Theos-Talk Archives (August 2008 Message tt00031)

Daniel,
   Great!! Lol! You raise some very good queries. I enjoyed reading this. I won't start even! But How everyone manages to ignore that "Eden" was in "Paradise" has always mystified me as thats where those 72 Virgins are!!! He he! Samuel Fales Dunlap wrote some good works the elaborately analyzed the permutative history of religious Deity names, his "Sod", and "Vestiges of the Spirit History of Man" (1858) are revealing and he was very deep into the epistemology and roots of names and origins.

Regards,
John



-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "danielhcaldwell" <danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com> 
Thanks anandaam_11 for giving the quote by Blavatsky
from Volume 10.

I give the same quote again and ask Anand (not to be confused
with anandaam_11) to carefully
re-read this quote. There is a great deal of meaning
in this extract. Blavatsky is referring to several
concepts and ideas that are not necessarily identical
but certainly related.

I give the quote again and then following the quote I add a few 
comments and questions:

"Eastern philosophy rejects the idea of a personal and extra-cosmic
deity. And to those who call this atheism, I would say the following.
It is illogical to worship one such god, for, as said in the
Bible, "There be Lords many and Gods many." Therefore, if worship is
desirable, we have to choose either the worship of many gods, each
being no better or less limited than the other, viz., polytheism and
idolatry, or choose, as the Israelites have done, one tribal or
racial god from among them, and while believing in the existence of
many gods, ignore and show contempt for the others, regarding our own
as the highest and the "God of Gods." But this is logically
unwarrantable, for such a god can be neither infinite nor absolute,
but must be finite, that is to say, limited and conditioned by space
and time. With the Pralaya the tribal god disappears, and Brahmâ and
all the other Devas, and the gods are merged into the Absolute.
Therefore, occultists do not worship or offer prayers to them,
because if we did, we should have either to worship many gods, or
pray to the Absolute, which, having no attributes, can have no ears
to hear us. The worshipper even of many gods must of necessity be
unjust to all the other gods; however far he extends his worship it
is simply impossible for him to worship each severally; and in his
ignorance, if he choose out any one in particular, he may by no means
select the most perfect. Therefore, he would do better far to
remember that every man has a god within, a direct ray from the
Absolute, the celestial ray from the One; that he has his " god "
within, not outside of, himself." (Collected Writings volume 10, page 
345)

Notice some of the subjects or ideas Blavatsky deals with:

"a personal and extra-cosmic deity."

What is an EXTRA-cosmic deity? And could there be an INTRA-cosmic
deity?

"the tribal god"

for example, the Hebrew god Yahweh ??? or the god of a local Indian 
group here in Arizona? or the god of some other nation, religion or 
tribe?

"the gods are merged into the Absolute."

Here Blavatsky writes of "the gods" and also "the Absolute"

"every man has a god within, a direct ray from the
Absolute, the celestial ray from the One; that he has his " god "
within, not outside of, himself."

"a god within"??

Notice the number of ideas H.P.B. is writing about. How are these 
ideas related to each other? etc. etc.

Now to some questions and comments.

Anand, what "God" do you beleive in?

I have no idea at this juncture what God you actually believe in.

>From time to time over the years people will ask me:

Do you believe in God?

And ever since I was in college many years ago I always ask in turn:

Please tell me what you mean by "God"?

And my question is sincere. I ask them to describe what God they are 
meaning?

Do they mean the Hebrew God Yahweh? Or Allah of the Koran? Or 
Shiva? Or some Chinese deity? Or Mithras?

Anand, do all Hindu believe in the same God or Gods? Do all Hindu 
believe that there is one God who is supreme among all the Hindu gods?

Most Christians I know and have talked to believe only in Yahweh, the 
Hebrew god of the Old Testament. But they do NOT believe in Allah or 
any of the Hindu gods which they believe are false gods; or simply 
counterfeits created by Satan to deceive Christians, etc.

About 45 miles from where I live in Arizona (USA) is Baboquivari
Peak, which is the mountain home of I'itoi, the creator god of both 
the Tohono O'odham and the Pima Indians.

Anand, do you believe in I'itoi?

I've never asked my Christian friends about I'itoi. But based on 
many of their previous comments, I would suspect that they would 
consider him a pagan, false probably imaginary god.

And many Christians believe Jesus Christ is God incarnate. And many 
Hindu apparently believe Krishna is God incarnate. But I know of 
none of my Christian friends who believe in Krishna in such terms. 
He is a false god to them.

The fact is that there are literally scores of religions --- ancient, 
modern, from east and west and north and south --- which believe or 
did believe in literally hundreds of gods. 

So when you talk about God, what are you referring to? Which God of 
what religion?

And what is totally unclear to me is your position concerning 
religions in general.

Do you believe all religions are equally true? Or are some religions 
superior to others. In previous posts you have made certain comments 
about Buddhism or Jainism which make me wonder how you really view 
different religions and if you believe as some Theosophists do that 
all religions are equal and all are legitimate paths.

And do you believe each religion has an exoteric and also an esoteric 
side?

Or when a certain religion or holy book of that religion speaks of 
God in various ways, a relevant question to ask is:

Should I take the description as literally true? Or is it to be 
taken in some symbolic way or sense? Or in some more mystical or 
spiritual sense?

Do you, for example, believe there was actually a physical Garden of 
Eden somewhere in the Middle East where the "Lord God" created Adam 
and Eve? 

I assure you that there are millions of Christians who accept that 
story in a literal sense. I have even asked some Christians when 
they have told me they believe in a real physical Garden of Eden, 
if I could go back in a timemachine to the Garden of Eden, could 
I have taken pictures with a camera of the 2 trees in the midst of 
the garden? Could I have taken pictures of God actually forming Adam 
and Eve out of the earth? And I have been assured by some of them 
that yes, it literally and physically happened that way and yes 
pictures could have been taken! Now of course some Christians when 
pressed about this, will say well maybe it is a figurative or 
symbolic story but when pressed they aren't sure what it really 
means....

Do some Hindu or do even you believe that Vishnu actually rests and 
slumbers on the serpent Ananta? Or is that an allegory, or simply 
a "myth" not to be taken so literally?

My point: we have to decide how we interpret (whether literally 
or symbolically or in some other way) these stories and also the 
descriptions of "God" given in the various holy books and myths of 
diverse religions of the world whether they be of the Incas, or of 
the Eskimos, of the Hindu or Christians or Mesopotamians, etc. etc. 

And my second point is that when we speak of "God" we are bringing up 
a very very complex subject!!

Daniel
http://hpb.cc


 

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