Re: Theos-World - Fools rush in
Feb 22, 2008 12:07 PM
by Morten Nymann Olesen
My views are:
1.
Frank wrote:
"So, from the logic point of view, HPB was refering to her occult successor
in the Tibeto-Dzyan-transmission line."
That is not logic. That was not what H. P. Blavatsky said.
H. P. Blavatsky said: "In Century the Twentieth some disciple more informed, and far better fitted, may be sent by the Masters of Wisdom to give final and irrefutable proofs that there exists a Science called Gupta-Vidya"
That is "irrefutable proofs that there exists a Science called Gupta-Vidya".
This proof would be given by a disciple more informed and far better fitted, than who? Logically a person more informed and better fitted Than H. P. Blavatsky herself. And that is why such a person much likely would be known to the public, and not a person whom only a very few would learn about!
This is a more likely view than the one you prefer to emphasise.
What "irrefutable proofs that there exists a Science called Gupta-Vidya" are better than to show people it all through action and to be an example to tohers?
2.
Frank wrote:
"Sai Baba may be a fine teacher for some people, but he is certainly not
trained in the Dzyan school and therefore no messenger of the Dzyan and
Masters and Wisdom and Peace."
You claim a lot here. Do you know who Sathya Sai Baba is?
What are you basing your views in the above on?
Why should your view be given any validity at all?
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Frank Reitemeyer
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World - Fools rush in
Hi Morten,
I don't think, too, that Burnier oder the Dalai Lama has given the world
irrefutable proofs.
But I don't also think that HPB meant the 1975 messenger.
This would be a little bit illogically, as Mr Spock would say.
There is no reason to believe that the messenger of 1975 is in any wayhigher
than the 1875 messenger was, nor was the 1875 messenger higher than the 1775
messenger.
The century messenger, or the outer messenger, as I call it, is probably
always the same being. At least these messengers are on one and the same
level.
But this is not so in the guruparampara, that is the messengers, that follow
in serial, unbroken succession.
So, from the logic point of view, HPB was refering to her occult successor
in the Tibeto-Dzyan-transmission line.
A messenger in the 2th century, who was able to give irrefutable proofs.
Much of them may even published today.
Katherine Tingley, a tulku, who was always regarded by Purucker as the
highest esotericist of the 20th century, refered several times to a
messenger with outstanding knowledge, higher than hers.
Sai Baba may be a fine teacher for some people, but he is certainly not
trained in the Dzyan school and therefore no messenger of the Dzyan and
Masters and Wisdom and Peace.
Frank
----- Original Message -----
From: Morten Nymann Olesen
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World - Fools rush in
H. P. Blavatsky said in the Secret Doctrine:
"In Century the Twentieth some disciple more informed, and far better
fitted, may be sent by the Masters of Wisdom to give final and irrefutable
proofs that there exists a Science called Gupta-Vidya; and that, like the
once-mysterious sources of the Nile, the source of all religions and
philosophies now known to the world has been for many ages forgotten and
lost to men, but is at last found."
http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume_I.htm
The 1975 messenger was one who would give " irrefutable proofs that there
exists a
Science called Gupta-Vidya".
I do not think, that Dr. Philip Sebastian Percheron, Radha
Burnier, or the Dalai Lama have given the world such proof.
The only one, who comes to my mind, which would in any manner be able to fit
the quote taken from The Secret Doctrine by H. P. Blavatsky is Sathya Sai
Baba. All other candidates are only able to reach this creature to its knees
even if it is a very short
human. Yet, this has only value if Sathya Sai Baba is genuine and not if he
is a false teacher as some persons claims these days.
- - - - - - - Sathya Sai Baba a glimpse behind the curtians - - - - - - -
The following is an excellent place to begin to digest the teachings of
Sathya Sai Baba: www.saibabalinks.org (and when links are misssing also
www.ssso.net , www.saiwisdom.com/saipearls )
Sathya Sai Baba is teaching a doctrine named Purushothama Yoga (Which is in
fact the name of chapter 15 in The Bhagavad Gita).
The word "Purushothama" is from "Purusha" and "Atma". Purusha being the same
as ParaBrahman/Brahman and Atma being the Withness - the Self behind the
ignorant Seeker. Adwaita Vedanta as promoted by Shankararchya teaches: Atma
= Brahman.
Blavatsky taught the same. Sai Baba also.
Both Sai Baba and Theosophy (- Blavatsky) uses the Bhagavad Gita as
important teaching. Blavatsky puts great emphasis on the Upanishads and says
that there isn't much difference between them and Theosophical teachings.
Sai Baba holds the Upanishads in high regard as well as the Bhagavad Gita.
Try this book edited by Al Drucker - an excellent one. Read the Foreword...:
http://www.atmapress.com/saibabagita/index.html
a)
In Sai Baba's book "Vidya Vahini" we have:
"Vidya is the authentic Purushothama Yoga, the Yoga of the Supreme Person
defined in the Gita, the knowledge of the Supreme, The Higher Learning, the
Vidya. This Yoga cannot be bought for money or acquired from friends or
ordered from concerns or companies. It has to be assimilated and won by each
one for oneself, through steady faith and ardent devotion."
http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/askbaba/vidyavahini/vidya05.html (Chapter II)
b) In Sai Baba's book "Prema Vahini" we have:
"Therefore, each individual deed must be full of the spirit of Seva, of
Prema and of Jnana. In other words each group of life's activities must be
saturated with Karma, Bhakthi and Jnana. This is verily the Purushothama
Yoga. It has to be acted in practice, not merely spoken in words, Sadhana
should be done constantly with ever-expanding heart full of Bhakthi and
Jnana. The sweetness of nectar or the Lord's name is the charm of life; the
internal joy derived from the Name is akin to the external joy of the outer
life."
http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/askbaba/premavahini/prema07.html (Prema = Love)
c) Sai Baba's view on Raja Yoga is, that it is a special path - where the
disciple don't need a physical teacher.
d) The interested student of Sai Baba - named Nirmal has made the following
statements from Sai Baba on the future available.
http://www.saibaba.ws/avatar/goldenageofsai.htm
An exceprt:
"Aurobindo on Sri Sathya Sai Baba
Twenty-fourth November, 1926, was the descent of Krishna into the physical.
A power infallible shall lead the thought in earthly hearts, kindle the
Immortal's Fire, even the multitude shall hear the voice! (Sri Aurobindo in
DMSSB, 1. For full references, see bibliography at end of paper.)"
e)
I have in my possesion a rare manuscript / encyclopedia A-Z covering Sathya
Sai Baba's teachings. It was online the Internet for a few years (1997-1999
I think) before it was taken down. It was said that Sai Baba asked Nirmal to
take it down again.
f) --- Sex ---
"The craving and hunger for sex drag you into perdition. Desist from
catering to the tongue and its
greed; do not be a victim of lust or taste. Have Sathwic food and keep the
senses strictly under control.
(SSS, IV, 226) --- i.e. from the book Sathya Sai Speaks volume IV, page 226
(a Sai Baba book compiled I think by K. Nasturi).
g) "Educare is true Education" - Sai Baba on education and books.
http://www.eaisai.com/baba/docs/d011120.html
h) Sai Baba put much emphasis on the Adwaita Vedanta teachings - and the
teachings of the Upanishads.
He has made a small book on 6 philosophical school of India. - Blavatsky
emphasises these schools - and says, that their synthesis is Theosophy. Baba
can be said to do the same - by his version of Purushothama Yoga.
But remember, that Sai Baba's main PHYSICAL audience is the Indian one. The
great Avatars are for certain reasons most often showing themselves in
India. And we westerners wonders why ? Dream on !
i) Sathya Sai Baba also says, that it is Jesus who is burried in Kashmir
under the name Issa.
j) Sathya Sai Baba tells a bit about Buddhism.
http://www.geocities.com/saibababuddha/text.htm
k) Sathya Sai Baba has a different view about Kali Yuga, when compared to H.
P. Blavatsky's teachings.
Sathy Sai Baba also seem to say that the Avatar Krishna was born in year
just about 3710 bc and not 3102 bc.
l) Ice Cubes - a short story about theosophists and non-theosophists
http://www.saibaba.ws/articles1/icecubes.htm
We shall know them on their fruits!
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Frank Reitemeyer
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World - Fools rush in
Cassm could it be, that you already asked me that question one year ago or
so?:-)))
To me the 1975 messenger was the person who followed the policy of HPB.
What do you think, how many persons would fit that critera?
a) Elvis Presley
b) Kojak
c) Luke Skywalker
d) Dalai Lama
e) Radha Burnier
FR
----- Original Message -----
From: Cass Silva
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 1:47 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World - Fools rush in
Frank,
Who was or is the 1975 messenger?
Cass
Frank Reitemeyer <dzyan@online.de> wrote:
Nigel writes:
Mr Schuller (Scheuler) writes in his article `
The Masters and Their Emissaries:
From H.P.B. to Guru Ma and Beyond', "Besides its
three official objects, the mission of the
Theosophical Society was to prepare the world
for the coming of a great spiritual teacher,
expected in the last quarter of the 20th century."
I don't accept this premise to be correct and
don't accept his quote from the Key to Theosophy
as validation of this. Their "mission" or rather,
their "forlorn hope" was to assist in the
alleviating of suffering through the release of
a body of teachings.
------------------------------------------
Frank replies:
There are many more references of HPB to the promise of Tsong-kha-pa, that
the Lodge will send out every century a messenger to the Barbarians, f.e. in
her Collected Writings or the so-called 3rd vol. of The Secret Doctrine.
Other teachers of Theosophy (HPB's successors in the Tibeto-Dzyan
transmission line) also taught positively the coming of an outer messenger
around 1975.
HPB makes also a play about the messenger of 2075.
Even if theosophical teachers did not teach about and worked towards the
1975 messenger - fact is, for all, who have eyes to see - that the 1975
messenger did really come to the West and brought new teachings, although
most "theosophists" - lying in coma - did not recognize him, the majority
until today.
------------------------------------------
Nigel writes:
He writes, "Annie Besant, Blavatsky's successor
as leader of the Theosophical Society."
Madame Blavatsky was never leader of the Theosophical
Society and Dr Besant was therefore not her successor.
This is a mistake which is quite extraordinary unless
he has information to the contrary.
------------------------------------------
Frank replies:
Your are both wrong.
HPB was Leader of the Theosophical Movement, Besant not.
Besant was successor of the President of the Blavatsky Lodge and President
of the European Section and was made O.H. *** on probation *** of the E.S.
Therefore Besant got NOT HPB's occult ring, but only her precipitated copy
of it.
HPB's occult successor was hidden announced by HPB herself as a picture
puzzle
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/40872
What have all the theosophical sects now to say?
------------------------------------------
Nigel writes:
He continues, ".and Charles Webster Leadbeater,
mediator between the Adepts and the Theosophical
Society."
I do not accept this as true for the reasons I have
stated in this forum many times.
------------------------------------------
Frank replies:
Right, Leadbeater was no mediator, but only a medium of the astral world.
His alleged "Masters" are his mayavic ideations, as Hugh Sherman once put it
and have nothing in common wit HPB's Masters.
------------------------------------------
Nigel writes:
He finishes his sentence, ".were directed to implement
this project fifty years in advance."
------------------------------------------
Frank replies:
Idiotic, Besant and Leadbeater finished nothing and not in advance, they
destroyed the TS and made a church of blind believing, flight-from-reason
mental slaves of it (until TODAY thinking is forbidden in the Adyar TS) -
the direct opposition of the Original programme. They did not help one iota
the 1975 messenger. They did all to detroy the work of the Masters.
Besant and Leadbeater are the biggest enemies of Theosophy, besides that
they promoted black-magic anti-Germanism with lies, cant and slander
(whereas all messengers of the Lodge before HPB - like the Count of St.
Germain (as the name shows) and after HPB, including the 1975 messenger,
were German-friendly and opposed judeo-anglo-saxon materialism and
hypocrisy, compare HPB on cant and Carlyle.
Best
Frank
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