Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt01243)

Carlos,

I have said what I have to say on this subject. As I mentioned 
before, I'm not interested in a debate. You are welcome to believe 
whatever you wish and to conduct your life accordingly. I simply want 
to represent alternatives to your opinions for the sake of open study 
of theosophy. 

Adelasie

On 27 Nov 2006 at 10:15, carlosaveline wrote:

> Adelasie,
> 
> We cannot know another's heart?
> 
> Well, in principle, we do know that everyone has a Buddhic principle in his or her heart, OK?
> 
> Yet we react (in one way or another) to people's actions; and before reacting (in one way or another) there is an evaluation, a judgement, of their actions, which is conscious and responsible, or unconscious and irresponsible. 
> 
> We take decisions as to how to act/intereact in life and judgements are necessary for better decisions. 
> 
> You have to choose how to relate to liars and criminals, in society. 
> 
> And Confucius said that when criminals are not punished, then honest people are being punished.  The same thing happens with regard to mistakes or dishonesties smaller than crimes. 
> 
> Therefore, Adelasie, in any list of Paramitas or Qualities needed for spiritual knowledge, you will see Discernment, Viveka;  and also Virya, a higher kind of Courage.  And indifference to personal pain. 
> 
> Do you believe St. Francis of Assis was "uncapable of judging" those who behaved in a treacherous way in his Order? 
> 
> Do you think the XIV Dalai Lama does not have the courage to face treason in his own "priesthood"? 
> 
> Regards,  Carlos. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Cópia:
> 
> Data:Sun, 26 Nov 2006 07:16:34 -0800
> 
> Assunto:Re: Theos-World To Adelasie on Judging
> 
> > Carlos,
> > 
> > As I said, you are welcome to think what you want to think. Karma 
> > will ultimately teach each of us what is true about this subject. 
> > 
> > > But let me ask: how can we explain the popular but false assumption 
> > that it is "unbrotherly and unspiritual" to make evaluations or 
> > judgements 
> > about other people´s actions? 
> > 
> > We simply cannot know another's heart. We cannot know another's 
> > motive. We can judge all we like, but we will very likely be wrong. 
> > We base our judgements of others on what we observe, and what we 
> > observe is a reflection of who and what we are. The actions of others 
> > may seem wrong to us. We may even learn something about human 
> > behavior, about what we choose to emulate or what we choose to avoid, 
> > but ultimately we cannot judge even the actions of others. Where in 
> > theosophical literature does it say otherwise?
> > > 
> > > The origin of that belief may help us understand it. 
> > 
> > "Judge not lest ye be judged," is a bit older than the Spanish 
> > Inquisition. It is a part of the ageless wisdom, the heritage of 
> > humanity, as expressed in the Bible, one of the most occult books of 
> > western civilization.
> > > 
> > > Medieval Christian Church burned thousands of people alive. It not only 
> > judged them but comdemned them to torture followed by death, for the 
> > 
> > crime of thinking for themselves and of questioning established 
> > Opinions. 
> > 
> > It seems that such a condition is a natural result of ignoring the 
> > injunction to "Judge not."
> > > 
> > > Simultaneously, the same Church piously issued the fashionable thesis 
> > and command "do not judge", using it as an unquestionable Christian 
> > rule 
> > to be followed everywhere and at all times by all common people. Of 
> > course, 
> > priesthood alone would be in charge of judging - and condemning.
> > 
> > Sorry, Carlos, but it is just not true that the injunction to not 
> > judge our fellow human beings came from the post-Inquisition 
> > priesthood of the Catholic Church. It's been around a lot longer than 
> > that. When we make judgements about our brothers and sisters we 
> > participate in the heresy of separateness. They are us and we are 
> > them. We only judge ourselves, and too often use the resulting 
> > opinions to punish others for our own iniquities.
> > > 
> > > In fact, though, it is common knowledge that all people make judgements. 
> > Yet many of them - pious and religious as they are - do that in an 
> > unconscious way, because they do not allow themselves to think, 
> > or to really assess the facts and situations, before getting to a 
> > conclusion. 
> > 
> > Exactly.
> > > 
> > > In the New Testament, Jesus paradoxically says: 
> > > 
> > > "Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. And yet if I judge, my judgement
> > is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me". 
> > (John, 8: 15-16.) 
> > > 
> > > "Father" corresponds to "Atma", the true Self, the "parent" of a lower self. 
> > Judgements, id est, evaluations and assessments made in the 
> > presence of 
> > Father Atma will be much better than assessments made "after the 
> > flesh" or 
> > according to appearances and instinctively or automatically. 
> > 
> > The Christos, the Avatar. the First and the Last, the Great 
> > Sacrifice, the Watcher on the Threshhold who will not quit His post 
> > until the last hour of the Manvantara has been rung, may indeed know 
> > more about the inner life of a human being than I do. But he also 
> > says he judges no man. 
> > > 
> > > And this, again, will depend on Antahkarana, one´s ability to listen to 
> > the `voice of the silence´. 
> > 
> > As does all.
> > > 
> > > The prohibition of "judging" is a paralysis of Manas, the mind. 
> > 
> > So here we have a good example of how two diametrically opposed 
> > statements can both be true, depending on one's point of view. I 
> > would say the exact opposite, that judging one's fellow human beings 
> > is a result of paralysis of the faculty of Manas, the mind. 
> > 
> > This 
> > prohibition of thinking is connected to ancient Taboos which Sigmund 
> > 
> > Freud analysed well as he tried to explain modern religiously 
> > dogmatic behaviour. 
> > > 
> > > Surprising as it may be, there are several other important points in which 
> > Freud says the same thing as the Esoteric Philosophy, only under a 
> > scientific 
> > language. He often takes precise photographs of the workings of 
> > lower 
> > quaternary in human beings. 
> > > 
> > > Freud´s book "Totem and Taboo" help us explain the `manasic paralysis´, 
> > or `manasic suspension´, that we can observe in "theological" 
> > operations 
> > and in some pseudo-theosophical circles, as well. The pretext for 
> > that selective 
> > mental paralysis by which people renounce their individual 
> > discernment is 
> > sometimes "having faith"; othertimes oeot judging. 
> > 
> > Faith is a good quality to cultivate. So are trust and acceptance. 
> > It may be confusing to try to disprove the ancient wisdom by means of 
> > Christian methods of debate. Christianity is nearing the end of its 
> > cycle and, although it doubtless did some great good in its time, in 
> > many ways it is now being misused to prove the opposite of the 
> > teachings of its founder, the Master Christ.
> > > 
> > > The management of deep collective unconscious fears is the key for 
> > the efficiency of such authoritarian group prohibitions against the 
> > free 
> > use of thought by "common individuals". 
> > 
> > Indeed, free use of thought such as, "Love ye one another." 
> > 
> > Again please let me say that this is not a debate. You have a right 
> > to think as you do. We all do, and if we are wrong, time and Karma 
> > will show us the error of our ways. But it still seems important to 
> > me to represent what I understand as an alternative to some of the 
> > things you say.
> > 
> > Best wishes,
> > Adelasie.
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente Terra.
> > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite
> > http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?+_u=carlosaveline&_l=1,1164554720.414755.8861.almora.hst.terra.com.br,9570,Des15,Des15
> > 
> > Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra.
> > Scan engine: McAfee VirusScan / Atualizado em 24/11/2006 / Versão: 4.4.00/4904
> > Proteja o seu e-mail Terra: http://mail.terra.com.br/
> > 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>