Theos-Talk Archives (February 2008 Message tt00290)

Nigel:
Frank, this is right, they ".did not teach about
and worked towards the 1975 messenger."

Frank:
Hi Nigel, not so. Purucker for example taught his pupils about this.
You can even in his published lectures references to it.
Two of his chelas, Iverson Harris and Emmett Small wrote about it in their
magazine The Eclectic Theosophist, coming to the conclusion that under the
real weak condition of the TM most theosophists would not recognize him.

Nigel:
There are indeed numerous references and allusions
to the arrival of a spiritual impetus and sometime
personage in the latter quarter of each century,
but to suggest Madame Blavatsky and her teachers
were deliberately "preparing for this" is factually
wrong unless Mr Schuller, you or others can point
to a quote directly stating this purposeful
readiness and preparation.

Frank:
All the work of the messengers of the Masters is according to a long ranged
plan.
Katherine Tingley quotes a Master on this plan in her ES magazine, saying
that the TS'ies in all cities are but a prepartory work for centuries for
the organization they want in the future.
This logic is self evident even without such a quote. I have this ES
magazine not at hand in the moment, but I know it for sure.

Nigel:
Their work was for the contemporary conditions of
the time and for the great discoveries and desired
mindset of the twentieth century and beyond.
>From my perspective, whilst their work formed part
of a regular cycle of assistance to the beings on
this planet, to suggest they were solely preparing
for, or laying the groundwork for a future "messiah"
type figure is simply not true.

Frank:
Uh, now is see your problem.
No one said that prepartory work was their solely business.
But all they did was within a wider frame of centuries.
Purucker taught always his pupils to have the centuries in mind.
That is what every true messenger of the Lodge will say.

Nigel:
You write, "Your are both wrong.
HPB was Leader of the Theosophical Movement,
Besant not.
Besant was successor of the President of the
Blavatsky Lodge and President of the European
Section and was made O.H. *** on probation ***
of the E.S."

Frank please note, Mr Schuller's quote was,
"Annie Besant, Blavatsky's successor as leader
of the Theosophical Society."

This matter can be seen simply as definition and
fact.

Frank:
I know that Mr Schueler wrote about Leader of the TS.
But I told you that the Leader leads the TM, not the TS.
And that Besant was never Leader.
So you both are wrong.
What is so difficult to understand?

Nigel:
The term leader refers to the person with ultimate
responsibility for the operation of an organisation
or group. The term Theosophical Society in this
context refers to the International Society.
It does not refer to the European section, Blavatsky
Lodge or the movement at large.

Frank:
Right, Schueler did not refer to all that, but I did it and I fear you did
not understand me well.
I told you in contrast which posts HPB held to see what is wrong in your and
Mr Schueler's definition.

Nigel:
Colonel Olcott was clearly and factually the leader
of the Theosophical Society until his death in 1907
and was even urged to acknowledge this in context

Frank:
Never.
Olcott was President of the TS.
He never was Leader, which in German would be Fuehrer.
A Leader leads and a Fuehrer fuehrt.
Olcott never led, because he was a chela and exoteric administrator.
Leader refers to the occult, to the spirit, the heart and the motor of a
movement.
In 1898 Katherine Tingley held the biggest theosophical convention ever in
historical times.
Over 5,000 delegates present in Chicago.
She was elected Leader of the TM for lifetime by this 5,000 delegates and
was with this autocratic responsibility able to save large parts of the TM
from the Jesuits and the destruction work of Besant and Leadbeater.

Nigel:
Had Mr Schuller stated Dr Besant succeeded Madame
Blavatsky as head of the Esoteric Section or
"Eastern School of Theosophy" he would have
been partly correct, although Dr Besant initially
shared this honour with William Quan Judge.

Frank:
Wrong.
Besant succeeded not HPB as O.H., she was made together with Judge joint 
O.H.
Judge was teacher, Besant was pupil. Besant was never made teacher in the 
E.S., she was Recorder of the Teachings, not teacher of the teachings.
Judge was the only occult successor to HPB as she shows herself in her last 
picture.

Nigel:
Dr Besant succeeded Colonel Olcott as leader of
the Theosophical Society.

It is important to me we get facts correct at least
in areas where this is possible.

Frank:
Yes, getting facts correct is important to me, too.
But unfortunately, you are wrong here, too.
As Olcott was never a Leader, Besant could not succeed him as Leader.
He was only exoteric President of the TS (the TS never had a post called 
Leader), therefore she could only succeed him as PTS, although in his last 
days he did not want her.