Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt01260)

The 18th century Messengers

I personally can't see any reason to believe that St. Germain was 
Blavatsky's contra part during the 18th century. More are pointing 
at Dr. Franz Anton Mesmer, which had at his side as co-worker, St. 
Germain (Mesmer's "Judge"), Cagliostro (Mesmer's "Olcott", the 
organiser) and initially Chev. Casanova (similar to Crowley in many 
ways, maybe a fallen lay chela). Both the memoirs of Mesmer and 
Casanova are giving some interesting information on this subject, 
and the biographical notes in trial protocol of Cagliostro's as well.

And there is nothing at al, that are pointing in the direction that 
Prince Rakoczi and Count St. Germain was one and the same person. 

Who of al this 18th century occultists, which was (or are today) an 
Adept, I do not dare to say, but some of them was defiantly Chelas 
or Lay Chelas.

Carl

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
<carlosaveline@...> wrote:
>
> Konstantin,
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> It is consensus, see Clara Codd's book for example, that St. 
Germain as 18th century incarnation was not a full Adept. 
> 
> Besides, it is a firm consensus and common knowledge that only 
disciples, and never Adepts, mix with public and political/social 
events in the way St. Germain (or Cagliostro) interfered.
> 
> The reason for that is that an Adept is outside short term human 
karma and he is not willing to go against evolution and go back in 
his path. 
> 
> This is also a key concept to understand the necessary Autonomy of 
the Disciple. 
> 
> In the ML, Masters explain that if Disciples were not Autonomous 
and Responsible for their own actions, the Karma would belong to 
their Teachers, and not to them. 
> 
> Therefore St. Germain, who strongly interacted with political, 
public and social issues, was not an Adept. 
> 
> The incarnation in which an Initiate will get the decisive 
initiation needs to be a new one. Magnetical reasons included. 
> 
> Besides, the Leadbeaterian ritualistic fancies, ascribed to St. 
Germain, clash in substance and content with the Masters' teachings, 
while we know that the Teachings of different Masters never clash 
except in wording. 
> 
> Finally, you can see that the large amount of wild 
ritualisticfancies (including the ER) created by poor Leadbeater and 
ascribed to "St. Germain" were no more than fancies, while  an Adept 
does not do that kind of thing. 
> 
> So,  you see there is a mass of hints and evidences about that. 
> 
> Regards,  Carlos. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Cópia:
> 
> Data:Sun, 26 Nov 2006 17:31:35 -0000
> 
> Assunto:Theos-World Re: St. Germain Not Leadbeaterian, At All
> 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > Rakoczi is a name which also corresponds to the same 
incarnation as 
> > "St. Germain".
> > 
> > As far I know, nor Leadbeater neither any other theosophical 
author 
> > who regards St. Germain an adept, didn't hold an opinion that he 
died 
> > in the end of 18th century.
> > Leadbeater when wrote about 1911 meant certainly the same 
incarnation.
> > 
> > From the other sources we can conclude that St. Germain was an 
adept 
> > already in 18th century, otherwise it would be hard to explain 
how the 
> > old ladies recognized in him a man whom they knew in their 
youth, and 
> > still looking young when they were already old.
> > 
> > So Leadbeater had to need to invent any new names and 
incarnations.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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