Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt00382)

Carlos in his posting titled "Krishnamurtians & the Past" writes:

"Of course one can see that for Krishnamurtians the past is void of 
meaning, especially void of lessons, and Ms. Radha has nearly said 
that in her 2006 letter to me, on William Judge and the "Case" 
against him."

But does Carlos agree with the Krishnamurtians about the past?

Is the past void of meaning and ESPECIALLY void of lessons?

I ask this because Carlos in a number of other recent postings seems 
to almost downplay "history".

He writes:

"This is [mere?] History, though interesting."

"The issue for us now is, are we seriously decided to live the 
philosophy of Theosophy in our lives?"

And apparently in reply to my posting concerning the truthfulness of 
8 Theosophical Claims/Statements, Carlos seems to comment almost with 
a sneer (?) ----

"And what about the gossips around the British Royal family?"

"Wouldn't that be more 'fascinating'?"

Does that mean Carlos is not interested in factual history?  Does 
that kind of reply by Carlos mean that the giving of accurate 
historical information is not important to Carlos?  That correct 
historical information about past Theosophical events has little or 
no meaning or relevance to Carlos?

I give readers below 2 quotes to compare and contrast with what 
Carlos has written.  

One quote is from the Master KH and the other is from Walter A. 
Carrithers, Jr., one of the foremost Theosophical historians of 
modern times, who (under his pseudonym Adlai E.  Waterman) 
wrote "OBITUARY:  The Hodgson Report on Madame Blavatsky".

Notice the importance Mr. Carrithers gives to history and the pursuit 
of historical truth.

Quote 1
========================================================
Madmen are they, who, speculating but upon the present, wilfully shut 
their eyes to the past when made already to remain naturally blind to 
the future!
=======================================================
The Mahatma Koot Hoomi


Quote 2
==========================================================
In 1974, on the very eve of this Cycle, this writer observed 
that, "the importance of history is but one degree removed from the 
importance of philosophy itself... Madame Blavatsky's greatest books, 
Isis Unveiled and The Secret Doctrine, are compendiums of history
as much as of philosophy... So, history devoid of fact is myth; just 
as philosophy divorced from action and unjustified by history is no 
better than myth".... 

...In my privately duplicated monograph of 25 December 1977, with 
very limited circulation, "1877-1977: Shambhalha's Fifth 'Centennial 
Effort' Gives Birth to the Sixth," one reads:

"The Message of H.P. Blavatsky was fourfold: Primordial Budhism, The 
Living Ancient Wisdom, expressed in terms of: (1) Philosophy, (2) 
Science, (3) Ethics, and (4) History. The fourth of these has been 
the least appreciated ... And yet, without a solid historical base in 
factual events on this globe, without experiential reality in the 
life of the Human Race - without individuals and groups, -
the 'carriers' and their 'footprints on the sands of time,' their 
beginnings, landmarks, vicissitudes and defeats along the way, up to 
and including the span of H.P.B's Mission, and right down to this 
very day -, the Philosophy, the Science, and the Ethics which 
constitute Occultism (if these could be said to exist at all without 
objective experiences) would be no better than myth... Madame 
Blavatsky sought always to disclose and trace back, step-by-step thru 
clues and facts of known history (by citing a myriad of authorities 
whom scholars could respect), the moral, spritual and intellectual 
roots and runners of the Wisdom-Religion and its arch-Bearers, as are 
to be found imbedded in the annals of historical record ancient and 
modern. This was a most extraordinary departure from the common mode 
of so-called occult teaching..." 

Continuing, in 1977 I maintained that what theosophists had one-and-
all "never guessed, was that the level of wisdom already provided and 
intended by the Chohans of Shambhalha to be [in 1975 and after] the 
one true and only 'installment', one prepared and fitted for this 
present generation and for the new Cycle now underway... was to be 
(and is) something quite different than the expected, an (unforseen) 
Message that is rooted in and springs from history, particularly the 
course of history which runs back 146 years to 1831 and beyond to the 
earliest physical beginnings of preparation for the last Mission from 
the World-Center of Occult Truth (a Mission that was far, far more 
important - to the past that preceded it, to the present, and to the 
future - than ever has been guessed!)." 

The challenge and "task" of delineating this history was seen to 
be "not something that can be approached by anyone beholden to 
organized theosophy or to anyone of its centers; nor can it be 
undertaken for the contrived purpose of aggrandizing some 'successor 
to HPB' or someone living, neither some 'line of succession.' It must 
be an over-view of events such as can be seen only by one 
conscientiously dedicated solely to the truthful defence and 
vindication of HPB and her Brother-Adepts and Their 1875-1891 
Teaching."

And that there are the necessary historical records available to 
assure the success of this task, testifies to the fruitfulness of the 
clash and conflict of opinions on historical matters, as in
the tides of controversy, polemics, attacks and counter-attacks, 
rebuttals, surrebuttals and attempted justifications of beliefs - 
from the Childs-Holmes case and the Coulomb-missionary-
SPR Committee conspiracies, down through the Judge-Besant battle to 
the warring of separate camps of organized theosophy in this century, 
and similar skirmishes unto this day. Each, for party purposes, has 
forced the public disclosure of testimony and privately-held evidence,
sometimes of crucial importance in the pursuit of truth, which 
otherwise would have been ignored and irretrievably lost to history 
and historians. Thus, too, has been provided - as nothing else could -
the necessary grist for "the mills of the gods" in this significant 
last-quarter of the XXth Century. 

I repeat with emphasis what I declared more than two decades ago: no 
telling defence of Mme Blavatsky could ever have been made without 
the help of Mme Coulomb's pamphlet of November 1884, nor if lacking 
Dr Richard Hodgson's Report of l885! And we may be sure that if this 
Movement had at once assumed a monolithic character behind a tranquil
facade, the public record and its prospects for the truth-seeking 
historian today would be only whatever bland recital of self-
glorification that monolith's own lackey-historians would have
wanted it to be - 'canned history' impenetrable from without and free 
of the spur of informed criticism. 

(Even now, I myself have been summarily denied-by two of the three 
major worldcenters of organized theosophy - access to printed 
documents privately issued almost one-hundred years ago!) 

Instead, original and essential documentation has survived (and even 
when, at one most critical juncture, a 'communication from the 
Masters' was received 'ordering' some of it to be destroyed!), and, 
to a great degree, is spread before the world of this and future 
generations in a manner no censor could supress, resulting in 
something almost unprecedented in "the history of religions"!
==========================================================
Walter A. Carrithers., Jr.

Food for thought....

Daniel
http://hpb.cc