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Re: [jcs-online] Re:On Information

Oct 22, 2007 03:56 PM
by Leon Maurer

On Oct 18, 2007, at 10/18/0710:00 PM, Ralph Frost wrote:

On Information

Posted by: "" <

Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:10 am (PST)

This was sent recently to the quantum-mind forum, but I thought it might also be of general interest to all others involved in consciousness studies.

On Oct 16, 2007, at 10/16/075:48 AM, Robin Faichney wrote:

I believe that the concept of physical information has eclipsed the
original applications of Shannon information, which should now be seen
as just particular instances of more general principles. I contend
that intentional information, which can loosely be thought of as
meaning, is always encoded in physical information, which can loosely
be thought of as matter. As with any instance of encoding, of course,
the message is in the mind of the en/decoder. Invoking Wittgenstein's
later theory of meaning, we can say that the meaning or significance
of any physical pattern is its use -- if it has no use, it has no
meaning -- and that meaning is in the mind of the user(s). And to go
just a little further, I suggest that consciousness can be considered
a stream (or streams) of intentional information, encoded in the
physical information of neural processes.
I hope you find this information useful!

It would be if we could determine how and in what form that information is encoded, and what is the nature of the "physical information" of neural
processes that produces the experience of consciousness?  Just to
say that it "IS the consciousness" is not enough -- since there is a wide explanatory gap between objectivity and subjectivity, as there is between
mind and brain.

On the contrary, the wide explanatory gap between objectivity and
subjectivity which you and I guess Dave Chalmers and others refer to
is strongly linked to the way you have awareness partitioned, which
is to say, bound into the paradigm you are running.   A rather simple
analysis ought to inform you that there is a big need to work this
stuff through  from a different paradigmatic basis. And only then
will the sense be seen.   That is,  we face a paradigmatic problem.

Yes, and as I see it, the problem is the current scientific paradigm that starts out with the basic assumption that matter is primary, and is the root cause of everything -- including consciousness.

Prying our grasping fingers off the security seemingly provided by
the "objectivity and subjectivity", which is sort of like biting the
bullet and leaving the Cartesian womb,  the simple fact is that what
we recognize in the old paradigm as "objectivity", in the new
paradigm is  just a (typically) highly repeatable form of
subjectivity.  So, once this fact is noted, the so-called explanatory
gap disappears.  We have subjective experience.  Some of it is
intensely repeatable and as a matter of expediency and convenience we
somehow learned to label and categorize the highly repeating stuff as
"objective experience".  It's "good enough"  and obviously effective
for most "everyday living" -- particularly  back in the day when  the
ice caps and atmosphere were thicker.

But when it comes to really honing in on the details in order to
actually make needed adjustments to the paradigm,  the
misunderstanding needs to be revealed and the more general (and more
correct) definition must be taken into account.

I think you may have misunderstood what I meant by the "explanatory gap between subjectivity and objectvity" -- possibly by assuming that "objectivity" referred to the experience itself. Actualy I was referring to the objective (i.e., physical) world that is the subject of the experience. The word "subjectivity" referred simply to the awareness of the experience. The expantory gap is the so far unexplained origin or source of the singular quality of awareness, as well as the origin of the multiple quantities of matter. Neither of which can be proven to be an epiphenomena of the other.

Therefore, whatever a new pardigm of science is to explain would have to be based on the assumption that the noumena or root of both subjectivity and objectivity could be, fundamentally, independent aspects of the absolute eternal SPACE (whatever IT is) undelying the entire space-time continuum. My logical assumption, then, as the basis of such a new paradigm, is that this primal SPACE has to be the root of the ubiqitous ZPE fields (in the Planck vacuum) that generates, empowers and maintains the different quantum particle- waves -- as well as also being the source of individual nonlocal consciousness (awareness, will, etc.) -- which requires a zero-point static reference so as to distinguish the relative and subtle differences between individual sensory frequency-volume experiences -- such as shades and tints of color, musical tones, timbres , etc.. And also must be the origin of the subtly directed and controlled intent that releases the force of will from the surrounding spin momentum source of ZPE to carry out an appropriate responsive physical action guided by the experience. For example the subtle and precise movement of the body with exact reference to particular points (which may be in motion) in the 3D visual space. This perfect coordination between internal mind-memory and external physical fields, could only be accomplished if all information of consciousness were carried as modulated wave interference patterns on the surfaces of spherical coenergetic electromagnetic fields that are coadunate with each other.

All that the "stream of informations" can be, apparently, is the *cause*
of the conscious experience at each sensory receptor or mental image
perceiver -- but not the actual experience itself.

Let's say we've got a simple system that is built up on the formation
of  transitory molecular structures,  let's say, chains of water
molecules formed at every cellular respiration sites.  And lets say
these chains can be formed to torque is one direction or another,  or
to promote formation of a nearby sol or gel.  And, let's say with one
torque, that (typically) induces a flight action whereas another
torque induces the fight expression.

Then construct a similar system that's a bit offset, lagging but
geared to the primary molecular torques, and perhaps another and another.

It's one of the secondary levels that send the shorthand signal
pointing toward what we like to think about as "objective".    What
we are really talking about is recognizing and labelling a highly
repeating experience. We sort of understand it. Don't put energy into
watching it.   It doesn't have to be watched as carefully as [..]. It
can be tuned into or dispatched to  something akin to the autonomous

So then, to return to your proposal,  in an adjusted paradigmatic
system,  are you suggesting the molecular torques  are not experience?

Much too complicated a system... And the assumption that torques alone could be "experiences" is unwarranted, since there has to be subjectively aware detector of those torques to experience the subtle differences in their qualia. I think that in my proposed paradigm, the idea that the experience is caused by the differing frequency modulated image information, carried as wave interference patterns on the surfaces of the coenergetic electrodynamic brain-mind and memory fields that are resonant through the ZPE fields and detected as varying wave front pressures, so to speak, by the zero point of absolute primal SPACE at the causal center of the ZPE fields -- is far more likely and considerably more parsimonious than the assumption that water molecules are the sole medium of the information of consciousness and that their molecular torque is the actual experience itself or even its cause.

If that were so, then such a paradigm would still have to explain how the objective physical phenomena of torque turns into the subjective perception that initiates the equally subjective intent to flee or fight. In the case of the electrodynamic paradigm, there is still no identity between the encoded information of consciousness (whether efferent in the case of the force of will or afferent in the case of awareness) and the experience of awareness or qualia. In any event, we still have to differentiate between the experience of perception, and the experience of intentional action -- although they both have the same basis of information processing and transmission.

As I see it, the only "material form" that such encoded information
of consciousness could have, would be some sort of modulated energy or
wave interference pattern carried by an electrodynamic field, somehow
linked to both the brain's neurology and to each of the myriad points
of sensory perception throughout the body.

Reason tells me that the neural processed EM fields that carry the
sensory information could very well be coenergetically (resonantly) linked to the ubiquitous ZPE fields in the Planck vacuum. If such would be the case, non local preceptive consciousness (i.e., awareness, will, qualia, etc.) could be the inherent subjective nature of the underlying *primal* spatial (or "hyperspatial" as per string theory) cause of the ZPE fields. This seems
reasonable -- since the storage of information that Hawkings admits
is retained in a Black hole could be carried by that near infinite ZPE in the
"Singularity" at its center.  Since the laws of energy are consistent
throughout the universe, why would there be any difference between the ZPE fields in the Planck "vacuum" (i.e., the empty SPACE empowering the quantum particles) and the ZPE fields in the centers of black holes -- or,
for that matter, the center of the Cosmic "Singularity" postulated by
Einstein in General Relativity? Also, why would there be any difference in the material-energy nature of the encoded informationin a black hole and the encoded information causing conscious perception or intentional action?

Whether we can get by with trying to understand or express things
only in terms of electromagnetic fields,   I think, is highly
questionable.   The way I see it,   while such an expression might
develop, even after it does  the transmission into action and
interpersonal communication  is still (always) going to filter
through and involve the hydrogen-bonded, phase transitory matrix
mechanics in the water/gel-sol layers at the atomic/molecular level
of organization.   And, I suspect for a very long time how all of
these tactile and kinesthetic  lessons will first be learned/taught
is by fiddling around with the sort of imagery I've used to develop
this particular perspective and set of expressions.

Nevertheless, no matter what chemical, electrical, mechanical, or other physical process intervenes between the sensory input and the conscious (or subconscious) experience -- all of it, being a transfer of information encoded as frequency modulated wave patterns, must resolve down to fundamental coenergetic (inductive resonance) interactions between analogous electrodynamic fields.

In fact, there can be no process, on any level -- from each sub quantum ZPE field through the quantum, atomic, molecular, cellular, organic, inorganic, stellar, galactic fields -- that isn't *electrodynamic* in fundamental nature.

Thus, from a physics POV, Maxwell-Ampere-Faraday's equations govern ALL physical phenomena -- including the processing, storage, transformation and transmission of ALL information down to its ultimate retention in the surrounding abstract motion (spin momentum) of the ubiquitous zero-point of individual (and cosmic) consciousness or unconditioned primal SPACE itself. Obviously, the infinite zero- point spin moments of empty SPACE alone, as the cause of all manifest phenomenal matter-energy, is fundamentally electrodynamic in nature... And thus, capable of carrying infinite holographically encoded information. This ubiquitousness of such spin-energetic information, would also be the basis of the essential holographic nature of the entire universe and everything in it. Contrastingly, the empty zero-point of consciousness being subjectively sensitive to infinite vibrational frequencies, would be capable of experiencing all that information. Thus accounting for the human ability, meditatively or drug induced, to experience altered states of consciousness up to experiencing the highest level of cosmic information at the primal beginning of this cycle of phenomenal universal existence. This is equivalent to the Samadhi or enlightenment state of yogic meditation.

Although, I would say that, in our normal state of consciousness, there is a distinct separation of retention between universal experiential knowledge (wisdom) and transient individual or personal experience or knowledge -- that are contradictory. Unfortunately, very little of the higher universal knowledge is available to our lower order physical (personal mind, memory) field of consciousness... Although they may be partially available through various altered states, or entirely, as explained above.

All of that method of acquisition, storage and transmission of sensory or memory information can be externally observed, analogously, in the ubiquitous working of all electronic audiovisual media recording, transmission and receiving systems, computer- internet-CD-DVD systems, cell phone network systems, satellite communication systems, etc. -- up to the macrocosmic storage and transformation and transmission of information in and from every galactic center's black hole, supernovas and star systems, out the furthest quasar.

And, it can also be observed introspectively by mentally tracing the visual and audio systems' optical or mechanical, electrochemical, and radiant EM field path, through the body's neurological, physiological and biological systems, and noting the transformational processing of their information along the way.

Incidentally, this can easily be done by anyone (after long practice) by means of Buddha's vipassana meditation and Patanjali's rajah yoga, or by some more intuitive people, through graphically imaginative reasoning. We can also, by such means, similarly observe the path of efferent energy, beginning with the intent or will directed toward a specific motor response to a point of sensory perception -- such as motion of a finger to scratch an itch, or the placement of the point of a brush on a particular point in a painted image on a canvas that is also simultaneously pictured in the mind. This can only be achieved through coenergetic interaction between holographically receptive electromagnetic information fields existing at all levels of physical reality down to the ether or ZPE fields surrounding every zero-point of consciousness. This "ether" being, incidentally, not only the source of sidereal light but also the medium of its transmission, as Einstein originally surmised, later denied, and eventually reaccepted. It's also obvious that analogs of light at different orders of frequency energy exist on each fractal level or state of consciousness corresponding to the initial cosmogenetic fields of my ABC model. What we actually experience is higher order light on the mental field level.

Therefore, since everything in the universe stems from the timeless and dimensionless "singularity" of primal SPACE that is located everywhere, we must conclude that ALL "information" is encoded, stored, transformed and transmitted through electrodynamic processes... Light, and other electromagnetic radiation being its "carriers."

And, further, since all cosmic as well as individual constructive and experiential information must be stored in the fundamental infinite spin momentum of every zero-point "singularity" -- no matter where located -- the universe is a gigantic hologram... And, all objective information processing, storage and transmission, that is ultimately experienced subjectively, rests on holographic or universal principles much like those postulated by Pribram, Bohm, Pauli, Schrödinger, among others.

I would think, then, that while the "ordered water" could constitute one or more stages along the chain of information processing within the wet-ware of the brain -- like the neurotransmitters between the synapses, the information they (it) transmit(s) is still governed by their (its) fundamental electrodynamic field nature.

Therefore, the only way I can see how the information of consciousness could be directly detected by each center of perceptive awareness, would be if such information is encoded in the wave interference patterns carried by the brain's neuromagnetic field and, ultimately, resonantly transmitted (to the zero-point of perception) through the higher frequency orders of ZPE fields in the Planck space. This would also apply, in reverse, to the intentionally projected will-energy information determining kinetic motional and emotional responses to sensory or mental images -- as well as, in the case of binocular vision, to the autonomic projection and reflection of coherent ZPE energy necessary to holographically reconstruct the wave interference patterns and detect the moving color 3D visual image matrix carried by the volatile mind field. I can't imagine any other way for such a relatively instantaneously changing subjective experience to occur in time.

All that, if true, would make experiential consciousness a fundamental
property of primal SPACE itself... And, wouldn't that serve as the
basis of the new "psycho-physical paradigm of science" suggested by
Chalmers to solve the "hard problems"?

Er, does this mean retaining the old paradigm perspective on
subjective and objective?

Yes, if by the "old paradigm perspective" you mean the ancient wisdom and knowledge that considered consciousness or spirit, and substance (or "light matter-energy" as we now know) -- as two fundamental and distinct subjective and objective aspects of the primal source of everything and everyone. Of course, considering that we also now know there is at least double the amount of "dark matter- energy" (and, consequently, excess attractive and repulsive gravity) -- we can consider all of that as "God" if we like -- so long as we don't separate its consciousness from its body or bodies, so to speak.... With such consciousness (i.e., awareness, will, qualia, etc.) phenomenally latent in all things other than sentient beings -- where it becomes experientially functional. Thus, a form of pantheism, such as Buddha taught, would seem far more logical than any other "separate personal creational" theistic beliefs based on literal scriptural interpretations or misinterpreted epiphanic experiences or "brainstorms".

I hope these questions and possibilities might offer sufficient food for
thought to help us consensually arrive at a consistent theory of
consciousness,memory, mind and brain that could serve all
scientific disciplines.

Leon Maurer

It would be nice if it would or could but I think "serving all
scientific disciplines" may get tricky since the requisite paradigm
shift  is not something all scientific disciplines embrace with open
arms.  It may take a year or two to work out the kinks.

All that's needed are a few more scientific breakthroughs -- like some recent observations and experiments more or less proving the existence of dark matter, axions, tachions, B-E condensates, neutrino mass, cold fusion, ZPE fields, etc. -- which, judging by the constantly accelerating discoveries in science, shouldn't take much longer before the fundamental fractal involved electrodynamic field nature of everything in the cosmos, including holographic information, is irrefutably proven (and the disclosers-discoverers win a Nobel prize in physics;-) ... Whereupon, all else concerning consciousness and the mechanisms of its sensory and memory information processing, storage, transmission, detection and experiencing, will soon after become fully understood.

At that time, since such a condition of fundamental SPACE indicates the possibly relative eternality of all information -- the truths of the ancient Eastern and Hermetic philosophies, such as karma and reincarnation, might also be realized... Which could radically change and realign the mind set of the world's population, their religions, and their motivations.

Be interesting to see how that might work out -- hopefully for the betterment of the conditions of mankind.

Best wishes,
Leon Maurer

One view of cosmogenesis and the fractal roots of everything and everyone:

Best regards,
Ralph Frost    Get a feel for modern science.

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