Theos-Talk Archives (February 2008 Message tt00064)

To all readers

To all readers

My views are:

This e-amil was written because Cass recently wrote email to me at this forum.


In the below are some collected quotes from various theosophical authors. 
Reading the below quotes are giving me and others an understanding of why J. Krishnamurti's teachings was and is today an obstacle and a problem to the teachings as they were given by H. P. Blavatsky.

It is not a short oneliner e-mail so bear with me.


1.
Blavatsky - About the Messiah cult:

MODERN APOSTLES AND PSEUDO-MESSIAHS
"With the spread of the spiritualistic cult, the Messiah craze has vastly increased, and men and women alike have been involved in its whirlpools. Given, a strong desire to reform somehow the religious or social aspect of the world, a personal hatred of certain of its aspects, and a belief in visions and messages, and the result was sure; the "Messiah" arose with a universal panacea for the ills of mankind. If he (very often she) did not make the claim, it was made for him. Carried away by the magnetic force, the eloquence, the courage, the single idea of the apostle pro tem, numbers, for very varied reasons, accepted him or her as the revelator of the hour and of all time. "
........
"To enumerate the various "Messiahs" and their beliefs and works would fill volumes. It is needless. When claims conflict, all, on the face of it, cannot be true. Some have taught less error than others. It is almost the only distinction. And some have had fine powers imperilled and paralysed by leadings they did not understand.
Of one thing, rationally-minded people, apart from Theosophists, may be sure. And that is, service for humanity is its all-sufficient reward; and that empty jars are the most resonant of sound. To know a very little of the philosophy of life, of man's power to redeem wrongs and to teach others, to perceive how to thread the tangled maze of existence on this globe, and to accomplish aught of lasting and spiritual benefit, is to annihilate all desire or thought of posing as a heaven-sent saviour of the people. For a very little self-knowledge is a leveller indeed, and more democratic than the most ultra-radical can desire. The best practical reformers of the outside abuses we have known, such as slavery, deprivation of the rights of woman, legal tyrannies, oppressions of the poor, have never dreamed of posing as Messiahs. Honor, worthless as it is, followed them unsought, for a tree is known by its fruits, and to this day "their works do follow them.""
........
"With the advent of Theosophy, the Messiah-craze surely has had its day, and sees its doom. For if it teaches, or has taught, one thing more plainly than another, it is that the "first shall be last, and the last first." And in the face of genuine spiritual growth, and true illumination, the Theosophist grows in power to most truly befriend and help his fellows, while he becomes the most humble, the most silent, the most guarded of men. 
Saviours to their race, in a sense, have lived and will live. Rarely has one been known. Rare has been the occasion when thus to be known has been either expedient or possible. Therefore, fools alone will rush in "where angels fear to tread.""
http://www.tonh.net/theosofie/hpb_cw_online/articles/v12/y1890_027.htm 



2. 
The Discovery of J. Krishnamurti
Ernest Wood a socalled high-ranking theosophist wrote the following about C. W. Leadbeater and J. Krishnamurti.
It is telling us, that C. W. Leadbeater (CWL) was saying that he knew about the future.


"No Religion Higher than Truth" by Ernest Wood
" One evening, Mr. Leadbeater, on our return to his room after our swim, told me that one of the boys had a remarkable aura. I asked which one, and he said it was the boy named Krishnamurti. I was surprised, for I already knew the boys, as they had been coming to me and to Subrahmanyam in the evenings to help in connection with their school home work, and it was evident that Krishnamurti was not one of the bright students. Then Mr. Leadbeater told me that Krishnamurti would become a great spiritual teacher and a great speaker. I asked, "How great? As great as Mrs. Besant?" He replied, "Much greater." And shortly after that he said that Krishnamurti would be the vehicle for the Lord Maitreya, the coming Teacher, who had inspired Jesus. "
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/his/wood3.html
 
 
3. 
The Meassiah craze by C. W. Leadbeater
"The great purpose of this drawing together is to prepare the way for the coming of the new Messiah, or, as we should say in Theosophical circles, the next advent of the Lord Maitreya, as a great spiritual teacher, bringing a new religion. The time is rapidly approaching when this shall be launched - a teaching which shall unify the other religions, and compared with them shall stand upon a broader basis and keep its purity longer." (C. W. Leadbeater, The Inner Life I, p. 114, written 1911)
http://www.anandgholap.net/Inner_Life_Vol_I-CWL.htm

This is a perfect basis on which to create an emotional cult or sect, where the teachings on Gupta-Vidya are left in the toilet and replaced with a warm CWL bed which fitting could be called "Young Boys".


4.
The Meassiah craze by C. W. Leadbeater
"As to the approaching advent of the Christ and the work which He has to do, you cannot do better than read Mrs. Besant's book on The Changing World. The time of His advent is not far distant, and the very body which He will take is even already born among us."  (C. W. Leadbeater, The Inner Life I, p. 16, written 1911)
http://www.anandgholap.net/Inner_Life_Vol_I-CWL.htm
 
As if C. W. Leadbeater knew this?


4. 
The Changing World and Annice Besant
Here is an uncomplete online version of "The Changing World" by Annie Besant. 

I wonder why this book by Annie Besant are kept away from the public view?


5.
LET UNDERSTANDING BE THE LAW ( by J. Krishnamurti )
"Do not use me as an authority, do not say that Krishnamurti disapproves of ceremonies. I neither approve nor disapprove."
http://jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1928-let-understanding-be-the-law/jiddu-krishnamurti-let-understanding-be-the-law-02.php
 
"I know that which I am; I know my purpose in life because I am Life itself without name, without limitation. And because I am Life I would urge you to worship that Life, not in this form that is Krishnamurti but the Life which dwells in each one of you. Put aside all the paraphernalia of beliefs, religions and ceremonies, and you will find the Truth."
http://jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1928-let-understanding-be-the-law/jiddu-krishnamurti-let-understanding-be-the-law-07.php
 
 
6. 
J. Krishnamurti's rejection of the theosophical teachings
In the Star Bulletin August 1931, Page 7 - J. Krishnamurti says:
" So I have made it prefectly clear that what is generally believed by the Christian, the Theosophist, the Hindu, the Buddhist to be Truth, has nothing in common with what I say"
(Star Bulletin 1931 as Ebook at Google)

 

7.
J. Krishnamurti  calling himself a Messiah
J. Krishnamurti went so far as to putting himself extremely far above the one he communicated with.

LET UNDERSTANDING BE THE LAW ( by J. Krishnamurti - 1928 )
"I am not concerned with societies, with religions, with dogmas, but I am concerned with life, because I am Life. You do not want life and the fulfilment of life which is the Truth, but a passing shade of comfort either in this organization or in another, and sweet words and smooth ideas are sufficient for your small understanding. So, friend, by these things you are held. Because you place organizations before life, the authority of another before life, the sayings of another before life, you are caught and strangled."
..... a short while later....
"I know that which I am; I know my purpose in life because I am Life itself without name, without limitation. And because I am Life I would urge you to worship that Life, not in this form that is Krishnamurti but the Life which dwells in each one of you."
http://jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1928-let-understanding-be-the-law/jiddu-krishnamurti-let-understanding-be-the-law-07.php  


I could say: What a clumsy load of bullshit that philosopher is flodding us with.
No way. I wil certainly not worship such a line of communication.

"And because I am Life I would urge you to worship that Life" and bla. bla. His use of words are way out of line. He could have explained it quite differently. It is clumsy and almost selfish what he is doing.
And because the little stupid beginner Seekers do not know what to do, they will do it in the wrong way anyhow and go and think he is a Messiah. (Just like at the followers of this unwisely promoted and self-promoted Messiah J. Krishnamurti do it today.) That is why his use of words are wrong!
 
But, the fact is also, that sometimes he says som very profound truths about life. But the above kind of drivel, we cannot and will not agree upon. Me and my friends, that is. As if I ever had one, they are all deserting my and start to tell me to follow this J. Krishnamurti. Well, I guess, I have deserved it all.


8.
C. W. Leadbeater and Annie Besant was told by The Maitreya to build LCC!?
But it would perhaps be helpful to read the followng article. I would like to know what you think about its content.
 
Here are a few exceprts:

THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH
"A number of letters sent by C.W. Leadbeater, then living in Sydney, to Annie Besant, President of The Theosophical Society, at Adyar, between 1916 and 1920 are concerned with the 'Lord Maitreya' and the Liberal Catholic Church, which was then being founded. These have but recently come to my knowledge.
 
The claim of the Liberal Catholic Church for support from Fellows of The Theosophical Society was based on the belief, expressed in this correspondence, that the World Teacher, the Lord Maitreya, had 'brought it into being' and 'approved' its liturgy. Mrs Besant accepted the information in good faith and announced the founding. A letter dated April 7, 1920 contains the following:"
.......

"In 1909 onwards: Krishnamurti was found by Leadbeater clairvoyantly, as he similarly discovered a number of other outstanding young people both before that time and after. Then Krishnamurti was adopted by Annie Besant. This was followed some years later by the announcement of the Coming of the World Teacher. The Star campaign was opened, and a monthly magazine, Herald of the Star, was launched. There was general acceptance among members of The Theosophical Society of the Coming and Krishnamurti was named as the Chosen Vehicle, privately at first and publicly later. Great activity ensued in many Sections: a stadium was built near Sydney; in Holland a castle with 5,000 acres was given, a camp was formed and much money spent on improvements; in California the Happy Valley estate was purchased for the future.

1912: Annie Besant entered Indian politics to assist the aim of Dominion Status. She shut off her clairvoyant faculties and inner contacts.

1916-20: Letters from Leadbeater to Mrs Besant announcing founding of Liberal Catholic Church with approval of 'the World Teacher', who had also approved the liturgy. This was accepted and endorsed by her.

1925: At the Holland Camp Mrs Besant announced the initiation of several Arhats-all to assist the Coming of the World Teacher.

1928-29: Krishnamurti withdrew from The Theosophical Society and from all connection with the Star activities, renouncing everything.

1930: I had my last interview with Annie Besant. Everything connected with the Coming closed down. The castle and land in Holland were returned to the donor; the Sydney stadium was sold; Star shops were closed, etc."
.......

"Krishnamurti on 'The Beloved'

It is appropriate to give here an extract from Who Brings the Truth? by J. Krishnamurti, published in 1927.

When I was a small boy I used to see Sri Krishna, with the flute, as he is pictured by the Hindus, because my mother was a devotee of Sri Krishna. She used to talk to me about Sir Krishna, and hence I created an image in my mind of Sri Krishna, with the flute, with all the devotion, all the love, all the songs, all the delight - you have no idea what a tremendous thing that is for the boys and girls of India. When I grew older and met with Bishop Leadbeater and The Theosophical Society, I began to see the Master K.H. - again in the form which was put before me, the reality from their point of view - and hence the Master K.H. was to me the end. Later on, as I grew, I began to see the Lord Maitreya. That was two years ago, and I saw him then constantly in the form put before me ... It has been a struggle all the time to find the Truth, because I was not satisfied by the authority of another, or the imposition of another, or the enticement of another; I wanted to discover for myself and naturally I had to go through sufferings to find out. Now lately, it has been the Buddha whom I have been seeing, and it has been my delight and my glory to be with him.

I have been asked what I mean by 'the Beloved' - I will give a meaning, an explanation, which you will interpret as you please. To me it is all: it is Sri Krishna, it is the Master K.H., it is the Lord Maitreya, it is the Buddha, and yet it is beyond all these forms. What does it matter what name you give?

'The Beloved' of Krishnamurti appears to be identical with H.P.B's 'Ever-Present God - the Divine Plenum', referred to on page 14."

http://www.theosophical.ca/NoReligion.htm (1963)


9.
AN APPRECIATION OF C. W. LEADBEATER By Geoffrey Hodson
"As I have elsewhere written, I attended several of the Star Camps in Holland and
was present when there was evidence of remarkable, if brief, supernormal
manifestations. On more than one occasion some two thousand people from many
parts of the world were gathered at Ommen to hear Krishnamurti. Each evening, all
were seated in concentric circles round a large camp fire. Krishnamurti would arrive,
take his place for a time, and then rise and apply a torch to the camp fire. As the
flames arose against the evening sky he would chant a mantram to the god Agni, and
return to his seat. Thereafter he would begin to speak, and on more than one occasion
a noticeable change took place in him. His voice altered and his hitherto rather
iconoclastic utterances gave way to a wonderful tenderness of expression and thought
which induced in those present an elevation of consciousness. The Talks were
followed by prolonged meditative silences. Many of those present, myself among
them, bore testimony to the sense of divine peace which had descended, to a
realization of the Presence of the Lord, and to an assurance that the prophecy had
begun to be fulfilled.
These phenomena occurred during some few successive years, the events being so
marked that Krishnamurti himself thereafter changed the Objects of the Order of the
Star in the East from, in effect, "To prepare for the coming of the Lord" to "To serve
the World Teacher now that He is in our midst." I, myself, more than once heard
Krishnamurti affirm that the great Teacher was now here and that the "Coming" had
actually occurred. Even now when he is speaking, with others I discern a spiritual
influence emanating from him, as if a great Being were still using him as a vehicle.
This, however, does not constitute a complete fulfillment of the original prophecy. "
www.theosophical.org/resources/articles/AppreciationofCWL.pdf  (written around 1965)


10.
Extract from an Order of the Star in the East pamphlet (from 1927!?)
" * 1. I believe that a Great Teacher will soon appear in the world, and I wish so to live now that I may be worthy to know Him when He comes.
* 2. I shall try, therefore, to keep Him in my mind always, and to do in His name, and therefore to the best of my ability, all the work which comes to me in my daily occupations.
* 3. As far as my ordinary duties allow, I shall endeavour to devote a portion of my time each day to some definite work which may help to prepare for His coming.
* 4. I shall seek to make Devotion, Steadfastness and Gentleness prominent characteristics of my daily life.
* 5. I shall try to begin and end each day with a short period devoted to the asking of His blessing upon all that I try to do for Him and in His name.
* 6. I regard it as my special duty to try to recognise and reverence greatness in whomsoever shown, and to strive to co-operate, as far as I can, with those whom I feel to be spiritually my superiors. "
....
"Students of occultism will be well aware of the importance of any highly magnetized Centre, in the physical world, which can be used by the Directing Powers behind human evolution as a focus for the sending down and distribution of spiritual forces. Of such specially magnetized Centres the Order now has four. The oldest established is at Adyar, Madras, India, which, as headquarters of the world-wide Theosophical movement for the past forty-five years, is a unique focus of spiritual life-energies, strongly linked up with the vital currents flowing from the great Occult Hierarchy. The Theosophical Society has for several years offered unofficial hospitality to the Order of the Star at Adyar. Last December, however, this hospitality was given an official character, and on the 28th of that month the foundation stone of a Star Headquarters was laid with full masonic honours. It is hoped that the building will arise ere long. When it is completed it will be the official Headquarters for Asia. In addition, it will contain the office of the General Secretary-Treasurer and will house the Star activities. In time, too, it is hoped to establish there a central Star Library."
....

"By following blindly we are apt to create a new religion or sect and that is the last thing we desire. 
In my Messages I try to express my own ideas, my own particular way of looking at life, and they may be the Master's words or they may not; in this respect members must use their own judgment. 

My Messages are only meant to serve as a guide along the road, but they are certainly not the Path itself. You must yourselves become the Path, before you can really tread it. 

J. Krishnamurti "
http://www.tphta.ws/TPH_OSED.HTM

Here are a few an excellent and quite telling photos.
http://www.viewimages.com/Search.aspx?mid=2634311&epmid=1&partner=Google
http://www.jamd.com/search?text=Annie%20Besant&partner=images.google.dk&epmid=1

- - - - - - - 
A few comments and views of my own:
When J. Krishnamurti allowed himself to be promoted like this and allowed Annie besant to declare that he J. Krishnamurti og Krishnaji was the awaited Maiterya and Coming, he did work against the theosophical teachings. The fact that Geoffrey Hodson refer to J. Krishnamurti promoting that the Coming has taken place is telling!

I will conclude, that one aught to know people on their fruits. J. Krishnamurti's greatest fruit was that he together with Annie Besant and C. W. Leadbeater created a teaching based on Messaih craze, a teaching which H. P. Blavatsky clearly was against. A teaching which H. P. Blavatsky clearly was against in her above article MODERN APOSTLES AND PSEUDO-MESSIAHS, 1890.

An short quote aught to be repeated:
"To know a very little of the philosophy of life, of man's power to redeem wrongs and to teach others, to perceive how to thread the tangled maze of existence on this globe, and to accomplish aught of lasting and spiritual benefit, is to annihilate all desire or thought of posing as a heaven-sent saviour of the people."

We shall know them on their fruits. H. P. Blavatsky said that the messenger, (not a word about an Avatar), which might be send by the Masters would arrive during the last quarter of the 20th century, and not the first quarter of the 20th century. Further she stated that such a teacher would give clear evidence on the teachings of Gupta Vidya. If it is evidence to merely hold lectures about a pseudo-Adwaita doctrine, I would be allright. But it is certainly not evidence at all. Comparing the present day Sathya Sai Baba with J. Krishnamurti is telling me, that J. Krishnamurti was not really on a very high level of consciousness. Not that I am saying that Sathya Sai Baba is on the level of an Avatar. No I am not saying that, but I wonder what level it is.

There is today not doubt in my mind about that the Messiah craze composed by C. W. Leadbeater, Annie Besant and later by J. Krishnamurti himself was WRONG. J. Krihsnmaurti, who during his whole life as far as I am aware NEVER offficially mentioned the mistake he did in promoting himself like a Messiah in The Order of the Star in East for a period of at least four years. That is why I find his teachings an obstacle to the ones given by H. P. Blavatsky.

These were just my views.

- - - - - - - 
 
A theosophist wrote:
In all the communications from the Masters, in the period 1880-8, they object to the use of the word "God", as a designation to describe the Ultimate Reality, the Root Cause, the Substratum, which is the basis of the universe and the Primary Cause of everything. Because, as can be seen everywhere, the word God at once connotes a Personal God, that is, a Creator, a Manipulator of the universe, who is imaged in a human form (though he may have many heads and arms as in Hindu images). Once the Ultimate Reality is so personalized, the next invariable result is to offer prayers to him, asking him for benefits or for exemption from the operation of his own laws.



M. Sufilight



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