Re: Theos-World Re: COSMIC DOWNSIZING - Aryel Sanat
Oct 28, 2008 02:32 PM
by Martin
Volgens mij typte ik een berichtje aan Katinka, maar ach, we zijn 1 familie :-)
--- On Tue, 10/28/08, christinaleestemaker <christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: christinaleestemaker <christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com>
Subject: Theos-World Re: COSMIC DOWNSIZING - Aryel Sanat
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 2:15 PM
-
Martin , tegen een Griekse moet je niet Nederlands gaan praten!!!
Als je goed het ledenarchief bekijkt weet je vaak wie waar vandaan
komt
Groeten Christina
-- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Erica Letzerich <eletzerich@ ...>
wrote:
>
> Dear Martin,
>
> You wrote:
> <Ps. welke plek zit jij ergens in Nederland; ben je, behalve e-
mailerig
> (schriftelijk) eigenlijk nog nergens tegengekomen. ..maar dat is
> misschien ook wel de bedoeling, hahaha.>
>
> What I have to say is:
>
> Çèéêü äßäáãìá: ¸íá óáëéãêÜñé åßíáé ðáíôñåíÝíï ìå Ýíáí
> êýêëùðá. Ðåèáßíåé ï êýêëùðáò êáé ôï óáëéãêÜñé óôåíï÷ùñÞèçêå ðïëý,
áëëÜ
> ôåëéêÜ ôï îåðÝñáóå êáé ðáíôñåýôçêå êáé Üëëïí êýêëùðá.
>
> Ðïéï åßíáé ôï çèéêü äßäáãìá;
> Ôï êáëü ôï óáëéãêÜñé îÝñåé êé Üëëï ìïíïìÜôç. hahahahahaha
>
> Erica
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: Martin <Mvandertak@ ...>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 12:35:42 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: COSMIC DOWNSIZING - Aryel Sanat
>
> Yow Katinka, trying or actually doing so? I mean a 100 years since
it's founding should have been enough for 'trying'?
> I"ll see if I can sense some change by visiting Naarden and
Amsterdam library ( as you may know I am from Amsterdam) and then
I'll report my findings here.
> However, my findings are also still 'try outs', for the beast of
vanity is still active in me...it may take a 100 lives to exhaust my
trying :-), but I am asured it will be a white horse one of these
days (probably when I have reached the state of St. Nicolas).
>
> Ps. welke plek zit jij ergens in Nederland; ben je, behalve e-
mailerig (schriftelijk) eigenlijk nog nergens tegengekomen. ..maar dat
is misschien ook wel de bedoeling, hahaha.
>
> --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Katinka Hesselink <mail@...> wrote:
> From: Katinka Hesselink <mail@...>
> Subject: Theos-World Re: COSMIC DOWNSIZING - Aryel Sanat
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 10:57 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It has come to my attention yesterday that the Dutch TS
is actually
>
> trying to reform. Several committee's have been set up and the
preview
>
> of the proposals I heard were interesting.
>
>
>
> So aside from trying to change the way the international president
is
>
> elected, they are also attempting a more positive change.
>
>
>
> Katinka
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, MKR <mkr777@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Thanks, Anton for your msg.
>
> >
>
> > The root causes of the current situation, in my opinion, are:
>
> >
>
> > 1. Attempt to defeat Radha Burnier by feeding inaccurate and
possibly
>
> > deliberate misinformation to members.
>
> >
>
> > 2. Immediately following the election, the Ultra Secret plan to
>
> > disenfranchise members with speedy radical changes to the rules.
>
> >
>
> > These are very serious and fundamental issues affecting every
>
> members and
>
> > goes to the root issue of the trust one can place on the GC
>
> members/leaders
>
> > who are behind them. So, under the current climate, it is not
going
>
> to be
>
> > simple to fix any real or imagined problems.
>
> >
>
> > Also none of the GC members seem to recognise the most serious
problem
>
> > facing TS - precipitous decline in membership outside India.
>
> >
>
> > All the tweaking of the rules will do nothing to fix this problem
>
> since all
>
> > sections are autonomous and do their own thing so long they do not
>
> violate
>
> > the three objects.
>
> >
>
> > These are very simple issues that everyone can see and understand.
>
> >
>
> > mkr
>
> > On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 7:32 AM, Anton Rozman
<anton_rozman@ ...>wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > Dear friends,
>
> > >
>
> > > I would like to make some comments because it seems that it is
now
>
> > > premuned that the Theosophical Society is and has been till now
true
>
> > > democracy, now endangered by group of people lead by John
Algeo, what
>
> > > is, from my point of view, completely twisted perspective of the
>
> > > actual situation.
>
> > >
>
> > > In first place let me overview once again some basic statistics
of
>
> > > past TS President election results. Votes were received from
12,993
>
> > > members out of 20,879 members of the Society eligible to vote
and
>
> > > this number represents 62, 2 % of members eligible to vote and
44, 8
>
> > > % of all members of the Theosophical Society. John Algeo
received
>
> > > 4,323 votes or 20, 7 % and Radha Burnier 8,560 votes or 41% of
all
>
> > > members eligible to vote. Therefore none of the candidates
received
>
> > > majority support of the TS members eligible to vote, still less
of
>
> > > all members of the Society. The fact that the elected President
does
>
> > > not enjoy the majority support should represent a warning that
in the
>
> > > Society some necessary changes are eminent and that there is an
>
> > > urgency to find such solutions which will find consensus of
majority
>
> > > of the Society's members.
>
> > >
>
> > > The proposal of the Amendments to the TS Rules and Regulations
>
> > > certainly didn't lead to the consensus solution and only
deepened the
>
> > > polarization in the Society. More over, none of the poles or TS
>
> > > officers have till now presented any concrete proposal or
visible
>
> > > sign of willingness to find some consensus solutions and foster
the
>
> > > democratization and transparency in the Society.
>
> > >
>
> > > Next, there seems that it is absent transparent fundamental
direction
>
> > > of the Society for the next years as it seems that the General
>
> > > Council, as the Governing Body of the TS, will not discuss any
>
> > > proposal and accept any policy and plan of work. At least we
didn't
>
> > > see any such proposal except that in John Algeo's election
campaign
>
> > > material.
>
> > >
>
> > > Further on, although it was clearly established that during the
>
> > > election process several TS officers have behaved immorally,
>
> > > violating TS Rules and Regulations and unethically conducted the
>
> > > election campaign, what certainly damaged the Society, we
didn't see
>
> > > any statement of regret or apology to the membership, still
less any
>
> > > sign of willingness to offer a resignation.
>
> > >
>
> > > And finally, it is hoped that continuation of this
unconstructive,
>
> > > war-like situation will soon wake up those uniting forces and
>
> > > numerous towards brotherhood oriented members to step forward
and
>
> > > launch the revitalization of the Society on the principle of
>
> > > brotherhood and cooperation and transcend the quarrels which
from
>
> > > broader perspective of the needs of the Society and humanity at
large
>
> > > would look really silly if they were not sad.
>
> > >
>
> > > Warmest regards,
>
> > > Anton
>
> > >
>
> > > p.s. I am adding excerpts from David R. Loy's "Perspectives on
Evil
>
> > > and Human Wickedness", Vol. 1 No. 2 Page 123, The Non-duality
of Good
>
> > > and Evil: Buddhist Reflections on the New Holy War (Copyright
(c)
>
> > > Wickedness Net 2003, http://www.wickedne ss.net.)
>
> > >
>
> > > If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people
>
> > > somewhere, insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were
necessary
>
> > > only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But
the
>
> > > line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every
human
>
> > > being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? -
>
> > > Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago.
>
> > >
>
> > > In his autobiography Gandhi writes that "those who say that
religion
>
> > > has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion
means" ?
>
> > > religion is about how we should live, and politics is about
deciding
>
> > > together how we want to live. The main reason it has not been
obvious
>
> > > is because most modern societies have been careful to
distinguish the
>
> > > secular public sphere from the personal, private world of
religious
>
> > > belief. This has been essential for creating a multicultural
climate
>
> > > of religious tolerance, but at a price: such tolerance
>
> > > effectively "displaces morality" by "asking you to inhabit your
own
>
> > > moral convictions loosely and be ready to withdraw from them
whenever
>
> > > pursuing them would impinge on the activities and choices of
others."
>
> > >
>
> > > Our understanding of good and evil cannot be simply identified
with
>
> > > any religious worldview, but the two are intimately related.
>
> > >
>
> > > In other words, one of the main causes of evil in this world
has been
>
> > > human attempts to eradicate evil, or what has been viewed as
evil. In
>
> > > more Buddhist terms, much of the world's suffering has been a
result
>
> > > of our way of thinking about good and evil.
>
> > >
>
> > > You're either with us or against us.
>
> > >
>
> > > From a Buddhist perspective, there is something delusive about
both
>
> > > sides of this mirror image, and it is important to understand
how
>
> > > this black-and-white way of thinking brings more suffering, more
>
> > > evil, into the world.
>
> > >
>
> > > This dualism of good-versus- evil is attractive because it is a
simple
>
> > > way of looking at the World.
>
> > >
>
> > > If the world is a battleground of good and evil forces, the
evil that
>
> > > is in the world must be fought and defeated by any means
necessary.
>
> > >
>
> > > Nevertheless, it is a tragic fact that many religious people -
or
>
> > > many people who believe themselves to be religious - have
objectified
>
> > > and projected this struggle as a struggle in the external world
>
> > > between the good (most of all, their own religion) and evil
(other
>
> > > religions).
>
> > >
>
> > > Perhaps the basic problem with this simplistic good-versus-
evil way
>
> > > of understanding conflict is that, because it tends to preclude
>
> > > further thought, it keeps us from looking deeper, from trying to
>
> > > discover causes. Once something has been identified as evil,
there is
>
> > > no more need to explain it; it is time to focus on fighting
against
>
> > > it.
>
> > >
>
> > > For Buddhism, evil, like everything else, has no essence or
substance
>
> > > of its own; it is a product of impermanent causes and
conditions.
>
> > > Buddhism emphasizes the concept of evil less than what it calls
the
>
> > > three roots of evil, or the three causes of evil, also known as
the
>
> > > three poisons: greed, ill will and delusion.
>
> > >
>
> > > Buddhism emphasizes ignorance and enlightenment because the
basic
>
> > > issue depends on our self-knowledge: do we really understand
what
>
> > > motivates us?
>
> > >
>
> > > One way to summarize the basic Buddhist teaching is that we
suffer,
>
> > > and cause others to suffer, because of greed, ill will and
delusion.
>
> > > Karma implies that when our actions are motivated by these
roots of
>
> > > evil, their negative consequences tend to rebound back upon us.
That
>
> > > is true for everyone. However, the Buddhist solution to
suffering
>
> > > does not involve requiting violence with violence, any more
than it
>
> > > involves responding to greed with greed, or responding to
delusion
>
> > > with delusion. ? the Buddhist solution involves breaking that
cycle
>
> > > by transforming greed into generosity, ill will into loving
kindness,
>
> > > and delusions into wisdom.
>
> > >
>
> > > Realizing our interdependence and mutual responsibility for each
>
> > > other implies something more than just an insight or
intellectual
>
> > > awareness. When we try to live the way this interdependence
implies,
>
> > > it is called love. Such love is much more than a feeling;
perhaps it
>
> > > is best understood as a mode of being in the world. Buddhist
texts
>
> > > emphasize compassion, generosity, and loving-kindness, and they
all
>
> > > reflect this mode, being different aspects of love. Such love is
>
> > > sometimes mocked as weak and ineffectual, yet it can be very
>
> > > powerful, as Gandhi showed. It embodies a deep wisdom about how
the
>
> > > cycle of hatred and violence works, and about how that cycle
can be
>
> > > ended. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, but there
is an
>
> > > alternative. Twenty-five hundred years ago Shakyamuni Buddha
said:
>
> > > "He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me" - for
those
>
> > > who harbor such thoughts ill-will will never cease. "He abused
me, he
>
> > > beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me" - for those who do not
harbor
>
> > > such thoughts ill-will will cease.
>
> > >
>
> > > Because Buddhist enlightenment or "awakening" requires
mindfulness of
>
> > > our ways of thinking, Buddhism encourages us to be wary of
>
> > > antithetical concepts ?
>
> > >
>
> > > Perhaps the most important way the interdependence of good and
evil
>
> > > shows itself is that we don't know what is good until we know
what is
>
> > > evil, and we don't feel we are good unless we are fighting
against
>
> > > that evil. We can feel comfortable and secure in our own
goodness
>
> > > only by attacking and destroying the evil outside us.
>
> > >
>
> > > Because the villains like to hurt people, it's okay to hurt
them. ?
>
> > > After all, they are evil and evil must be destroyed. What is
this
>
> > > kind of story really teaching us? That if you want to hurt
someone,
>
> > > it is important to demonize them first: in other words, to fit
them
>
> > > into your good-versus- evil script.
>
> > >
>
> > > When I manipulate the world to get what I want from it, the more
>
> > > separate and alienated I feel from it, and the more separate
others
>
> > > feel from me, of course, when they have been manipulated; this
mutual
>
> > > distrust encourages both sides to manipulate more. On the other
side,
>
> > > the more I can relax and open up to the world, trusting it and
>
> > > accepting the responsibility that involves responding to its
needs -
>
> > > which is what loving it means - the more I feel a part of it,
at one
>
> > > with other people; and the more others become inclined to trust
and
>
> > > open up to me.
>
> > >
>
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups.
com>,
>
> Erica
>
> > > Letzerich <eletzerich@ >
>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > COSMIC DOWNSIZING
>
> > > > AN OPEN LETTER TO THE MEMBERS OF THE GENERAL COUNCIL OF THE
>
> > > THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY
>
> > > >
>
> > > > To read the lettter of Aryel Sanat click the link below:
>
> > > > <http://eletzerich. wordpress. com/2008/ 10/27/cosmic-
downsizing- aryel-
>
> > > sanat/>
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Erica
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> ------------ --------- --------- ------
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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