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Re: Theos-World The real Jesus

Dec 21, 2008 01:37 PM
by Augoeides-222


Christina,
    Thanks for all your research efforts! But this thread may have opened Pandora's Box! 
     Who in this Forum has read the complete "Ante-Nicene Christian Library of the Writings of the Early Church Fathers", 1867 (down to A.D. 325) ??? I my self haven't but have waded more than a lot of  everyday non-eclessiastical normal people of common ground. They do contain a huge mountain of literature as G. R. S. Mead will testify were he here lol! Beleive me, put on your deep wading boots. But Clement, Origen, Tertillian, Hippolytus, Irenaeus, Anastasius, Justin Martyr, Athenagoras are all very heavy voluminous reading which contain marvelous facts and bedeviling controversy's.

   This is going to become an explosion lol!

Regards,
John
PS: I might recommend reading:
"The Diegesis --- being  A Discovery of the Origin, Evidences, And Early History Of CHRISTIANITY " by the Rev. Robert Taylor A. B. & M. R. C. S., 1851

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "christinaleestemaker" <christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com> 
***http://www.gnmagazine.org/realstory/?
S=2&gclid=CJ_wptmD0pcCFcse3godVTQwCw

http://www.realtruth.org/wtc_005_081128.html?s_kwcid=ContentNetwork|
2848602587&gclid=CJ7mmp6E0pcCFcse3godVTQwCw

***This has been showed on the pages from Colleted Writing posted by 
Google.

Here I copied the pages from Collected writings on which they give me 
the idea there was another Jesus, not the Nazareër.
HPB mentioned that that one was living a century before the Nazareër 
and was cruzified on a tree.
The Nazareër was born 120 years BC.
Christina

Blavatsky Collected Writings, Volume 6 Page 238

FOOTNOTES TO"UNPUBLISHED WRITINGS OF ÉLIPHAS LÉVI"

[Journal of The Theosophical Society, Madras, Vol. I, No. 6,
June, 1884, pp. 82-83]

[To her own translation from the original French of Lecture Five in 
this Series, H. P. B. appends the following two footnotes:]

According to the statement of Llorente (see American Encyclopaedia)* 
from 1481 to 1808 there were burnt alive 31,912 persons; burned in 
effigy 17,659, tortured and imprisoned 291,456. All that in the name 
of "Jesus Christ" and by the supreme authority of the Pope, who 
appointed the "apostolic" judges of the inquisition. This is not 
"attacking Christianity," but simply stating historic facts.

??????????

Éliphas Lévi being a Catholic, still cherishes the idea that the Pope 
of Rome is really the successor of Peter, who was made Bishop of Rome 
by Jesus Christ. If it is admitted that Peter really was the first 
Pope, then it follows logically that the "Roman Catholic" church is 
really the only Christian church that has any legitimate existence, 
and all the so-called protestant churches are only so many heresies 
that ought to be rooted out; but biblical criticism has shown that 
Peter had nothing whatever to do with the foundation of the Latin 
church. "Petroma" was the name of the double set of stone tablets 
used by the hierophant at all initiations during the final Mystery; 
and the designation "Peter" (in Phoenician and Chaldaic, an 
interpreter) appears to have been the title of this person. The 
majority of critics show that the "apostle" Peter never was in Rome,?
and besides it is almost certain that the real "Jesus" of the 
gospels, whose name was "Jehoshua, the Nazarene," lived a hundred 
years before the Christian era.
??????????
* [H. P. B. has reference to the Encyclopaedia Americana. Edited by 
Francis Lieber, assisted by E. Wigglesworth. Philadelphia: Carey, Lea 
& Carey, 1829-33; also 1838,1848,1849. Article on "Inquisition," p. 
33, where Llorente is referred to.??Compiler.]
??????????

in CW 8 pages THE ESOTERIC CHARACTER OF THE GOSPELS

page 189
Sephr Toldoth Jeshu, about Jesus being the son of one named Pandira, 
and having lived -a century earlier- than the era called Christian, 
namely, during the reign of the Jewish king Alexander Jannaeus and 
his wife Salome, who reigned from the year 106 to 79 B.C. Accused by 
the Jews of having learned the magic art in Egypt, and of having 
stolen from the Holy of Holies the Incommunicable Name, Jehoshua 
(Jesus) was put to death by the Sanhedrin at Lüd. He was stoned and 
then crucified on a tree, on the eve of Passover. The narrative is 
ascribed to the Talmudistic authors of Sotah and Sanhedrin, p. 19, 
Book of Jechiel. See Isis Unveiled, II, 201; Arnobius [Adv. Gentes, 
I, 43]; 24 Éliphas Lévi's La Science des Esprits [pp. 23-40], and 
"The Historical Jesus and Mythical Christ," a lecture by G. Massey.

Having drawn to Madame Blavatsky's attention that, according to 
certain scholars, this assertion is erroneous, she answered as 
follows: "I say the scholars are either lying or talking nonsense. 
Our Masters affirm the statement. If the story of Jehoshua or Jesus 
Ben-Pandira is false, then the whole Talmud, the whole Jewish Canon 
is false. He was the disciple of Jehoshua Ben Perahiah, the fifth 
President of the Sanhedrin after Ezra who re-wrote the Bible. 
Compromised in the revolt of the Pharisees against Jannaeus in 105 
B.C., he fled into Egypt carrying the young Jesus with him. This 
account is far truer than that of the New Testament which has no 
record in history."
[Reference is here made to the tradition preserved in the Gemara of 
the Babylonian Talmud, namely in the treatises known as Sotah (chap. 
ix, 47a) and Sanhedrin (chap. xi, 107b). Consult in this connection 
H. P. B.'s article, "A Word with the Theosophists" (The Theosophist, 
Vol. IV, March 1883, pp. 143-145; re-published in Vol. IV, of the 
present Series); a footnote embodied in the 2nd installment of her 
essay, "The Esoteric Character of the

CW IX Page 204

fondée, ainsi que je l'ai démontré à diverses reprises dans mes 
écrits et dans mes notes, sur l'existence d'un personnage nommé 
Jehoshua (dont on a fait Jésus), né à Lüd ou Lydda vers l'an 120 
avant l'ère moderne. Et si l'on contredit ce fait?ce à quoi je ne 
m'oppose guère?il faudra en prendre son parti et regarder le héros du 
drame du Calvaire comme un mythe pur et simple. En effet, malgré 
toutes les recherches désespérées faites pendant de longs siècles, si 
on laisse de côté le témoignage des «Evangélistes», c'est-à-dire 
d'hommes inconnus dont l'identité ne fut jamais établie, et celle des 
Pères de l'Église, fanatiques intéressés, ni l'historre, ni la 
tradition profane, ni les documents officiels, ni les contemporains 
du soidisant drame, n'ont pu fournir une seule preuve sérieuse de 
l'existence réelle et historique, non seulement de l'Homme-Dieu mais 
même du nommé Jésus de Nazareth, depuis l'an 1 jusqu'à l'année 33. 
Tout est ténèbre et silence. Philon de Judée, né avant l'ère 
chrétienne et mort longtemps après l'année où, d'après Renan, 
l'hallucination d'une hystérique, Marie de Magdala, donne un Dieu au 
monde, Philon fit dans cet intervalle de quarante et quelques années 
plusieurs voyages à Jérusalem. n y alla pour écrire l'histoire des 
sectes religieuses de la Palestine à son époque. Il n'est pas 
d'écrivain plus correct dans ses recits, plus soucieux de ne rien 
omettre: aucune communauté, aucune fraternité, fût-elle la plus 
insignifiante, ne lui échappe. Pourquoi donc ne parle-t-il pas des 
Nazaréens? Pourquoi ne fait-il pas la plus lointaine allusion aux 
Apôtres, au Galiléen divin, à la Crucification? La réponse est 
facile. Parce que la biographie de Jésus fut inventée après le 
premier siècle et que personne, à Jérusalem n'était plus renseigné 
que Philon sur ce sujet. On n'a qu'a lire la querelle d'Irénée avec 
les gnostiques, au IIe siècle, pour s'en assurer. Ptolémée (l'an 180) 
ayant fait remarquer que Jésus ne prêcha qu'un an au dire de la 
légende, et qu'il était trop jeune pour avoir pu enseigner quelque 
chose d'important, Irénée a un bel accès d'indignation et certifie 
que Jésus prêcha plus de dix et même de vingt ans! La tradition 
seule, dit-il, parle de dix ans (lib. II, c.22, pp.4, 5). Ailleurs, 
il fait mourir Jésus âgé de plus de 
Page 205

cinquante ans!! Or, si déjà en l'année 180 un père de l'Église a 
recours à la tradition et que personne n'était sûr de rien et qu'on 
ne faisait pas grand cas des Évangiles ?des Logia dont il y avait 
plus de soixante,?qu'a à faire l'histoire dans tout ceci? Confusion, 
mensonges, fourberies et faux, voilà le bilan des premiers siècles. 
Eusèbe de Césarée, le roi des falsificateurs, insère les fameuses 16 
lignes touchant Jésus, dans un manuscrit de Josèphe, pour donner le 
change aux gnostiques qui niaient qu'il y eût jamais eu un personnage 
réel du nom de Jésus.* Plus encore: il attribue à Josèphe, un 
fanatique mort comme il avait vécu, en Juif obstiné, la réflexion 
qu'il n'est peut-être pas juste de l'appe]er (lui, Iasous) un homme 
(), car il était l'Oint du Seigneur, c'est-à-dire le Messie!! (Voyez 
Josèphe, Antiq., lib. XVIII, cap. iii, 3.)
Mais à quoi bon perdre son temps à redire des choses que tout homme 
bien élevé connaît. Monsieur l'abbé nous renvoie, à tout moment, aux 
Évangiles et à saint Paul, et, faisant pleuvoir un torrent de 
citations, il demande triomphalement: «Est-ce assez clair? Le Christ 
ne dit-il pas lui-même ceci et cela, et saint Paul ne nous assure-t-
il pas que. . ., etc., etc». Inutile de dire que pour que les paroles 
de Jésus obtiennent quelque valeur comme preuve, il faut d'abord que 
l'authenticité des Évangiles soit prouvée. Jésus, qu'il ait vécu à 
cette époque ou auparavant, n'a rien écrit, et ce qu'on lui fait dire 
dans les quatre Évangiles est parfois terriblement contradictoire. 
Quant à Paul, personnage historique certainement, il serait difficile 
de se retrouver au milieu de ce qu'il dit lui-même et de ce que ses 
éditeurs et correcteurs lui font dire. Il est restécependant?par 
inadvertance sans doute?une phrase, de lui ou de ses collaborateurs, 
qui résume en deux mots ce qu'on pensait de Jésus. Voyez Épitre aux 
Hébreux, ii, 9;

??????????
* Ajoutez à cela qu'il invente le fameux monogramme pour le Labarum 
de Constantin (combinaison de X, Chi, P, Rho, initiales de Christos 
qu'il applique à Jésus) et fabrique la vision de cet empereur. Mais 
Gibbon et d'autres historiens ont depuis longtemps jugé Eusèbe dont 
on connaît la valeur maintenant.?Voir dans un prochain numéro du 
Lotus mes notes (No. 3) à ce sujet.
??????????

Page 206

vous y lirez que Jésus a été fait «inférieur aux anges». Cela nous 
suffit. Celui qui est inférieur aux anges peut-il être Dieu, l'Infini 
et l'Unique?
Oui tout homme, tout Ju-su (nom d'Horus, Khons, le Fils, type de 
l'homme), tout initié surtout dont le corps est fait inférieur à 
celui des anges, peut, en présence de son Atman (Esprit divin), dire: 
Vivit vero in me Christus, comme il dirait: Krishna, Bouddha or 
Ormuzd vit en moi.* Après avoir répété ce que j'avais dit dans mes 
«Notes» du Christos ne se développant que par le Chrestos, comme s'il 
disait quelque chose de neuf et venant de lui, Monsieur l'abbé 
s'écrie d'un ton menaçant que nul n'entrera dans ce corps glorifié 
sinon par la «voie critique et la porte étroite». Pour lui, c'est le 
Nirvana béatique, et il continue à prêcher ce que nous prêchons 
depuis douze ans et ce que je disais encore dans mes Notes. Il me 
permettra d'achever ce qu'il laisse en si beau chemin, ne trouvant 
cette voie que dans le giron de son Église, de sa foi à lui. 
Malheureusement son angusta porta, et arcta via ne peuvent 
s'appliquer ni à son Église ni à sa foi. Dans cette Église où tout 
s'achète, crimes et indulgences, amulettes et béatitude (sur terre, 
du moins; quant au Ciel?après moi le Déluge!), la voie et la porte 
s'élargissent en proportion des sommes payées par le croyant. Arrière 
religion de Judas! C'est à (saint) Pierre que son maître a dit: VADE 
RETRO SATANAS! La preuve en est dans l'Évangile même, disje, répétant 
la phrase coutumière de M. l'abbé Roca.

-?????????
* En hébreu, I'homme, ou A¿sh (:*!) donne par dérivation 
cabbalistique cette autre forme :*, Jesh, en grec et en fran,cais Jes-
us, signifiant en même temps lefeu, le soleil, là divinité et 
l'homme. Ce mot (voyez-le avec les points de la massore) était 
prononcé :!, ish ou Jesh, l'homme dans ce cas. La forme féminine 
était %:!, Issa, la femme; en égyptien Isi-s, Isis. La forme 
collatérale en était *:* Jesse, ou Isi, dont le féminin en égyptien 
était Isi-s. Mais Isi est l'équivalente de Jesse, le père de David, 
de la race de qui vient Jésus, Jes-us. C'est qu'il faut connaître la 
langue du Mystère et du Symbolisme avant de parler avec tant 
d'autorité, et cette langue l'Eglise l'a perdue.?Voir mes notes (No. 
4) dans un prochain numéro du Lotus.
??????????

CW IX Page 226

called Jehoshua (from which Jesus has been made) born at Lüd or Lydda 
about 120 years before the modern era. And if this fact is denied?to 
which I can hardly object?one must resign oneself to regard the hero 
of the drama of Calvary as a myth pure and simple. As a matter of 
fact, in spite of all the desperate research made during long 
centuries, if we set aside the testimony of the "Evangelists," i.e., 
unknown men whose identity has never been established, and that of 
the Fathers of the Church, interested fanatics, neither history, nor 
profane tradition, neither official documents, nor the contemporaries 
of the soi-disant drama, are able to provide one single serious proof 
of the historical and real existence, not only of the Man-God but 
even of him called Jesus of Nazareth, from the year 1 to the year 33. 
All is darkness and silence. Philo Judaeus, born before the Christian 
Era, and dying quite some time after the year when, according to 
Renan, the hallucination of a hysterical woman, Mary of Magdala, gave 
a God to the world, made several journeys to Jerusalem during that 
interval of forty-odd years. He went there to write the history of 
the religious sects of his epoch in Palestine. No writer is more 
correct in his descriptions, more careful to omit nothing; no 
community, no fraternity, even the most insignificant, escaped him. 
Why then does he not speak of the Nazarites? Why does he not make the 
least allusion to the Apostles, to the divine Galilean, to the 
Crucifixion? The answer is easy. Because the biography of Jesus was 
invented after the first century, and no one in Jerusalem was better 
informed on the subject than Philo himself. We have but to read the 
quarrel of Irenaeus with the Gnostics in the 2nd century, to be 
certain of it. Ptolemaeus (180 A.D.), having remarked that Jesus 
preached one year according to the legend, and that he was too young 
to have been able to teach anything of importance, Irenaeus had a bad 
fit of indignation and testified that Jesus preached more than ten or 
even twenty years! Tradition alone, he said, speaks of ten years 
(Contra Haereses, lib. II, cap. 22, para. 4-5). Elsewhere, he makes 
Jesus die at the age of fifty years or more!! Now, if as early as the 
year 180, a Father of the Church had recourse to tradition, and if no

Page 227

one was sure of anything, and no great importance was attributed to 
the Gospels?to the Logia of which there were more than sixty?what 
place has history in all of this? Confusion, lies, deceit, and 
forgery, such is the ledger of the early centuries. Eusebius of 
Caesarea, king of falsifiers, inserted the famous 16 lines referring 
to Jesus in a manuscript of Josephus, to get even with the Gnostics 
who denied that there ever had been a real personage named Jesus.* 
Still more: he attributed to Josephus, a fanatic who died as he had 
lived, a stubborn Jew, the reflection that it is perhaps not correct 
to call him (Iasous) a man ("<ZD), because he was the Lord's 
Anointed, i.e., the Messiah!! (Vide Josephus, Antiq., lib. XVIII, 
cap. iii, 3.)?
But what use is it to waste time repeating what every well-educated 
man knows. The Abbé continually refers us to the Gospels and to St. 
Paul, and, showering on us a torrent of quotations, triumphantly 
demands: "Is this clear enough? Did not Christ himself say this and 
that, and does not St. Paul assure us that. . . etc., etc., . . ." It 
is hardly necessary to say that for the words of Jesus to possess any 
value as proof, the authenticity of the Gospels must first be proved. 
Jesus, whether he lived at that epoch or earlier, never wrote 
anything, and what he has been made to say in the four Gospels is 
sometimes terribly contradictory. As to Paul, undoubtedly a 
historical personage, it would be difficult to separate, in his 
writings, what he said himself and what his editors and correctors 
have made him say. However, there remains?doubtless by inadvertence?
one expression, by him or by his collaborators, which sums up in two 
words what was thought about Jesus. Look up the Epistle to the 
Hebrews, ii, 9; you will read there that Jesus was made "inferior to 
the angels." That is enough for us.

??????????
* Add to this that he invented the famous monogram for the Labarum of 
Constantine (a combination of X Chi, and P Rho, initials of Christos 
which he applied to Jesus) and fabricated the vision of that Emperor. 
But Gibbon and other historians have judged Eusebius long ago, and 
his value is well known now. See my notes (No. 3), on this subject, 
in a forthcoming number of Le Lotus.
? [Also 63-64, acc. to the pagination of the Greek text.?Compiler.]
??????????


 

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