> genetically engineered food products), however, unless they are
found
> to actively (as an organization) provide funding or volunteer
> services then there is no issue.
>
> From that point of view, for the Lucis Trust, and others
associated
> with the work of AAB, the conflict is only apparent. Does anyone
> have any evidence of Lucis Trust or any AAB related organization
> actively participating in a partisan political role?
>
> A quick perusal of their IRS Form 990 for 2006 reveals nothing
> reported out of line regarding "political" work. They have to
reveal
> that kind of stuff or their ~$1.2MM in assets become taxable
pretty
> quickly.
>
> Joe
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "christinaleestemaker"
> <christinaleestemaker@> wrote:
> >
> > Because HPB wrote for other public and used too much history.
> > Christina
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
<global-
> > theosophy@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Christina
> > >
> > > My views are:
> > >
> > >
> > > Christina wrote:
> > > "Than I think Alice A Bailey has different way in teaching ,
more
> > to
> > > the point."
> > >
> > > M. Sufilight:
> > > May I politely ask: - In what manner do you find H. P.
Blavatsky
> > not being to the point compared with Alice A. Bailey?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > M. Sufilight
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: christinaleestemaker
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:14 PM
> > > Subject: Theos-World Questions about ABailey group.
> > >
> > >
> > > They are political in this case : round 2000 they give all
the
> > books
> > > free to download on internet and later in this millenium
> totally
> > not
> > > one.
> > > While Theosophical literature was not able on internet during
a
> > lot
> > > of years and now TS; especially America gives a lot for free.
> > > So who is better?
> > > There can be made enough money on lectures, seminars and
> > courses.And
> > > not to forget people stay buying the books.Especially in
> > > courses.Nobody goes with his laptop into course.
> > > And I think it is very important to keep as much as books of
> > > references online too.
> > > I have for example Collected writitng on CD, but easier if I
> need
> > > some references to look at the internet version.Also it is
good
> > to
> > > have the CD near it, for what now is on-line can be away next
> > year.
> > >
> > > Than I think Alice A Bailey has different way in teaching ,
> more
> > to
> > > the point.Not whole stories round a subject,where people need
> to
> > fly
> > > over.
> > > But that is my opinion and experiences.
> > > Christina
> > >
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
> <global-
> > > theosophy@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear friends
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My vieus are:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Is the Alice A. Bailey groups and LUCIS TRUST really non-
> > political?
> > > > AND is this coinciding with H. P. Blavatsky's and H. S.
> > Olcott's
> > > teachings?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1.
> > > > At the front page on the LUCIS TRUST hompage - The Alice A.
> > Bailey
> > > groups main website if any we find that the claim to be a non-
> > > political group:
> > > >
> > > > LUCIS TRUST
> > > > The worldwide activities of the Lucis Trust, founded by
Alice
> > and
> > > Foster Bailey, are dedicated to establishing right human
> > relations.
> > > >
> > > > The activities of the Lucis Trust promote the education of
> the
> > > human mind towards recognition and practice of the spiritual
> > > principles and values upon which a stable and interdependent
> > world
> > > society may be based. The Lucis Trust is non-political and
non-
> > > sectarian. It sponsors no special creed or dogma.
> > > > http://www.lucistrust.org/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2.
> > > > Seven years after the birth of the U.N., a book was
published
> > by
> > > the theosophist and founder of the Lucis Trust, Alice Bailey,
> > > claiming that,
> > > >
> > > > "Evidence of the growth of the human intellect along the
> needed
> > > receptive lines [for the preparation of the New Age] can be
> seen
> > in
> > > the "planning" of various nations and in the efforts of the
> > United
> > > Nations to formulate a world plan... From the very start of
> this
> > un-
> > > foldment, three occult factors have governed the development
of
> > all
> > > these plans".
> > > >
> > > > [Alice B. Bailey, Discipleship in the New Age (Lucis Press,
> > > 1955), Vol.II, p.35.]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Although she did not spell out clearly the identity of
these
> > > 'three occult factors', she did reveal to her students that,
> > > >
> > > > "Within the United Nations is the germ and seed of a great
> > > international and meditating, reflective group - a group of
> > thinking
> > > and informed men and women in whose hands lies the destiny of
> > > humanity. This is largely under the control of many fourth
ray
> > > disciples, if you could but realize it, and their point of
> > meditative
> > > focus is the intuitional or buddhic plane - the plane upon
> which
> > all
> > > hierarchical activity is today to be found".
> > > >
> > > > [Ibid., p.220.]
> > > >
> > > > To this end, the Lucis Trust (formerly known as the Lucifer
> > Trust),
> > > under the leadership of Foster and Alice Bailey, started a
> group
> > > called 'World Goodwill' - an official Non-Governmental
> > Organization
> > > within the United Nations. The stated aim of this group is
"to
> > > cooperate in the world of preparation for the reappearance of
> the
> > > Christ" [One Earth, the magazine of the Findhorn Foundation,
> > October/
> > > November 1986, Vol. 6, Issue 6, p.24.]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - - -
> > > >
> > > > Now, I would really like to know, what your answer is?
> > > > If not, I ask why not?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > M. Sufilight
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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