Theos-Talk Archives (October 2008 Message tt00952)

LMAO

--- On Tue, 10/28/08, Erica Letzerich <eletzerich@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Erica Letzerich <eletzerich@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: COSMIC DOWNSIZING - Aryel Sanat
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 2:05 PM

Dear Martin,

You wrote:
<Ps. welke plek zit jij ergens in Nederland; ben je, behalve e-mailerig
(schriftelijk) eigenlijk nog nergens tegengekomen...maar dat is
misschien ook wel de bedoeling, hahaha.>

What I have to say is:

ÎÎÎÎÏ ÎÎÎÎÎÎÎ: ÎÎÎ ÏÎÎÎÎÎÎÏÎ ÎÎÎÎÎ
ÏÎÎÏÏÎÎÎÎÎ ÎÎ ÎÎÎÎ
ÎÏÎÎÏÏÎ. ÎÎÎÎÎÎÎÎ Î ÎÏÎÎÏÏÎÏ ÎÎÎ ÏÎ
ÏÎÎÎÎÎÎÏÎ ÏÏÎÎÎÏÏÏÎÎÎÎÎ ÏÎÎÏ, ÎÎÎÎ
ÏÎÎÎÎÎ ÏÎ ÎÎÏÎÏÎÏÎ ÎÎÎ ÏÎÎÏÏÎÏÏÎÎÎ ÎÎÎ
ÎÎÎÎÎ ÎÏÎÎÏÏÎ. 

ÎÎÎÎ ÎÎÎÎÎ ÏÎ ÎÎÎÎÏ ÎÎÎÎÎÎÎ; 
ÎÎ ÎÎÎÏ ÏÎ ÏÎÎÎÎÎÎÏÎ ÎÎÏÎÎ ÎÎ ÎÎÎÎ
ÎÎÎÎÎÎÏÎ. hahahahahaha 

Erica




________________________________
From: Martin <Mvandertak@yahoo.com>
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 12:35:42 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: COSMIC DOWNSIZING - Aryel Sanat

Yow Katinka, trying or actually doing so? I mean a 100 years since it's
founding should have been enough for 'trying'?
I"ll see if I can sense some change by visiting Naarden and Amsterdam
library ( as you may know I am from Amsterdam) and then I'll report my
findings here.
However, my findings are also still 'try outs', for the beast of vanity
is still active in me...it may take a 100 lives to exhaust my trying :-), but I
am asured it will be a white horse one of these days (probably when I have
reached the state of St. Nicolas).

Ps. welke plek zit jij ergens in Nederland; ben je, behalve e-mailerig
(schriftelijk) eigenlijk nog nergens tegengekomen...maar dat is misschien ook
wel de bedoeling, hahaha.

--- On Tue, 10/28/08, Katinka Hesselink <mail@katinkahesselink.net>
wrote:
From: Katinka Hesselink <mail@katinkahesselink.net>
Subject: Theos-World Re: COSMIC DOWNSIZING - Aryel Sanat
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 10:57 AM










    
            It has come to my attention yesterday that the Dutch TS is actually

trying to reform. Several committee's have been set up and the preview

of the proposals I heard were interesting. 



So aside from trying to change the way the international president is

elected, they are also attempting a more positive change. 



Katinka

--- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, MKR <mkr777@...> wrote:

>

> Thanks, Anton for your msg.

> 

> The root causes of the current situation, in my opinion, are:

> 

> 1. Attempt to defeat Radha Burnier by feeding inaccurate and possibly

> deliberate misinformation to members.

> 

> 2. Immediately following the election, the Ultra Secret plan to

> disenfranchise members with speedy radical changes to the rules.

> 

> These are very serious and fundamental issues affecting every

members and

> goes to the root issue of the trust one can place on the GC

members/leaders

> who are behind them. So, under the current climate, it is not going

to be

> simple to fix any real or imagined problems.

> 

> Also none of the GC members seem to recognise the most serious problem

> facing TS - precipitous decline in membership outside India.

> 

> All the tweaking of the rules will do nothing to fix this problem

since all

> sections are autonomous and do their own thing so long they do not

violate

> the three objects.

> 

> These are very simple issues that everyone can see and understand.

> 

> mkr

> On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 7:32 AM, Anton Rozman <anton_rozman@
...>wrote:

> 

> >   Dear friends,

> >

> > I would like to make some comments because it seems that it is now

> > premuned that the Theosophical Society is and has been till now true

> > democracy, now endangered by group of people lead by John Algeo, what

> > is, from my point of view, completely twisted perspective of the

> > actual situation.

> >

> > In first place let me overview once again some basic statistics of

> > past TS President election results. Votes were received from 12,993

> > members out of 20,879 members of the Society eligible to vote and

> > this number represents 62, 2 % of members eligible to vote and 44, 8

> > % of all members of the Theosophical Society. John Algeo received

> > 4,323 votes or 20, 7 % and Radha Burnier 8,560 votes or 41% of all

> > members eligible to vote. Therefore none of the candidates received

> > majority support of the TS members eligible to vote, still less of

> > all members of the Society. The fact that the elected President does

> > not enjoy the majority support should represent a warning that in the

> > Society some necessary changes are eminent and that there is an

> > urgency to find such solutions which will find consensus of majority

> > of the Society's members.

> >

> > The proposal of the Amendments to the TS Rules and Regulations

> > certainly didn't lead to the consensus solution and only deepened
the

> > polarization in the Society. More over, none of the poles or TS

> > officers have till now presented any concrete proposal or visible

> > sign of willingness to find some consensus solutions and foster the

> > democratization and transparency in the Society.

> >

> > Next, there seems that it is absent transparent fundamental direction

> > of the Society for the next years as it seems that the General

> > Council, as the Governing Body of the TS, will not discuss any

> > proposal and accept any policy and plan of work. At least we
didn't

> > see any such proposal except that in John Algeo's election
campaign

> > material.

> >

> > Further on, although it was clearly established that during the

> > election process several TS officers have behaved immorally,

> > violating TS Rules and Regulations and unethically conducted the

> > election campaign, what certainly damaged the Society, we didn't
see

> > any statement of regret or apology to the membership, still less any

> > sign of willingness to offer a resignation.

> >

> > And finally, it is hoped that continuation of this unconstructive,

> > war-like situation will soon wake up those uniting forces and

> > numerous towards brotherhood oriented members to step forward and

> > launch the revitalization of the Society on the principle of

> > brotherhood and cooperation and transcend the quarrels which from

> > broader perspective of the needs of the Society and humanity at large

> > would look really silly if they were not sad.

> >

> > Warmest regards,

> > Anton

> >

> > p.s. I am adding excerpts from David R. Loy's "Perspectives
on Evil

> > and Human Wickedness", Vol. 1 No. 2 Page 123, The Non-duality of
Good

> > and Evil: Buddhist Reflections on the New Holy War (Copyright (c)

> > Wickedness Net 2003, http://www.wickedne ss.net.)

> >

> > If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people

> > somewhere, insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary

> > only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the

> > line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human

> > being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? -

> > Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago.

> >

> > In his autobiography Gandhi writes that "those who say that
religion

> > has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion means"
Â

> > religion is about how we should live, and politics is about deciding

> > together how we want to live. The main reason it has not been obvious

> > is because most modern societies have been careful to distinguish the

> > secular public sphere from the personal, private world of religious

> > belief. This has been essential for creating a multicultural climate

> > of religious tolerance, but at a price: such tolerance

> > effectively "displaces morality" by "asking you to
inhabit your own

> > moral convictions loosely and be ready to withdraw from them whenever

> > pursuing them would impinge on the activities and choices of
others."

> >

> > Our understanding of good and evil cannot be simply identified with

> > any religious worldview, but the two are intimately related.

> >

> > In other words, one of the main causes of evil in this world has been

> > human attempts to eradicate evil, or what has been viewed as evil. In

> > more Buddhist terms, much of the world's suffering has been a
result

> > of our way of thinking about good and evil.

> >

> > You're either with us or against us.

> >

> > From a Buddhist perspective, there is something delusive about both

> > sides of this mirror image, and it is important to understand how

> > this black-and-white way of thinking brings more suffering, more

> > evil, into the world.

> >

> > This dualism of good-versus- evil is attractive because it is a
simple

> > way of looking at the World.

> >

> > If the world is a battleground of good and evil forces, the evil that

> > is in the world must be fought and defeated by any means necessary.

> >

> > Nevertheless, it is a tragic fact that many religious people - or

> > many people who believe themselves to be religious - have objectified

> > and projected this struggle as a struggle in the external world

> > between the good (most of all, their own religion) and evil (other

> > religions).

> >

> > Perhaps the basic problem with this simplistic good-versus- evil way

> > of understanding conflict is that, because it tends to preclude

> > further thought, it keeps us from looking deeper, from trying to

> > discover causes. Once something has been identified as evil, there is

> > no more need to explain it; it is time to focus on fighting against

> > it.

> >

> > For Buddhism, evil, like everything else, has no essence or substance

> > of its own; it is a product of impermanent causes and conditions.

> > Buddhism emphasizes the concept of evil less than what it calls the

> > three roots of evil, or the three causes of evil, also known as the

> > three poisons: greed, ill will and delusion.

> >

> > Buddhism emphasizes ignorance and enlightenment because the basic

> > issue depends on our self-knowledge: do we really understand what

> > motivates us?

> >

> > One way to summarize the basic Buddhist teaching is that we suffer,

> > and cause others to suffer, because of greed, ill will and delusion.

> > Karma implies that when our actions are motivated by these roots of

> > evil, their negative consequences tend to rebound back upon us. That

> > is true for everyone. However, the Buddhist solution to suffering

> > does not involve requiting violence with violence, any more than it

> > involves responding to greed with greed, or responding to delusion

> > with delusion. Â the Buddhist solution involves breaking that cycle

> > by transforming greed into generosity, ill will into loving kindness,

> > and delusions into wisdom.

> >

> > Realizing our interdependence and mutual responsibility for each

> > other implies something more than just an insight or intellectual

> > awareness. When we try to live the way this interdependence implies,

> > it is called love. Such love is much more than a feeling; perhaps it

> > is best understood as a mode of being in the world. Buddhist texts

> > emphasize compassion, generosity, and loving-kindness, and they all

> > reflect this mode, being different aspects of love. Such love is

> > sometimes mocked as weak and ineffectual, yet it can be very

> > powerful, as Gandhi showed. It embodies a deep wisdom about how the

> > cycle of hatred and violence works, and about how that cycle can be

> > ended. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, but there is an

> > alternative. Twenty-five hundred years ago Shakyamuni Buddha said:

> > "He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me" -
for those

> > who harbor such thoughts ill-will will never cease. "He abused
me, he

> > beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me" - for those who do not
harbor

> > such thoughts ill-will will cease.

> >

> > Because Buddhist enlightenment or "awakening" requires
mindfulness of

> > our ways of thinking, Buddhism encourages us to be wary of

> > antithetical concepts Â

> >

> > Perhaps the most important way the interdependence of good and evil

> > shows itself is that we don't know what is good until we know
what is

> > evil, and we don't feel we are good unless we are fighting
against

> > that evil. We can feel comfortable and secure in our own goodness

> > only by attacking and destroying the evil outside us.

> >

> > Because the villains like to hurt people, it's okay to hurt them.
Â

> > After all, they are evil and evil must be destroyed. What is this

> > kind of story really teaching us? That if you want to hurt someone,

> > it is important to demonize them first: in other words, to fit them

> > into your good-versus- evil script.

> >

> > When I manipulate the world to get what I want from it, the more

> > separate and alienated I feel from it, and the more separate others

> > feel from me, of course, when they have been manipulated; this mutual

> > distrust encourages both sides to manipulate more. On the other side,

> > the more I can relax and open up to the world, trusting it and

> > accepting the responsibility that involves responding to its needs -

> > which is what loving it means - the more I feel a part of it, at one

> > with other people; and the more others become inclined to trust and

> > open up to me.

> >

> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups.
com>,

Erica

> > Letzerich <eletzerich@ >

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > COSMIC DOWNSIZING

> > > AN OPEN LETTER TO THE MEMBERS OF THE GENERAL COUNCIL OF THE

> > THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY

> > >

> > > To read the lettter of Aryel Sanat click the link below:

> > > <http://eletzerich. wordpress. com/2008/ 10/27/cosmic-
downsizing- aryel-

> > sanat/>

> > >

> > > Erica

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

> >  

> >

> 

> 

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>




      

    
    
    
    
    
    








    


    
    


      

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