Theos-Talk Archives (October 2007 Message tt00054)

 If you are interested in how consciousness works, please read my comments below and let me know if I've explained the ideas clearly enough.  If not, please point out where it needs further clarification.  Thank You , Lenny


-----Original Message-----
From: Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@aol.com>
To: jcs-online@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 6:55 pm
Subject: [Mind and Brain] Re: [jcs-online] Re:On Information

Roger Frost wrote:









>
> RF:
> On the contrary, the wide explanatory gap between objectivity and
> subjectivity which you and I guess Dave Chalmers and others refer to
> is strongly linked to the way you have awareness partitioned, which
> is to say, bound into the paradigm you are running.   A rather simple
> analysis ought to inform you that there is a big need to work this
> stuff through  from a different paradigmatic basis. And only then
> will the sense be seen.   That is,  we face a paradigmatic problem.

Yes, and as I see it, the problem is the current scientific paradigm  
that starts out with the basic assumption that matter is primary, and is the 
root cause of everything -- including consciousness.

>
> Prying our grasping fingers off the security seemingly provided by
> the "objectivity and subjectivity", which is sort of like biting the
> bullet and leaving the Cartesian womb,  the simple fact is that what
> we recognize in the old paradigm as "objectivity", in the new
> paradigm is  just a (typically) highly repeatable form of
> subjectivity.  So, once this fact is noted, the so-called explanatory
> gap disappears.  We have subjective experience.  Some of it is
> intensely repeatable and as a matter of expediency and convenience we
> somehow learned to label and categorize the highly repeating stuff as
> "objective experience".  It's "good enough"  and obviously effective
> for most "everyday living" -- particularly  back in the day when  the
> ice caps and atmosphere were thicker.
>
> But when it comes to really honing in on the details in order to
> actually make needed adjustments to the paradigm,  the
> misunderstanding needs to be revealed and the more general (and more
> correct) definition must be taken into account.

I think you may have misunderstood what I meant by the "explanatory gap between 
subjectivity and objectivity" -- possibly by assuming that "objectivity" 
referred to the experience itself.  Actually I was referring to the objective 
(i.e., physical) world that is the subject of the experience. The word 
"subjectivity" referred simply to the awareness of the experience.  The 
explanatory gap is the so far unexplained origin or source of the singular 
quality of awareness, as well as the origin of the multiple quantities of 
matter.  Neither of which can be proven to be an epiphenomena of the other.

Therefore, whatever a new paradigm of science is to explain would have  to be 
based on the assumption that the noumena or root of both  subjectivity and 
objectivity could be, fundamentally, independent aspects of the absolute 
eternal SPACE (whatever IT is) underlying the  entire space-time continuum.  My 
logical assumption, then, as the  basis of such a new paradigm, is that this 
primal SPACE has to be the  root of the ubiquitous ZPE fields (in the Planck 
vacuum) that  generates, empowers and maintains the different quantum particle- 
waves -- as well as also being the source of individual nonlocal  consciousness 
(awareness, will, etc.) -- which requires a zero-point  static reference so as 
to distinguish the relative and subtle  differences between individual sensory 
frequency-volume experiences  -- such as shades and tints of color, musical 
tones, timbres , etc..   And also must be the origin of the subtly directed and 
controlled intent that releases the force of will from the surrounding spin 
momentum source of ZPE to carry out an appropriate responsive physical action 
guided by the experience. For example the subtle and precise movement of the 
body with exact reference to particular points (which may be in motion) in the 
3D visual space.  This perfect coordination between internal mind-memory and 
external physical fields, could only be accomplished if all information of 
consciousness were carried as modulated wave interference patterns on  the 
surfaces of spherical coenergetic electromagnetic fields that are  coadunate 
with each other.


>> All that the "stream of informations" can be, apparently, is the  
>> *cause*
>> of the conscious experience at each sensory receptor or mental image
>> perceiver -- but not the actual experience itself.
>
> Let's say we've got a simple system that is built up on the formation
> of  transitory molecular structures,  let's say, chains of water
> molecules formed at every cellular respiration sites.  And lets say
> these chains can be formed to torque is one direction or another,  or
> to promote formation of a nearby sol or gel.  And, let's say with one
> torque, that (typically) induces a flight action whereas another
> torque induces the fight expression.
>
> Then construct a similar system that's a bit offset, lagging but
> geared to the primary molecular torques, and perhaps another and  
> another.
>
> It's one of the secondary levels that send the shorthand signal
> pointing toward what we like to think about as "objective".    What
> we are really talking about is recognizing and labelling a highly
> repeating experience. We sort of understand it. Don't put energy into
> watching it.   It doesn't have to be watched as carefully as [..]. It
> can be tuned into or dispatched to  something akin to the autonomous
> awareness.
>
> So then, to return to your proposal,  in an adjusted paradigmatic
> system,  are you suggesting the molecular torques  are not experience?

Much too complicated a system... And the assumption that torques alone could be 
"experiences" is unwarranted, since there has to be subjectively aware detector 
of those torques to experience the subtle differences in their qualia.  I think 
that in my proposed paradigm, the idea that the experience is caused by the 
differing frequency modulated image information, carried as wave interference 
patterns on the surfaces of the coenergetic electrodynamic brain-mind and memory 
fields that are resonant through the ZPE fields and detected as varying wave 
front pressures, so to speak, by the zero point of absolute primal SPACE at the 
causal center of the ZPE fields -- is far more likely and considerably more 
parsimonious than the assumption that water molecules are the sole medium of the 
information of consciousness and that their molecular torque is the actual 
experience itself or even its cause.

If that were so, then such a paradigm would still have to explain how the 
objective physical phenomena of torque turns into the subjective perception that 
initiates the equally subjective intent to flee or fight.  In the case of the 
electrodynamic paradigm, there is still no identity between the encoded 
information of consciousness (whether efferent in the case of the force of will 
or afferent in the case of awareness) and the experience of awareness or qualia.  
In any event, we still have to differentiate between the experience of 
perception, and the experience of intentional action -- although they both have 
the same basis of information processing and transmission.

>
>> As I see it, the only "material form" that such encoded information
>> of consciousness could have, would be some sort of modulated  
>> energy or
>> wave interference pattern carried by an electrodynamic field, somehow
>> linked to both the brain's neurology and to each of the myriad points
>> of sensory perception throughout the body.
>>
>> Reason tells me that the neural processed EM fields that carry the
>> sensory information could very well be coenergetically  
>> (resonantly) linked to
>> the ubiquitous ZPE fields in the Planck vacuum.  If such would be  
>> the case,
>> non local preceptive consciousness (i.e., awareness, will, qualia,  
>> etc.) could
>> be the inherent subjective nature of the underlying *primal*  
>> spatial (or
>> "hyperspatial" as per string theory) cause of the ZPE fields. This  
>> seems
>> reasonable -- since the storage of information that Hawkings admits
>> is retained in a Black hole could be carried by that near infinite  
>> ZPE in the
>> "Singularity" at its center.  Since the laws of energy are consistent
>> throughout the universe, why would there be any difference between  
>> the
>> ZPE fields in the Planck "vacuum" (i.e., the empty SPACE  
>> empowering the
>> quantum particles) and the ZPE fields in the centers of black  
>> holes -- or,
>> for that matter, the center of the Cosmic "Singularity" postulated by
>> Einstein in General Relativity?  Also, why would there be any  
>> difference in
>> the material-energy nature of the encoded informationin a black  
>> hole and
>> the encoded information causing conscious perception or  
>> intentional action?
>
> Whether we can get by with trying to understand or express things
> only in terms of electromagnetic fields,   I think, is highly
> questionable.   The way I see it,   while such an expression might
> develop, even after it does  the transmission into action and
> interpersonal communication  is still (always) going to filter
> through and involve the hydrogen-bonded, phase transitory matrix
> mechanics in the water/gel-sol layers at the atomic/molecular level
> of organization.   And, I suspect for a very long time how all of
> these tactile and kinesthetic  lessons will first be learned/taught
> is by fiddling around with the sort of imagery I've used to develop
> this particular perspective and set of expressions.

Nevertheless, no matter what chemical, electrical, mechanical, or other physical 
process intervenes between the sensory input and the conscious (or subconscious) 
experience -- all of it, being a transfer of information encoded as frequency 
modulated wave patterns, must resolve down to fundamental coenergetic (inductive 
resonance) interactions between analogous electrodynamic fields.

In fact, there can be no process, on any level -- from each sub quantum ZPE 
field through the quantum, atomic, molecular, cellular, organic, inorganic, 
stellar, galactic fields -- that isn't *electrodynamic* in fundamental nature.

Thus, from a physics POV, Maxwell-Ampere-Faraday's equations govern ALL physical 
phenomena -- including the processing, storage, transformation and transmission 
of ALL information down to its ultimate retention in the surrounding abstract 
motion (spin momentum) of the ubiquitous zero-point of individual (and cosmic) 
consciousness or unconditioned primal SPACE itself.  Obviously, the infinite 
zero- point spin moments of empty SPACE alone, as the cause of all manifest 
phenomenal matter-energy, is fundamentally electrodynamic in nature... And thus, 
capable of carrying infinite holographically encoded information.  This 
ubiquitousness of such spin-energetic information, would also be the basis of 
the essential holographic nature of the entire universe and everything in it.  
Contrastingly, the empty zero-point of consciousness being subjectively 
sensitive to infinite vibrational frequencies, would be capable of experiencing 
all that information. Thus accounting for the human ability, meditatively or 
drug induced, to experience altered states of consciousness up to experiencing 
the highest level of cosmic information at the primal beginning of this cycle of 
phenomenal universal existence. This is equivalent to the Samadhi or 
enlightenment state of yogic meditation.

Although, I would say that, in our normal state of consciousness, there is a 
distinct separation of retention between universal experiential knowledge 
(wisdom) and transient individual or personal experience or knowledge -- that 
are contradictory.  Unfortunately, very little of the higher universal knowledge 
is available to our lower order physical (personal mind, memory) field of 
consciousness... Although they may be partially available through various 
altered states, or entirely, as explained above.

All of that method of acquisition, storage and transmission of sensory or memory 
information can be externally observed, analogously, in the ubiquitous working 
of all electronic audiovisual media recording, transmission and receiving 
systems, computer- internet-CD-DVD systems, cell phone network systems, 
satellite communication systems, etc. -- up to the macrocosmic storage and 
transformation and transmission of information in and from every galactic 
center's black hole, supernovas and star systems, out the furthest quasar.

And, it can also be observed introspectively by mentally tracing the visual and 
audio systems' optical or mechanical, electrochemical, and radiant EM field 
path, through the body's neurological, physiological and biological systems, and 
noting the transformational processing of their information along the way.

Incidentally, this can easily be done by anyone (after long practice) by means 
of Buddha's vipassana meditation and Patanjali's rajah yoga, or by some more 
intuitive people, through graphically imaginative reasoning.  We can also, by 
such means, similarly observe the path of efferent energy, beginning with the 
intent or will directed toward a specific motor response to a point of sensory 
perception -- such as  motion of a finger to scratch an itch, or the placement 
of the point of a brush on a particular point in a painted image on a canvas 
that is also simultaneously pictured in the mind.  This can only be achieved 
through coenergetic interaction between holographically receptive 
electromagnetic information fields existing at all levels of physical reality 
down to the ether or ZPE fields surrounding every zero-point of consciousness.  
This "ether" being, incidentally, not only the source of sidereal light but also 
the medium of its transmission, as Einstein originally surmised, later denied, 
and eventually reaccepted.  It's also obvious that analogs of light at different 
orders of frequency energy exist on each fractal level or state of consciousness 
corresponding to the initial cosmogenetic fields of my ABC model. What we 
actually experience is higher order light on the mental field level.

Therefore, since everything in the universe stems from the timeless and 
dimensionless "singularity" of primal SPACE that is located everywhere, we must 
conclude that ALL "information" is encoded, stored, transformed and transmitted 
through electrodynamic processes... Light, and other electromagnetic radiation 
being its "carriers."

And, further, since all cosmic as well as individual constructive and 
experiential information must be stored in the fundamental infinite spin 
momentum of every zero-point "singularity" -- no matter where located -- the 
universe is a gigantic hologram... And, all objective information processing, 
storage and transmission, that is ultimately experienced subjectively, rests on 
holographic or universal principles much like those postulated by Pribram, Bohm, 
Pauli, Schrödinger, among others.

I would think, then, that while the "ordered water" could constitute one or more 
stages along the chain of information processing within the wet-ware of the 
brain -- like the neurotransmitters between the synapses, the information they 
(it) transmit(s) is still governed by their (its) fundamental electrodynamic 
field nature.

Therefore, the only way I can see how the information of consciousness could be 
directly detected by each center of perceptive awareness, would be if such 
information is encoded in the wave interference patterns carried by the brain's 
neuromagnetic field and, ultimately, resonantly transmitted (to the zero-point 
of perception) through the higher frequency orders of ZPE fields in the Planck 
space.  This would also apply, in reverse, to the intentionally projected 
will-energy information determining kinetic motional and emotional responses to 
sensory or mental images -- as well as, in the case of binocular vision, to the 
autonomic projection and reflection of coherent ZPE energy necessary to 
holographically reconstruct the wave interference patterns and detect the moving 
color 3D visual image matrix carried by the volatile mind field.  I can't 
imagine any other way for such a relatively instantaneously changing subjective 
experience to occur in time.

>
>
>> All that, if true, would make experiential consciousness a  
>> fundamental
>> property of primal SPACE itself... And, wouldn't that serve as the
>> basis of the new "psycho-physical paradigm of science" suggested by
>> Chalmers to solve the "hard problems"?
>
> Er, does this mean retaining the old paradigm perspective on
> subjective and objective?

Yes, if by the "old paradigm perspective" you mean the ancient wisdom and 
knowledge that considered consciousness or spirit, and substance (or "light 
matter-energy" as we now know) -- as two fundamental and distinct subjective and 
objective aspects of the primal source of everything and everyone.  Of course, 
considering that we also now know there is at least double the amount of "dark 
matter- energy" (and, consequently, excess attractive and repulsive gravity) -- 
we can consider all of that as "God" if we like -- so long as we don't separate 
its consciousness from its body or bodies, so to speak.... With such 
consciousness (i.e., awareness, will, qualia, etc.) phenomenally latent in all 
things other than sentient beings -- where it becomes experientially functional.  
Thus, a form of pantheism, such as Buddha taught, would seem far more logical 
than any other "separate personal creational" theistic beliefs based on literal 
scriptural interpretations or misinterpreted epiphanic experiences or 
"brainstorms".

>
>
>> I hope these questions and possibilities might offer sufficient  
>> food for
>> thought to help us consensually arrive at a consistent theory of
>> consciousness,memory, mind and brain that could serve all
>> scientific disciplines.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Leon Maurer

> It would be nice if it would or could but I think "serving all
> scientific disciplines" may get tricky since the requisite paradigm
> shift  is not something all scientific disciplines embrace with open
> arms.  It may take a year or two to work out the kinks.

All that's needed are a few more scientific breakthroughs -- like some recent 
observations and experiments more or less proving the existence of dark matter, 
axions, tachions, B-E condensates, neutrino mass, cold fusion, ZPE fields, etc. 
-- which, judging by the constantly accelerating discoveries in science, 
shouldn't take much longer before the fundamental fractal involved 
electrodynamic field nature of everything in the cosmos, including holographic 
information, is irrefutably proven (and the disclosers-discoverers win a Nobel 
prize in physics;-) ... Whereupon, all else concerning consciousness and the 
mechanisms of its sensory and memory information processing, storage, 
transmission, detection and experiencing, will soon after become fully 
understood.

At that time, since such a condition of fundamental SPACE indicates the possibly 
relative eternality of all information -- the truths of the ancient Eastern and 
Hermetic philosophies, such as karma and reincarnation, might also be 
realized... Which could radically change and realign the mind set of the world's 
population, their religions, and their motivations.

Be interesting to see how that might work out -- hopefully for the betterment of 
the conditions of mankind.

Best wishes,
Leon Maurer




 


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