Theos-Talk Archives (October 2007 Message tt00066)

Hello Frank,

I am not either unsatisfied or satisfied with Prof Laur's findings 
and remain open to any new information. As I am far for being an 
expert in genealogy and not in a position and willing to spent time 
for this research I do rely on data furnished by Boris de Zirkoff and 
all that available online. I think that interesting source on this 
account is also Alexis Dolgorukii's article: 
http://www.parascience.org/suborn.htm

In my comment I just tried to analyze what is said in your article 
and exposed critical information represented. And in my opinion the 
finding that - no information to be found that there exists any
relationship between Axel von Hahn (and therewith with Helena) and 
the two brothers Friedrich August and Otto Karl von Hahn ? does not 
say much about Helena's father parentage - or I am not seeing the 
point.

Then, I find the statement that - present data were achieved 
with "clairvoyant experiences" (of Peter von Hahn together with his 
daughter Helena) ? an assumption as I never heard or read about such 
seances and their findings before.

Again, I find the statement - To have a career within the Russian 
hierarchy the von Hahns had to downplay their Germanity ? to 
contradict available historical data. Please see wikipedia's article 
on Catherine the Great: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_the_Great and her manifesto 
with the data of German emigrations in Ukraine: 
http://members.aol.com/jktsn/manifest.htm

In my view, if there is any Russian aversion towards Germans present 
it has to be of more recent data and because of incidents during the 
WW I and II when majority of these German emigrants took very active 
role in Austrian and German occupation and cruelty against civil 
Russian population. Please se: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WW_I#Ukrainian_oppression
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WW_II#Soviet-German_War

There was similar situation also on the territory of former 
Yugoslavia and especially in Slovenia. For instance, both my father's 
and my mother's families were, as having strong Slovenian national 
feelings, deported in Serbia and their property confiscated; and our 
nation was doomed to extinction.

Nevertheless, I don't nurture any bad feelings towards German nation 
and do have deep respect of its enormous contribution to world's 
philosophic, scientific, art and crafts heritage, but I feel some 
inner warning when I see a research being influenced by excessive 
German patriotism.

Therefore, I find the message title - biographical unreliabilities - 
being without well founded basis and the fact that I wasn't contacted 
or addressed personally as sign of unconstructive attitude. But I do 
have respect for your endeavors to discover new facts which would 
bring more clearness to the history of the theosophical movement.

Thanks and best regards,
Anton


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Reitemeyer" <dzyan@...> 
wrote:
>
> Anton,
> I understand that you are not much satisfied with Prof. Laur's 
findings.
> He should have been found more.
> He has the negative proof that in the still existing Hahn family 
books there 
> is no entry of  a Peter von Hahn or Helena von Hahn.
> Further he found out that some relatives do also not exist and that 
> therefore Boris de Zirkoff is no relative of Blavatsky.
> 
> To my humble self this are indeed new information. I have never 
read it 
> before in any Blavatsky biography over the last 100 years.
> Why is this information not new to you? What are your sources?
> 
> Your comment surprises me a little bit, as I have a little overlook 
of all 
> the writings about Blavatsky.
> Frank
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Anton Rozman
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 8:41 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World To Frank: Boris de Zirkoff -- biographical 
> unreliabilities
> 
> 
> Hi Frank,
> 
> The article you bring forward begins with promising words that Prof.
> Laur . discovered some new facts .
> 
> But then we can read that . problematic is the lack of, or even
> wrong, information of her paternal heritage . information is missing
> about Helena's grand-parents . no information to be found that there
> exists any relationship between Axel von Hahn (and therewith with
> Helena) and the two brothers . he did not find any proof that Helena
> was related to these Hahn families .
> 
> So, the only new "related" facts Prof. Laur discovered are . correct
> names of Feodor and Karl have been identified as Friedrich August
> (Fedor Avgustovic) and Otto Karl (also: Carl August) (Avgustovic) 
von
> Hahn . and that . no information to be found that there exists any
> relationship between Axel von Hahn (and therewith with Helena) and
> the two brothers Friedrich August and Otto Karl von Hahn.
> 
> Prof. Laur then assumes that . To have a career within the Russian
> hierarchy the von Hahns had to downplay their Germanity, and
> consequently, needed information on the ancestry of Helena's father
> (Peter von Hahn, 1798-1873) had been lost .
> 
> and further assumes that present data were achieved with
> . "clairvoyant experiences" (of Peter von Hahn together with his
> daughter Helena).
> 
> and concludes that . it is to be regretted that 115 years after the
> death of Helena Blavatsky no more information about her German
> ancestors is available.
> 
> So, I can only say that I wish to Prof. Laur all the best in his
> further patriotic research.
> 
> Warmest regards,
> Other
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Reitemeyer" <dzyan@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Daniel, with permission of the editors of the FOHAT magazine I 
post
> below my review of Prof. Laur's findings.
> >
> > FOHAT has published it recently online at:
> >
> > http://www.theosophycanada.com/fohat_HPB_Geneology.html
> >
> >
> > I have not Dara's recent email address. Please forward it to her 
or
> please give me her email address.
> >
> > I would like to hear her comment - and yours (and others), too.
> >
> > Frank
>