Theos-Talk Archives (December 2006 Message tt00159)

Daniel,
why don't you stop debating with Carlos?
It is the only way to silence him.

All his hundreds of annoyances show what type of people he is.

You Daniel were always - as far as I have observed it - upholding the esoteric tradition of HPB, Judge, Tingley and Purucker and defending it against the exoteric remodeling in Carlos' jewish ULT fashion.
HPB always condemned the jewish exoteric and materialistic remodeling of the ancient wisdom doctrine, f.e.:

1. "It was Iamblichus who added to it the Egyptian doctrine of Theurgy with its practices, and Porphyry, the Jew, who opposed this new element."
http://www.theosophical.ca/SecDoctrine3C.htm#303

2. "If Porphyry, the Jew Malek, went against Theurgy on account of old traditional recollections, there were other teachers who practised it. Plotinius, Iamblichus, Proclus, were all thaumaturgists..."
http://www.theosophical.ca/SecDoctrine3C.htm#303

Much more could be given. 

A strange sophism to allege that "esoteric" means "for the few"!!! This is of course not the teaching of the theosophical esoteric teachers from HPB down to Purucker.
HPB's esoteric school was publicly announced and everyone was invited to join it and not only the few. Who decides in the ULT who is elect? Is the leader of the ULT a bodhisattva?
HPB meant by "esoteric" rather "with explanation".

As this simply facts are easy to discover for every honest reseacher one wonders why Carlos uninterrupted in hundreds of email annoyances (indeed a second Brigitte) tries to sell us what is easy to proof as untruth?

I don't know his motive for his lies and it concerns me not.

What me concerns is, why you Daniel, continue to debate with him and give him therefore attention which he does not deserve.

Are the theosophists of the 21th Century the blind astral track followers of the old jewish traditional recollections?

Frank

----- Original Message ----- 
From: carlosaveline 
To: theos-talk 
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 8:34 PM
Subject: Theos-World Dissension Archives Online Shows Itself


Daniel,

You are showing what you are, under the appearance of a Blavatsky student.

By rejecting the esoteric tradition as such, by saying that any wisdom tradition which has any degree of secrecy is bad, or fake, you are showing that you are against HPB and against what she standed for. And in so doing you defend exactly the same thesis as Solovyof, as the Coulombs and as the 19th century SPR. They said HPB was a fraud ... because she kept secrecy about some things. 

Yet secrecy is NOT a synonym to fraud, as we know. 

HPB work was about the esoteric tradition. "Esoteric" means "for the few".

Regards, Carlos. 

De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Sun, 03 Dec 2006 16:43:11 -0000

Assunto:Theos-World Tillett: "...too threatening....would have undermined the public claims...."

> Tillett: "...too threatening....
> would have undermined the public claims...."
> 
> Gregory Tillett on the Secrecy of the Dzyan Esoteric School [of the 
> ULT]
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
> 
> On May 20, 2003, I posted on Theos-Talk the following text concerning 
> the secrecy of the Dzyan Esoteric School [of the ULT]. The posting 
> was addressed to the historian Gregory Tillett:
> 
> =================================================
> Gregory, you wrote:
> 
> "The DES . . . remains ONE OF THE GREAT SECRETS of Theosophical
> history. . . . I hope that its history and teachings will be made
> accessible to students of Theosophical history when I complete the
> history of secret societies in the Theosophical movement. . . . But
> the role of the DES has been even greater than that of the Adyar and
> Pt Loma ES groups because it has remained largely 'INVISIBLE'."
> caps added.
> 
> Several students and I have been engaging in several discussions on
> the DES and one question we have is:
> 
> WHY has the DES remained such a GREAT SECRET and so INVISIBLE?
> What has motivated ULT/DES members to be so secretive and guarded
> about even the existence of DES?
> 
> In contrast, HPB publicly announced the formation of the E.S.T.S. in
> the pages of LUCIFER and LUCIFER, THE PATH and THE THEOSOPHIST in the
> late 1880s and 1890s had information from time to time concerning the
> E.S.T.S.
> ==============================================================
> Quoted from: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/12046
> 
> Dr. Tillett replied as follows:
> 
> ==============================================================
> Good question! I can only assume that (i) the ULT placed such
> emphasis on there being no organization, no leadership and no
> authority within the ULT (not, of course, the case in fact) that the
> acknowledgement of an inner group would have been too threatening and
> would have undermined the public claims, and (ii) the existence of a
> secret group that really was kept secret provided greater status for
> the members of it....
> 
> ...It would be good if all the DES documents could be published
> together with a history of this important branch (if we can call it
> that) of the ES tradition within the TS. I have had some interesting
> conversations with ULT "important people" about the DES ....
> no-one has ever denied its existence, but nor have they admitted it.
> Rather like talking with Adyar people about the Egyptian Rite, the
> details and rituals of which should also be published.
> ===========================================================
> Quoted from: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/12057
> 
> Notice Tillett's significant words:
> 
> "...acknowledgement of an inner group would have been TOO THREATENING 
> and would have UNDERMINED THE PUBLIC CLAIMS...." caps added.
> 
> Maybe now in 2006 Gregory could give us more of his thinking about 
> this significant statement that he made in 2003.
> 
> Daniel
> http://hpb.cc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
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