Theos-Talk Archives (August 2008 Message tt00030)

Raquel,
   Thanks for your reply and the excellent links, I have placed them in my favorites after reading them I may download the Book. 

   The Form that I posted on the Socratic Structure is an extracted form from "The Parmenides," and "The Eleatic Zeno " of Plato----The Dualistic Hypothesis ---- The Four and Twenty Modes." what I posted was a part and not the entire definition, I posted what were referred to in Scientology as "The Four Flows" these are intimate and integral to Human Communication Process. But they are based upon the actual Study they conducted of the ancient System of Socrates and Plato Analytically and Structurally. These were used in a more complete process during actual "Auditing." It again in a disciplined manner followed the more manifold Self Inspection Process of the the Ancients. A great deal is actually based upon The Teaching of the Yoga Sutra of Patanjali and the above mentioned Platonic and Socratic Process Structure. Patanjali was specific to Dianetics and the Socratic/Platonic Structure was specific to Auditing overall of the Graduated Levels. This is not widely noted because most yo
unger people who took Scientology never studied the East also. But when you do your immediately cognize where it comes from.

the Beginning Propositions are "Four" viz:
1. "IS" ------"IS NOT"
both the above are then inspected according to:
2. "What Happens" if the person or object "Is" or "IS NOT"
Respective of:
Four Conditional Flows:
Self to Self
Self to Others
Others to Others
Others to Self
3. "What Does Not Happen"
(Again respective of  the above following the same process  )
3. "WHAT HAPPENS" and at the same time "DOES NOT HAPPEN"
Respective of  "Is and Is Not and the Four Conditional Flows above.
The "Wheeling" of the above Propositions and Conditionals produce the "Twenty Modes." that are inspected.In the Chart
4. WHAT HAPPENS AND AT THE SAME TIME DOES NOT HAPPEN" 
Relative of  "IS" and "IS NOT"  and the Four Conditional Flows.

Performing the Wheel of the Propositions, Flows, Conditionals them produce what are called the Three Triads .

"The whole form of the "Dialectic" method, which is both Intellectual and Scientific and under which those Four Powers receive the consummate perfection."

"DEFINITIVE"
"DIVISIVE"
"DEMONSTRATIVE"
"ANALYTIC"

( in actual  "AUDITING"  the above are "Wheeled" against the additional elements of the 5 senses, the 52 Perceptics and additional Knowledges)

The Basic Structural Chart above is from a work by other Grant or Gunther I can't remember which from 30 some years back where the Author produces the Outline of the Dialectic Structure.

I hope this is not overly confusing.
Regards,
John








-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Raquel Rodríguez <raquel_rpj@yahoo.es> 
John 
I did not watch the movie myself but I heard long programs at the radio before its opening and also life interviews to the director. He said he had to make a great effort to make this man feel comfortable so he would little by little sprees himself and his private life, like loosing his mother at early age or keeping a wide distance with his sisters fearing to fall in to incest. 
Every thought on his mind looks like a grotesque knot desireful to flare up with a little impulse, which the director could see and push.
Impunity for Nazis it is a unresolved matter for my country. Even though 7000 Spanish where held in to German concentrations camps and more than 4000 died "Vilified by Franco and condemned by Hitler", the drama of this people ,is that after being liberated by the allies, they of course could not go back to their country UNTILL 1975 when Franco died. Their drama was not just not being acknowledged victims by their government but they had to see how their own country became a refuge for their torturous.

Spaniards in the Holocaust: Mauthausen, the Horror on the Danube » Read Now 
by David Wingeate Pike. 447 pgs.
Collections: History, Entire Library 

This important work focuses on the experience of the large Spanish contingent within the Mauthausen concentration camp, one of the least known but most terrible camps in Nazi Germany. Refugees from the repercussions of the Civil War, 7,000 Spanish Republicans were arrested in France by the invading... 
Read More
This important work focuses on the experience of the large Spanish contingent within the Mauthausen concentration camp, one of the least known but most terrible camps in Nazi Germany. Refugees from the repercussions of the Civil War, 7,000 Spanish Republicans were arrested in France by the invading Nazis in the collapse of 1940. A microcosm of the experience of national prisoner communities, their story possesses a unique historical value. No other national group succeeded in placing its members in all the key clerical positions in the SS administration, and no other group managed to hide and save all its basic records.Vilified by Franco and condemned by Hitler, their story makes an outstanding contribution to the literature of the holocaust.

You can see this at
http://www.questia.com/library/religion/concentration-camps.jsp
and
http://www.questia.com/read/107579498?title=Spaniards%20in%20the%20Holocaust%3a%20Mauthausen%2c%20the%20Horror%20on%20the%20Danube


It is now in the year 2008 when Spanish court is seeking the extradition of German criminals from the US to be judged here for the crimes committed.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,370991,00.html

This late postings about "Brainwasing" and this movie toghether I hope can give a good idea about what goes on a tyrant mind to the readers of this forum and lets hope alltoghether such a discusions are not necesary at all anymore. 

About the dialectical structure of the Socratic system ¿where can I read about it?

Warm regards

Raquel

El sáb, 2/8/08, Augoeides-222@comcast.net <Augoeides-222@comcast.net> escribió:

De: Augoeides-222@comcast.net <Augoeides-222@comcast.net>
Asunto: Re: Theos-World Alice A. Bailey and The United Nations - The Word made FLESH!
Para: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Fecha: sábado, 2 agosto, 2008 7:08

Raquel,
Thanks, I have never heard of this Movie, I watched the Trailer and read the
Directors Statement. It looks to be a revealing production. I am going send the
Link around to friends. You know someone mentioned "Brainwashing"
recently here, this Movie I think treats of that subject on many Dynamics from
the individual, families, groups, regions, Nations, and the World. Intimate to
this are the dialectical structure of the Socratic system that existentially
describes the human interaction:

Oneself to Oneself
Oneself to Others
Others to Others
Others to Oneself 

Watching the Fabric of the Nazi Brainwashing along the Dynamics you see it
infect and warp them all in some form or another. Assessing the process by the
use of the above is helpful in my opinion. 

Thanks 

Regards,
John

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Raquel Rodríguez <raquel_rpj@yahoo.es> 
Frank
you migth find this movie very interesting.
The director himself had to admit on a radio interview, on national radio 3 at
94.5 having sometimes a strong desire to run away from this guy and vomit.
Paul Hafner, an ex-officer in the Waffen SS, who now lives in Spain since 1945
and found political protection, first by Franco regime and later by a state that
does not penalty the negation of the Holocaust.
http://www.hafnersparadise.com/index_eng.htm
I recommend to click on the Director statements

Partaking as a soldier in the bombing of Guernica (which inspires the famous
painting of Picasso, El Guernica) during the Spanish civil war 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guernica_%28painting%29
he talks about the affair, laughing like evoking a fond remembrance.
One really wanders what has happened to human mind to get to this twisted point

--- El jue, 31/7/08, Frank Reitemeyer <dzyan@online.de> escribió:

De: Frank Reitemeyer <dzyan@online.de>
Asunto: Re: Theos-World Alice A. Bailey and The United Nations - The Word made
FLESH!
Para: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Fecha: jueves, 31 julio, 2008 1:28

>I didn't care to read Alice Bailey or Annie Besant as they were both
away
>from H.P.B. in my personal view. Annie Besant was a committed Communist
>before she arrived to Theosophy or met Blavatsky. I consider that she knew
>an opportunity to use Theosophy to advance those causes. I never admit that
>Communists can throw away the tenets they hold dear at the drop of the hat.

Interesting, John. You use against Besant the very same argument as the
Nazis. They also claimed that Theosophists teach communism, a Masonic One
World ideology to destroy the natural hierachies of peoples and nations and
races and teach a race intermix as the Marxist Internationale propagates
(especially directed against the British Theosophists in Germany, which are
said to have been sworn to the City of London and the King of England).

Leading Jews and Freemasons like Coudenhove Kalergi had (and still have when
you look at the EU policy) an agenda that the Jews are the master race which
should rule the Europeans, that race intermix with millions of Africans and
Asians, which will they force to immigrate to Europe, will break the will of
the Europeans so that the Jews can easily rule them:
http://balder. org/judea/ Richard-Coudenho ve-Kalergi- Practical- Idealism-
Vienna-1925. php

Gosh, Coudenhove Kalergi, who spreat his racist and inhuman ideology in a
1923 Vienna Masonic magazine and in several books, which are black listed in
all European states (except in the national library of Finland or Sweden, I
guess), has an agenda similar to the The Protocols of the Learned Elders of
Zion - which are said to be a forgery (as Jews say).

But Coudenhove Kalergi really lived and his books where really printed,
although behind the scene there is much done to silence this Jewish pioneer 
publications.
Why?
Could the sheep awake before kosher butchering?

His contemporary big H at the same time proclaimed that mankind must not be
divided in superior and inferior races and that each race has a worth of its
own (they called it Erbeigenart, which is the same as swabhava in Tibetan
Buddhism) and that the peoples should deal brotherly with each other...

And was Besant not rather a Fabian socialist - a kind of social
democratism - than a communist?

>It is sport today to foment hatred of America so what's new?

Many would say it it rather "America" [USA] which bring hatred to the
world
since a longer time. Or rather a little gangster clique which is raised in 
own-run agngster elite universities, to be trained from their teens on to 
lie and steel so that they become the next foreign rule leaders.

Yet there is no room for anti-americanism in theosophy as the TS was founded
to end foreign rules over the nations and a theosophist, who has studied his
ABC, knows well that the normal American is no more guilty for the crimes of
his pseudo-government as any other human being, except for the occult
connection.

Even HPB, when she was forced to US citizenship to get a heritage, was
furious about the gross inmorality in USA in her letters to her sister.
But the USA of today or HPB's day is not the USA of the founding fathers.

Frank

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