Re: Theos-World Questions about ABailey group.
Dec 30, 2008 09:35 AM
by christinaleestemaker
Maybe stupid but here I ask myself who's is the I and Me in this
summary?
Did Djwahl Kuhl asked A.A.Baily???
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "christinaleestemaker"
<christinaleestemaker@...> wrote:
>
> SUMMARY OF THE TIBETAN'S WORK (1919-1943)
> In 1919, during the month of November, I made a contact with Alice
A.
> Bailey and asked her to do some writing for me and also to
undertake
> the publishing of certain books which - under the sequential giving
> out of truth - were due to appear. She refused immediately, having
no
> sympathy with the flood of so-called occult literature being passed
> out to the public by the various occult groups, having no
experience
> in writing for the public, and having also a profound dislike of
> every form of psychic writing and of psychic work. Later, she
changed
> her mind when I explained to her that telepathic rapport was a
proven
> thing and a matter of scientific interest, that she was neither
> clairaudient or clairvoyant and never would be and that (above all)
> the test of truth was the truth itself. I told her that if she
would
> write for a period of a month, the material transcribed would prove
> to her whether it contained truth, whether it evoked intuitive
> understanding and recognition and whether it had in it that which
> might be of value in the new spiritual era which was impending.
She,
> therefore, overcame her disgust of this type of work and of the
many
> occult presentations of truth which were prevalent; she only
> stipulated that the writing should go out with no claims whatsoever
> and that the teachings should stand or fall on their own merits.
> The first book published was Initiation, Human and Solar. This was
> the result of her first effort to do this kind of work; it laid the
> foundation of all the succeeding books. Since then she has written
> for me for nearly twenty-five years. The books have gone out in
line
> with a deep, underlying purpose which it may interest you to know
> about and they have received a worldwide recognition.
> Initiation, Human and Solar was intended to bring the fact of the
> Hierarchy to public attention. This had been done by H. P. B. by
> inference and statement but not in any sequential form. The
> Theosophical Society had taught the fact of the [778] Masters,
though
> H. P. Blavatsky (in a communication to the Esoteric Section) stated
> that she bitterly regretted so doing. This teaching was
> misinterpreted by later theosophical leaders and they made certain
> basic mistakes. The Masters whom they portrayed were characterized
by
> an impossible infallibility, because the Masters are themselves
> evolving; the teaching given endorsed an engrossing interest in
self-
> development and an intense focusing upon personal unfoldment and
> liberation; the people who were indicated as initiates and senior
> disciples were entirely mediocre with no influence outside the
> Theosophical Society itself; complete devotion to the Masters was
> also emphasized - devotion to their personalities. These Masters
were
> also shown as interfering with the organization life of the various
> occult groups which claimed to be working under their direction.
They
> were made responsible for the mistakes of the leaders of the groups
> who took refuge under such statements as: The Master has instructed
> me to say, etc., the Master wants the following work to be done, or
> the Master wants the membership to do thus and so. Those who obeyed
> were regarded as good members; those who refused to be interested
and
> obedient were looked upon as renegades. The freedom of the
individual
> was constantly infringed and the weaknesses and ambitions of the
> leaders were provided with an alibi. Knowing all this well, A. A.
B.
> refused to be a party to any such constantly recurring activity,
for
> such is the history of practically all the known occult groups
which
> attract the attention of the public. Even had I wanted to work in
> such a way (which no one affiliated with the Hierarchy ever does),
I
> would have found no collaboration from her.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-
> theosophy@> wrote:
> >
> > Dear friends and Joseph
> >
> > My views are:
> >
> > Jospeh asked:
> > "From that point of view, for the Lucis Trust, and others
> associated
> > with the work of AAB, the conflict is only apparent. Does anyone
> > have any evidence of Lucis Trust or any AAB related organization
> > actively participating in a partisan political role?"
> >
> >
> > M. Sufilight says:
> > I will seek to give you an answer, which later can be expanded
upon.
> > I will tell you that I - because of certain circumstances - some
> ten years ago were a member of an Alice A. Bailey group, and that I
> am today banned from some of the Alice A. Bailey forums, perhaps
> because they do not like me to question the validity of their
agendas
> when compared with H. P. Blavatskys teachings.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >>> Alice A. Bailey wrote the following very political words: <<<
> >
> >
> > "For the first time in human history, the lines of demarcation
> between that which is right from the angle of the spiritual values
> (the essential freedom of the human spirit) and that which is wrong
> (the imprisonment of the human spirit by materialistic conditions)
> are clearly perceived by the majority of the nations of the planet.
> Within the United Nations is the germ and the seed of a great
> international and meditating, reflective group - a group of
thinking
> and informed men and women in whose hands lies the destiny of
> humanity. This is largely under the control of many fourth ray
> disciples, if you could but realize it, and their point of
meditative
> focus is the intuitional or buddhic plane - the plane upon which
all
> hierarchical activity is today to be found."
> > [Alice B. Bailey, Discipleship in the New Age (Lucis Press,
1955),
> Vol.II, p.220.]
> > http://nimrodgroup.org/AAB/
> >
> >
> >
> > We know of the following links and fact about Lucis Trust and its
> affiliated New Group of World Servers - and World Goodwill and
> Triangles.
> >
> > 1. Lucis Trust worldwide: http://www.lucistrust.org/en/
> service_activities/worldwide_network
> > 2. Lucis Trust - About God's plan, HIS plan - 10 min. Video.
> > http://www.lucistrust.org/en/productions/programs_on_youtube
> >
> > 3. Maybe Lucis Trust as an organisation are not directly involved
> with political issues.
> > But the fact is that a great number og affiliated groups are so
> involved. I guess partly due to the unclear position given by Lucis
> Trust on hoiw it relates to politics - through Alice A. Baileys
> books. And the unclear communication in the Alice A. Bailey books
on
> whether the focus on politics autght to change or not, when
compared
> to H. P. Blavatsky- TS - and the original stance stance rejection
of
> politics and political involvement.
> >
> > Her are a number og heavily politically realated groups:
> >
> > A. - The New Group of World Servers - with hundreds of affiliated
> groups - some political!
> > http://www.ngws.org/service/Groups1.htm
> > Their Newsletter praising The United Nations - http://
www.ngws.org/
> service/newsletter.htm
> >
> > B. - Manitou Foundation - afiliated with high level politician
> MAURICE STRONG and wife.
> > Maurice Strong was a counsler within the UN Security Counsil and
a
> long time employee within UN. - http://www.manitou.org/MI/mhcp.php
> > or http://home.sprynet.com/~eastwood01/mstrong.htm
> >
> > C. - The Institute for Planetary Synthesis --- Rooster status
> within UN.
> > http://www.ipsgeneva.com/angl/aonu.html
> >
> > D. - World Goodwill - a part of LUCIS TRUST - "The work of World
> Goodwill is based on the principles of brotherhood, human unity,
> sharing and cooperation; and on the fundamental rights and freedoms
> embodied in the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human
Rights.
> World Goodwill is a world service organisation practising the
> principle of non-discrimination in race, religion, ideology, and
> political and economic convictions. "
> >
> > "World Goodwill is an accredited non-governmental organisation
with
> the Department of Public Information of the United Nations. It
> maintains informal relations with certain of the Specialised
Agencies
> and with a wide range of national and international non-
governmental
> organisations. World Goodwill is an activity of the Lucis Trust,
> which is on the Roster of the United Nations Economic and Social
> Council. "
> > http://www.WorldGoodwill.org
> >
> > Yet - World Goodwill is an organization that claims to be
preparing
> the way for a one-world religion and a one-world government. It
> maintains headquarters in the cities of New York, London and
Geneva.
> The group publishes literature as well as conducts symposiums
related
> to its goals, which are consistent with those of Lucis Trust. Much
of
> its public literature shows no signs of its occultic background
> nature, making it the perfect vehicle for attracting into its New
Age
> influence people who would reject overtly religious or occult
> philosophy.
> >
> >
> > - - -
> >
> >
> > So, if you ask me, Alice A. Bailey and Lucis Trust really have a
> whole lot to do with spreading political activities within the
United
> Nations, while they await their world Saviour, whom they most often
> announce by calling Christian names like Christ and HE, to walk
about
> in the flesh.
> >
> > And becasue of the content of the Alice A. Bailey books I would
> challenge any honest Alice A. Bailey supporter to tell me that
Lucis
> Trust are not WAY TOO MUCH accepting all these political AAB groups
> activties without protesting. And that they accept it - to such an
> degree, that they find themselves to be a - farce - when they claim
> to be non-political!
> >
> > I find it high time, that Lucis Trust became much more honest and
> compassionate about its real attutide towards political activities
> and how far it is willing to become affiliated with the United
> Nations - and its to me - very non-esoterical Security Counsil! -
And
> also their deep-freeze attitudes towards The Middle East.
> >
> > - I have never received an clear answer to these issue. Everytime
I
> ask any Alice A. Bailey supporter, they keep their mouths totally
> shut. - I end up getting the feeling that they are not honest about
> their mission.
> >
> > Is any Alice A. Bailey supporter able to help me out?
> >
> > ---
> >
> >
> > H.P. Blavatsky said:
> > "...Contrast alone can enable us to appreciate things at their
> right value; and unless a judge compares notes and hears
> > both sides he can hardly come to a correct decision." H.P.
> Blavatsky. The Theosophist, July, 1881, p. 218.
> >
> >
> >
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Joseph P. Fulton
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 11:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Questions about ABailey group.
> >
> >
> > And in a coda to the last message, I'll have to stand up for
AAB
> in
> > the "non-political" realm. Typically, non-political refers to
> > staying out of partisan political matters, i.e. backing
> candidates or
> > specific political plans, by either providing monetary or
> volunteer
> > support directly to these political personages/movements.
> >
> > The TS (whatever tradition) organziations can come out
abstractly
> and
> > say that they "support" such and such a position (i.e.
opposition
> to
> > genetically engineered food products), however, unless they are
> found
> > to actively (as an organization) provide funding or volunteer
> > services then there is no issue.
> >
> > From that point of view, for the Lucis Trust, and others
> associated
> > with the work of AAB, the conflict is only apparent. Does
anyone
> > have any evidence of Lucis Trust or any AAB related
organization
> > actively participating in a partisan political role?
> >
> > A quick perusal of their IRS Form 990 for 2006 reveals nothing
> > reported out of line regarding "political" work. They have to
> reveal
> > that kind of stuff or their ~$1.2MM in assets become taxable
> pretty
> > quickly.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "christinaleestemaker"
> > <christinaleestemaker@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Because HPB wrote for other public and used too much history.
> > > Christina
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
> <global-
> > > theosophy@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Christina
> > > >
> > > > My views are:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Christina wrote:
> > > > "Than I think Alice A Bailey has different way in
teaching ,
> more
> > > to
> > > > the point."
> > > >
> > > > M. Sufilight:
> > > > May I politely ask: - In what manner do you find H. P.
> Blavatsky
> > > not being to the point compared with Alice A. Bailey?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > M. Sufilight
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: christinaleestemaker
> > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:14 PM
> > > > Subject: Theos-World Questions about ABailey group.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > They are political in this case : round 2000 they give all
> the
> > > books
> > > > free to download on internet and later in this millenium
> > totally
> > > not
> > > > one.
> > > > While Theosophical literature was not able on internet
during
> a
> > > lot
> > > > of years and now TS; especially America gives a lot for
free.
> > > > So who is better?
> > > > There can be made enough money on lectures, seminars and
> > > courses.And
> > > > not to forget people stay buying the books.Especially in
> > > > courses.Nobody goes with his laptop into course.
> > > > And I think it is very important to keep as much as books
of
> > > > references online too.
> > > > I have for example Collected writitng on CD, but easier if
I
> > need
> > > > some references to look at the internet version.Also it is
> good
> > > to
> > > > have the CD near it, for what now is on-line can be away
next
> > > year.
> > > >
> > > > Than I think Alice A Bailey has different way in teaching ,
> > more
> > > to
> > > > the point.Not whole stories round a subject,where people
need
> > to
> > > fly
> > > > over.
> > > > But that is my opinion and experiences.
> > > > Christina
> > > >
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
> > <global-
> > > > theosophy@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear friends
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > My vieus are:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Is the Alice A. Bailey groups and LUCIS TRUST really non-
> > > political?
> > > > > AND is this coinciding with H. P. Blavatsky's and H. S.
> > > Olcott's
> > > > teachings?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1.
> > > > > At the front page on the LUCIS TRUST hompage - The Alice
A.
> > > Bailey
> > > > groups main website if any we find that the claim to be a
non-
> > > > political group:
> > > > >
> > > > > LUCIS TRUST
> > > > > The worldwide activities of the Lucis Trust, founded by
> Alice
> > > and
> > > > Foster Bailey, are dedicated to establishing right human
> > > relations.
> > > > >
> > > > > The activities of the Lucis Trust promote the education
of
> > the
> > > > human mind towards recognition and practice of the
spiritual
> > > > principles and values upon which a stable and
interdependent
> > > world
> > > > society may be based. The Lucis Trust is non-political and
> non-
> > > > sectarian. It sponsors no special creed or dogma.
> > > > > http://www.lucistrust.org/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2.
> > > > > Seven years after the birth of the U.N., a book was
> published
> > > by
> > > > the theosophist and founder of the Lucis Trust, Alice
Bailey,
> > > > claiming that,
> > > > >
> > > > > "Evidence of the growth of the human intellect along the
> > needed
> > > > receptive lines [for the preparation of the New Age] can be
> > seen
> > > in
> > > > the "planning" of various nations and in the efforts of the
> > > United
> > > > Nations to formulate a world plan... From the very start of
> > this
> > > un-
> > > > foldment, three occult factors have governed the
development
> of
> > > all
> > > > these plans".
> > > > >
> > > > > [Alice B. Bailey, Discipleship in the New Age (Lucis
Press,
> > > > 1955), Vol.II, p.35.]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Although she did not spell out clearly the identity of
> these
> > > > 'three occult factors', she did reveal to her students that,
> > > > >
> > > > > "Within the United Nations is the germ and seed of a
great
> > > > international and meditating, reflective group - a group of
> > > thinking
> > > > and informed men and women in whose hands lies the destiny
of
> > > > humanity. This is largely under the control of many fourth
> ray
> > > > disciples, if you could but realize it, and their point of
> > > meditative
> > > > focus is the intuitional or buddhic plane - the plane upon
> > which
> > > all
> > > > hierarchical activity is today to be found".
> > > > >
> > > > > [Ibid., p.220.]
> > > > >
> > > > > To this end, the Lucis Trust (formerly known as the
Lucifer
> > > Trust),
> > > > under the leadership of Foster and Alice Bailey, started a
> > group
> > > > called 'World Goodwill' - an official Non-Governmental
> > > Organization
> > > > within the United Nations. The stated aim of this group is
> "to
> > > > cooperate in the world of preparation for the reappearance
of
> > the
> > > > Christ" [One Earth, the magazine of the Findhorn
Foundation,
> > > October/
> > > > November 1986, Vol. 6, Issue 6, p.24.]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > - - -
> > > > >
> > > > > Now, I would really like to know, what your answer is?
> > > > > If not, I ask why not?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > M. Sufilight
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
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