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Re: Theos-World 2012 ?

Dec 20, 2008 11:12 AM
by Morten Nymann Olesen


Dear friends and John


My views are:

What is not important to you, is indeed very important to the TRUTH.
Because the Vatican is infected with Dugpas and Sorcerers and other kinds of villains.

John said: "She did mention the Joshua ben Pandira if I recall correctly. But I also seem to recall she did not validate it as truth."

You are in error as far as I am concerned. Try to read the quotes in the below. But I can only prove it in the Akasha and not by useless scholary excersises.


1.
May I ask...

John, do you think the Mahatma Letters 90 is a hoax?
"So is Jesus and John the Baptist to Edward Maitland; as true and as honest and sincere as S.M.; though neither knew the other John the Baptist having never heard of Jesus who is a spiritual abstraction and no living man of that epoch. "
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-90.htm


2.
Remember, that H. P. Blavatsky in the below letter refers to it as an OFTEN demonstrated fact that the Jesus character was born about 120 BC. How you will twist that into something else is your choice... I agree with Blavatsky and Master KH:

"The legend of which I speak is founded, as I have demonstrated over and over again in my writings and my notes, on the existence of a personage called Jehoshua (from which Jesus has been made) born at Lüd or Lydda about 120 years before the modern era. And if this fact is denied-to which I can hardly object-one must resign oneself to regard the hero of the drama of Calvary as a myth pure and simple. As a matter of fact, in spite of all the desperate research made during long centuries, if we set aside the testimony of the "Evangelists," i.e., unknown men whose identity has never been established, and that of the Fathers of the Church, interested fanatics, neither history, nor profane tradition, neither official documents, nor the contemporaries of the soi-disant drama, are able to provide one single serious proof of the historical and real existence, not only of the Man-God but even of him called Jesus of Nazareth, from the year 1 to the year 33. All is darkness and silence."
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v9/y1888_033.htm


3.
H.P. Blavatsky also says:

"I say the scholars are either lying or talking nonsense. Our Masters affirm the statement. If the story of Jehoshua or Jesus Ben-Pandira is false, then the whole Talmud, the whole Jewish Canon is false. He was the disciple of Jehoshua Ben Perahiah, the fifth President of the Sanhedrin after Ezra who re-wrote the Bible. Compromised in the revolt of the Pharisees against Jannaeus in 105 B.C., he fled into Egypt carrying the young Jesus with him. This account is far truer than that of the New Testament which has no record in history."

"[Reference is here made to the tradition preserved in the Gemara of the Babylonian Talmud, namely in the treatises known as Sotah (chap. ix, 47a) and Sanhedrin (chap. xi, 107b). Consult in this connection H. P. B.'s article, "A Word with the Theosophists" (The Theosophist, Vol. IV, March 1883, pp. 143-145; re-published in Vol. IV, of the present Series); a footnote embodied in the 2nd installment of her essay, "The Esoteric Character of the"
.......

"Gospels"; and the valuable work of G. R. S. Mead, Did Jesus Live 100 B.C.? (London and Benares: Theos. Publ. Society, 1903), who has surveyed all available exoteric evidence on this subject. The recent discovery of certain "Scrolls" in a cave around the Dead Sea go a long way towards confirming the tradition contained in the Talmud. Mention should be made here of the fact that H. P. B.'s original French sentence is somewhat ambiguous; a literal translation of it makes it appear equally ambiguous in English. Therefore, to eliminate any possibility of confusion, it should be pointed out that it was Jehoshua (or Joshua) Ben Perahiah who was compromised in the revolt against Jannaeus, and fled to Egypt with the young Jehoshua Ben Pandira. Gerald Massey, in a letter to the Medium and Daybreak, a London weekly, gives an account of his historical researches on this important subject, from which the following paragraphs are quoted in The Theosophist, Vol. V, Suppl. to June, 1884, pp. 84-85: "The Christian cult did not commence with our Canonical Gospels, nor with a personal founder supposed to be therein portrayed. "The Jehoshua of the Talmud was undoubtedly an historical character. According to a tradition preserved in the Toledoth Jehoshua, he was related to Queen Salome, the wife and later widow of King Jannaeus, who reigned from the year 106 to 79 B.C. She is said to have tried to protect Jehoshua from his sacerdotal enemies, because she had been a witness of his wonderful works. One Jewish account asserts that this man, who is not to be named, was a disciple of Jehoshua ben-Perachia. It also says he was born in the fourth year of the reign of Alexander Jannaeus, notwithstanding the assertions of his followers that he was born in the reign of Herod. That is about a century earlier than the Christian era, which is supposed to have been dated from the birth of Christ. Jehoshua is described as being the son of Pandira and of Stada, the Strayed One. "The Rabbi ben-Perachia is likewise an historical character. He had begun to teach in the year 154 B.C.; therefore he was not born later than 180 to 170 B.C. But it is also related that this Rabbi fled into Egypt during the Civil War in which the Pharisees"
.......

"revolted against King Alexander Jannaeus. This was about the year 105 B.C.; and as Jehoshua ben-Pandira accompanied the Rabbi as his pupil, he may have been born as early as 120 B.C. We learn from Tract Shabbath, of the Babylonian Gemara to the Mishna, that Jehoshua ben-Pandira was stoned to death as a wizard in the city of Lud or Lydda, and was afterwards crucified by being hung upon the tree on the eve of the Passover. Another tradition records that Jehoshua was put to death during the reign of Salome, which ended in the year 71 B.C. "Jehoshua is the sole historical Jesus known either to the Jews or the Christians. For, Epiphanius in the fourth century actually traces the pedigree of his Jesus the Christ to Pandira, who was the father of that Jehoshua who lived and died at least a century too soon to be the Christ of our Canonical Gospels. This shifts the historic basis altogether; it antedates the human history by a century and destroys the historic character of the Gospels, together with that of any other Jesus than Jehoshua ben-Pandira whom both Jews and Christians agree to identify as the sole human personality. The traditions further show that Jehoshua was a Nazarene in reality, and not because he was born at Nazareth, which never could have constituted any one a Nazarene! "Now the Book Abodazura contains a comment on the Apostle James, in which it describes him as 'a follower of Jehoshua the Nazarene,' whom I have shown to be that 'other Jesus,' who was not the Jesus or Christ of Paul. Here then opens the great rift between an historical Jehoshua, the magician, preacher, and the mythological Jesus of the Canonical Gospels; a rift that has never been bottomed, and over which I have attempted to throw a bridge." Consult the Bio-Bibliographical Index, s.v. JOSHUA BEN PERAHIAH.-Compiler.] "
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v8/y1887_048.htm



4.
Mahatma Letter 30 - by KH
"The chela is at perfect liberty, and often quite justified from the standpoint of appearances -- to suspect his Guru of being "a fraud" as the elegant word stands. More than that: the greater, the sincerer his indignation -- whether expressed in words or boiling in his heart -- the more fit he is, the better qualified to become an adept. He is free to, and will not be held to account for using the most abusive words and expressions regarding his guru's actions and orders, provided he comes out victorious from the fiery ordeal; provided he resists all and every temptation; rejects every allurement, and proves that nothing, not even the promise of that which he holds dearer than life, of that most precious boon, his future adeptship -- is unable to make him deviate from the path of truth and honesty, or force him to become a deceiver. My dear Sir, we will hardly ever agree in our ideas of things, and even of the value of words. You have once upon a time called us Jesuits; and, viewing things as you do, perhaps, you were right to a certain extent in so regarding us, since apparently our systems of training do not differ much. But it is only externally. As I once said before, they know that what they teach is a lie; and we know that what we impart is truth, the only truth and nothing but the truth. They work for the greater power and glory (!) of their order; we -- for the power and final glory of individuals, of isolated units, of humanity in general, and we are content, nay forced -- to leave our Order and its chiefs entirely in the shade. They work, and toil, and deceive, for the sake of worldly power in this life; we work and toil, and allow our chelas to be temporarily deceived, to afford them means never to be deceived hereafter, and to see the whole evil of falsity and untruth, not alone in this but in many of their after lives. They -- the Jesuits sacrifice the inner principle, the Spiritual brain of the ego, to feed and develop the better the physical brain of the personal evanescent man, sacrificing the whole humanity to offer it as a holocaust to their Society -- the insatiable monster feeding on the brain and marrow of humanity, and developing an incurable cancer on every spot of healthy flesh it touches. We -- the criticized and misunderstood Brothers -- we seek to bring men to sacrifice their personality -- a passing flash -- for the welfare of the whole humanity, hence for their own immortal Egos, a part of the latter, as humanity is a fraction of the integral whole, that it will one day become. They are trained to deceive; we -- to undeceive; they do the scavenger's work themselves -- barring a few poor sincere tools of theirs -- con amore, and for selfish ends; we -- leave it to our menials -- the dugpas at our service, by giving them carte blanche for the time being, and with the sole object of drawing out the whole inner nature of the chela, most of the nooks and corners of which, would remain dark and concealed for ever, were not an opportunity afforded to test each of these corners in turn. Whether the chela wins or loses the prize -- depends solely of himself. Only, you have to remember that our Eastern ideas about "motives" and "truthfulness" and "honesty" differ considerably from your ideas in the West. "
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-30.htm



So there are here no shortcuts and no bridges to be build but the TRUTH and the rock to build on. Jesus was based Jehosua Pandira and was born about 120 BC. The Christ of Paulus is a fictious character. - And I agree H. P. Blavatsky does not have the final word in everything. But in this case I will make a clear exception based on my own experiences!


Why are there no real historical evidence about the claimed Gospel Jesus at the time of Pilate?



M. Sufilight



----- Original Message ----- From: <Augoeides-222@comcast.net>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 ?


Morten,
It isn't important whether H.P.B. agreed with Mead. She did mention the Joshua ben Pandira if I recall correctly. But I also seem to recall she did not validate it as truth. It would be nonsense, she understood where that malicious rumor came from. That is not to say that she did not place the time of Jesus earlier as did G R S Mead. But I maintain she never accepted your version.

It isn't a case of HPB being as you say, because everyone in the world that knows this knows that Joshuas ben Pandira is pure bull Morten lol!

And I simply don't accept your akashic recalls as truth. Just my personal prerogative.

G R S Mead is the only Theosophist of Madame Blavatsky's circle that was recognized as a Scholar worldwide then and now and his works are not" well meant friendly ideas and angles" he reports true history that has wide agreement by Scholars all over the world in contrast to your posited ideas. He was personal Secretary to Blavatsky. You should read his works for good facts. Just because The Romans and Rabbis invented false ridicule and reports doesn't make them true, they both had perverse motives. The Romans feared the new religion. The Rabbis hated what they saw as a false messiah and created false reports as a distraction.
   Blavatsky is not the final word on all things to me, sorry.

Regards,
John

-------------- Original message -------------- From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>

Sure.

John wrote:
"G. R. S. Mead in his survey says it is invalid and was created for the
purpose of ridiclue."

Did H. P. Blavatsky state this view anywhere? Did she not state the quite
opposite and said that it was a - fact - that Jesus (Joshua Pandira) was
born appr. 120 BC.?

Mead was not on the same level as H. P. Blavatsky. Some persons are looking
at the Akasha records instead. And their views are not quite the same as G.
R. S. Mead's wellmeant friendly scholary ideas and angles.

---

Let us at least remember David Pratt's articles on Jesus and the gospels.
They have some interesting and valid content.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/jesus.htm (On Jesus)
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/christian.htm (On the Gospels)

M. Sufilight

----- Original Message ----- From: <Augoeides-222@comcast.net>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 ?

Morten,
You seem attached to the Joshua ben Pandera abusive Roman ridicule for
some reason. G. R. S. Mead in his survey says it is invalid and was created
for the purpose of ridiclue. Their version of Joshua ben Pandera ( a
fallacious, false name is that a Roman Centurian had sex with a whore who
conceived and birthed the Christ Child.In that time it was a malicious rumor
used to smear, ridicule and make nothing of this upstart religion of the
early Christians. There are no tangible credible records of the Romans in
regard to Jesus of Nazareth. G. R. S. Mead also wrote "Did Jesus Live 100
B.C.". An inquiry into the Talmudic Jesus stories, the Toldoth Jeschu, and
some curious statements of Epiphanius--- being a contribution to the study
of Christian Origins by G.R.S. Mead B .A. M.R.A.S., 1903.

Also I recommend his "Fragments of a Faith Forgotten" an indispensable
survey recommended by all Religious Scholars , Library of Congress #
60-15310.

Regards,
John

-------------- Original message -------------- From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>
Allright.
Jesus (Jehosua Pandira) was mortal, and Christ was and is not.
I think I got it now.

M. Sufilight

----- Original Message ----- From: Cass Silva
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:21 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 ?

Calleman is saying that the date is 28 October 2011
Cass
http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/2012/id/1726

________________________________
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 20 December, 2008 4:57:20 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 ?

Is there anyone who can help me out, and who understands Christina words in
this thread?

M. Sufillight

----- Original Message ----- From: christinaleestemake r
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 ?

If you and you think for others, don't understand me; While you don't
understand what masters say on it.That are not my words, I only
citate them.
Christina

-- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-
theosophy@.. .> wrote:

My views are:

Yes?
And then what?

---
I am not sure I and others understand you.


M. Sufilight

----- Original Message ----- From: christinaleestemake r
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 ?


Ok as I read in Mahatma Letters, Jesus as mortal like anyone of
us,
an adept more by his inherent purity and ignorance of real evil,
than by what he have learned with his initiated rabbis and the
already (at that period) fast degenerating Eyptian Hierophants
and
priests. etc
Letter 59 page 339 Barkers edition 1979

--- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-
theosophy@> wrote:
>
> My views are:
>
> The "darkness" mentioned by Blavatsky is about when Jesus
(Joshua
Pandira) was born and when he taught. Today the Christian Church
is,
as far as I view it, still in darkness, and a number of those who
call themselves filled with wisdom are also in darkness, because
they
find the Bible to be infallible.
>
>
> M. Sufilight
>
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: christinaleestemake r
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 6:29 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 ?
>
>
> So what after 33 years? If 1-33 is darkness, is not the whole
> darkness?
> Christina
>
> /
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
<global-
> theosophy@> wrote:
> >
> > Dear friends
> >
> > My views are:
> >
> > Blavatsky and Master said that Jesus was born in Lod (Lydda)
year
> 120 BC.
> >
> > W. C. Leadbeater and Annie Besant said 105 BC. And Alice A.
Bailey
> wrote a book titled "From Bethlehem to Calvary" saying in this
book,
> that "the historical accuracy of His story remains as yet
unsolved"
> and "for when He was born at Bethlehem, it was not simply the
birth
> of another divine Teacher and Messenger" .
> >
> >
> > Now who is telling the truth?
> >
> > - - -
> >
> > H. P. Blavatsky on the New Testament and Jesus:
> > "This theory of the seven keys, the Church, according to the
Abbé
> Roca, has simplified "without disfiguring it," reducing the
keys
to
> three; while, on the contrary, it has fabricated three false
keys
> which do not open anything. The legend of which I speak is
founded,
> as I have demonstrated over and over again in my writings and
my
> notes, on the existence of a personage called Jehoshua (from
which
> Jesus has been made) born at Lüd or Lydda about 120 years
before
the
> modern era. And if this fact is denied-to which I can hardly
object-
> one must resign oneself to regard the hero of the drama of
Calvary as
> a myth pure and simple. As a matter of fact, in spite of all
the
> desperate research made during long centuries, if we set aside
the
> testimony of the "Evangelists, " i.e., unknown men whose
identity
has
> never been established, and that of the Fathers of the Church,
> interested fanatics, neither history, nor profane tradition,
neither
> official documents, nor the contemporaries of the soi-disant
drama,
> are able to provide one single serious proof of the historical
and
> real existence, not only of the Man-God but even of him called
Jesus
> of Nazareth, from the year 1 to the year 33. All is darkness
and
> silence."
> > (H. P. Blavatsly's Collected Writings, vol. 9, p. 225-6).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: christinaleestemake r
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 5:31 PM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 ?
> >
> >
> > Right, no one can be sure, for we have not been in the time
Jezus
> was
> > born.It was written that he was there long before the
counting
> > started in the year 1 from our calender
> >
> > Christina
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@ >
wrote:
> > >
> > > Not sure what you are getting at Christina
> > > Cass
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > > From: christinaleestemake r <christinaleestemak er@>
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 17 December, 2008 10:03:26 PM
> > > Subject: Theos-World 2012 ?
> > >
> > >
> > > I read somewhere Leon wrote to Cass the change in 2012 but
we
> must
> > > not forget that our beginning of yearcounting happened 7
years
> > after
> > > Jezus birthday.
> > > Christina
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter
> > now http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ homepageset/ ?
> p1=other&p2= au&p3=tagline
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





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