Theos-Talk Archives (February 2008 Message tt00294)

To all readers

My views are:

There is - one more - quote from HPB about what will happen in the years after 1975.
I think with an organisation awaiting his arrival as HPB puts it in the below, - one will have to stop believeing it to be the fact, that the number of persons involved in this are more than a few science intellectuals:


"...that during the last quarter of every hundred years an attempt is made by those "Masters," of whom I have spoken, to help on the spiritual progress of Humanity in a marked and definite way. Towards the close of each century you will invariably find that an outpouring or upheaval of spirituality -- or call it mysticism if you prefer -- has taken place. Some one or more persons have appeared in the world as their agents, and a greater or less amount of occult knowledge and teaching has been given out. If you care to do so, you can trace these movements back, century by century, as far as our detailed historical records extend...If the present attempt, in the form of our Society, succeeds better than its predecessors have done, then it will be in existence as an organized, living and healthy body when the time 307 comes for the effort of the XXth century. The general condition of men's minds and hearts will have been improved and purified by the spread of its teachings, and, as I have said, their prejudices and dogmatic illusions will have been, to some extent at least, removed. Not only so, but besides a large and accessible literature ready to men's hands, the next impulse will find a numerous and united body of people ready to welcome the new torch-bearer of Truth. He will find the minds of men prepared for his message, a language ready for him in which to clothe the new truths he brings, an organization awaiting his arrival, which will remove the merely mechanical, material obstacles and difficulties from his path. Think how much one, to whom such an opportunity is given, could accomplish. Measure it by comparison with what the Theosophical Society actually has achieved in the last fourteen years, without any of these advantages and surrounded by hosts of hindrances which would not hamper the new leader. Consider all this, and then tell me whether I am too sanguine when I say that if the Theosophical Society survives and lives true to its mission, to its original impulses through the next hundred years? Tell me, I say, if I go too far in asserting that earth will be a heaven in the twenty-first century in comparison with what it is now! 
(H. P. Blavatsky's book "Key to Theosophy", s. 306-7. English edition, Italics added.)



So HPB said in the above: "Think how much one, to whom such an opportunity is given, could accomplish. Measure it by comparison with what the Theosophical Society actually has achieved in the last fourteen years, without any of these advantages and surrounded by hosts of hindrances which would not hamper the new leader."

So I guess I will just have to disagree with you about the importance of the numbers who receives the message Frank. I think it is not just me, who talk about it. As we can see HPB also did it. A high initiate will exactly be able to deliver a message about truth and theosophy, and will be able to reach thousands and tens of thousands with the proper message.

But of course if you are right a spiritual outpouring coming from the Masters will only affect a very few persons.
Some how I find my self disagreeing with this view.


Frank wrote:
"You stick to much in forms rather than ideas."

I am afraid you misunderstand, what I am talking about.
I am exactly sticking to "ideas" or rather what we call "spiritual impact".
The level of "spiritual impact" are always related to the number of persons affected by the impact.




M. Sufilight

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Frank Reitemeyer 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 10:28 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World - Fools rush in


  Morten,
  I will not disturb your comfort and your conviction that you are right, but 
  to answer your additional question:
  We do not talk about for how many persons the ultimate proofs were given.
  It's just you. To me it's not important. HPB did not write about quantities.
  Important is that this proofs were given.
  I believe this predicted proofs are connected with the guruparampara, which 
  was launched by HPB.
  You may consider the first aim of the TS: To form a nucleus, not to form a 
  crowd as much as possible.

  As to the intellectual and spiritual level: This group of persons obviously 
  cannot be very big, because most people were not fit.
  Not even in the broad Theosophical Movement many theosophists were (and so 
  until today) ready.
  There are lineages within the TM which would even reject that there were 
  other messengers than HPB.
  Most people - including theosophical circles - do not even understand the 
  newspaper.

  So what would they gain when they would hear of a knowledge far advanced 
  from their own point of view?
  So, logically, it could only be few. Even HPB's last book of the Golden 
  rules is dedicated to the few.
  What then about teachings which go beyond that book?
  What does it matter, to how many people the proofs were given?
  I think you simply did not understand my opinion about the Masters plan.

  You stick to much in forms rather than ideas.

  Although only few theosophists may be ready, there may be probably some out 
  there who think about 2075.
  Best
  Frank

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Morten Nymann Olesen
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:56 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World - Fools rush in

  I understand, that I was to be given such an answer to my questions.
  I will rest in comfort, that my views are most likely true.

  You could consider the following questions and then consider why I answered 
  like I did:
  If one is to give others irrefutable proof of Gupta Vidya, who would they 
  be?
  How many persons are we at least talking about? And what kind of proof would 
  be required so we could call it irrefutable?

  M. Sufilight

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Frank Reitemeyer
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:26 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World - Fools rush in

  1.
  Frank wrote:
  "So, from the logic point of view, HPB was refering to her occult successor
  in the Tibeto-Dzyan-transmission line."

  That is not logic. That was not what H. P. Blavatsky said.
  H. P. Blavatsky said: "In Century the Twentieth some disciple more informed,
  and far better fitted, may be sent by the Masters of Wisdom to give final
  and irrefutable proofs that there exists a Science called Gupta-Vidya"

  That is "irrefutable proofs that there exists a Science called Gupta-Vidya".
  This proof would be given by a disciple more informed and far better fitted,
  than who? Logically a person more informed and better fitted Than H. P.
  Blavatsky herself. And that is why such a person much likely would be known
  to the public, and not a person whom only a very few would learn about!
  This is a more likely view than the one you prefer to emphasise.
  What "irrefutable proofs that there exists a Science called Gupta-Vidya" are
  better than to show people it all through action and to be an example to
  tohers?

  -------------------------------

  Morten,
  yes, the disciple would be more informed and better fitted than Blavatsky,
  therefore she could have been meant the 1975 messenger, but rather a chela
  in the gurparampara.
  As you can see, you have missed be point, for I was refering to that logic
  before, the logic which you reject and at the same time you admit it.

  But HPB never said, that and how much this disciple which would be send to
  the West, would be known to the public. That is but your - unbased -
  interpretation, not HPB's meaning.

  She also says nothing about the quantity of people who could learn from it.
  That is your - unbased - interpretation, too.

  And I am sorry to say, that HPB does not say anything about the time frame
  she had in mind. It can be relatively few people from the time of getting
  started, but in the course of time - and Masters think in centuries, a
  mantra GdeP always used - after decades or centuries the quantity could grow
  much from such a nucleus. So, it's but your interpretation, too.

  HPB writes only that this proofs will be given, she gives no time line for
  publication. She hints rather to a time capsule.

  -------------------------------

  2.
  Frank wrote:
  "Sai Baba may be a fine teacher for some people, but he is certainly not
  trained in the Dzyan school and therefore no messenger of the Dzyan and
  Masters and Wisdom and Peace."

  You claim a lot here. Do you know who Sathya Sai Baba is?
  What are you basing your views in the above on?
  Why should your view be given any validity at all?
  -------------------------------

  I claim nothing. I just share my opinion with you.
  My view has only the validity someone gives.
  You are free to believe what you want.
  I do the same.

  Best
  Frank

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