Still LCC & Adyar Masonry
Nov 06, 2006 08:20 AM
by carlosaveline
Carl,
1) I put a sense of Justice and of Respect for the Facts well above my personal "thinking habits" ( popularly called "opinions") . For that, I think I have been able to learn a couple of things in the few decades.
2) I know about the Masonic crisis, LCC difficulties, etc. That does not erase the historical structure. We are still before "Leabeater's Ritualistc Structure" as to the Adyar movement. Although there is a growth of Krishnamutian views, the crisis is partial and the Leadbeaterian Theosophical Church is on, and slandering HPB in order to avoid, or to postpone, the collective re-discovery of real Theosophy. "John Algeo is not alone in that".
3) As to Radha and ritualisms, it is a well-known fact.
4) The presence or absence of any leader is no guarantee of anything and I wish a long life and good health to all beings, including Ms. Radha, whom I consider a basically sincere human being and a kind heart.
Carlos.
De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Cópia:
Data:Mon, 06 Nov 2006 14:26:37 -0000
Assunto:Theos-World Re: Carl, LCC & Adyar Masonry
> Carlos,
>
> I'm not at al "sympathetic towards the LCC and "Theosophical"
> Masonry". I am very much critical. But facts, is facts. I don't
> defend them, but one must correct.
>
> But I want to clearly separate the traditional Co-Masonic works;
> from the leadbeaterian "masonry" (what you called "Theosophical"
> Masonry).
>
> 1) The connection between LCC and Adyar TS is not what it was. They
> are totally separated groups today, and the LCC are spitted up in
> several different groups.
> 2) The link is to Algeo's homemade (illegal and irregular) Co-
> Masonic order, and none of the real Co-Masons. They don't like CWL
> at al.
> 3) And on Radha. I don't really know were she belongs or not (maybe
> in the (not so golden) "middle path"), but I think that Adyar TS
> can't go back in to the Theosophical "track", before she is gone.
>
> Carl
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline"
> wrote:
> >
> > Carl,
> >
> > For someone who does not adheres to CWL, you are showing yourself
> as rather sympathetic towards the LCC and "Theosophical" Masonry.
> I have no problem with that, but I try to see facts.
> >
> > The main point, in order not to have to discuss "real estate
> matters", is that:
> >
> > 1) LCC and Masonry are exceedingly 'influential' over the Adyar
> TS, and they, especially Masonry, play the role of "occult division"
> to the wide detriment of the ES. The ES is commited to the TS, not
> so Masonry, which is committed but to itself and to the
> Leadbeaterian/ritualistic view of things.
> >
> >
> > 2) The most active and agressive Leadbeaterian Adyar TS members,
> who have been consistently spreading rumours and slanders against
> HPB for many years, are almost all directly linked to the
> LCC/Masonry.
> >
> > 3) Although keeping a 'key role' in ritualisms, Ms. Radha does
> not belong to this priestlike, aggressive section of Adyar's
> neotheosophy. She respects HPB although she can't stop the
> ritualists from cowardly attacking Theosophy and HPB's work.
> >
> > Commentaries?
> >
> >
> > Regards, Carlos.
> >
> >
> > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Cópia:
> >
> > Data:Mon, 06 Nov 2006 02:51:15 -0000
> >
> > Assunto:Theos-World Re: To Konstantin on CWL & Adyar Masonry
> >
> > > Carlos wrote: "LCC and co-masonry do not have their own
> buildings,
> > > or ways to 'get' new people
> > > outside the TS. They have to use the TS buildings, and they
> > > generally 'feed'
> > > or vampirize the Adyar TS in many ways, besides being a powerful
> > > influence,
> > > though disguised, over its leaders. They use the Ts as a façade
> to
> > > get
> > > neophites -- and they take people away from the ES, too, since
> they
> > > offer
> > > "occult status" to people, and the ES has "much less
> possibilities"
> > > in that
> > > department of Vanity."
> > >
> > > That is not true! Maybe it is like that in Brazil, but I know
> for
> > > sure, and it is easy to prove, that that not is the case in
> Europe
> > > and Australia. The LCC and TS Adyar are totally separated. In
> some
> > > place, they are connected hence same people belongs to both
> > > organisations (like in Sydney), but far from every were. In
> Europe
> > > the LCC today in most places has their own church buildings, and
> a
> > > majority of the present LCC-bishops are not members of TS Adyar.
> In
> > > Scandinavia and Germany today, only one bishop of five is a
> member
> > > of TS Adyar. Here in Melbourne is only one active TS-Adyar
> member
> > > (of ca 300) also member of the LCC, but she has not been active
> in
> > > LCC for years. In Victoria are five LCC-priest (in different
> > > churches), and none of them are members of TS Adyar. One of them
> has
> > > been, but isn't that any longer.
> > >
> > > There is only one "division" within Co-masonry (one Grand Lodge
> in
> > > the US, and one in the UK) that are connected with TS Adyar,
> hence
> > > they are working after Leadbeater's version of A.A.S.R. The
> other Co-
> > > Masonic orders are not, and don't want to.
> > >
> > > Carl
> > >
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Konstantin,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the info and clarifications.
> > > >
> > > > By the end of your helpful message, you say:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "I understand the purpose of LCC and co-masonry as to
> theosophize
> > > > masonry, not to masonize or catholocize theosophy."
> > > >
> > > > Not at all, Konstantin. I have seen that in Brazil, in Adyar,
> in
> > > the USA -- and have definite news about that from other
> countries,
> > > as the UK, Netherlands, Australia, and so on. You can check it
> > > yourself.
> > > >
> > > > LCC and co-masonry do not have their own buildings, or ways
> > > to 'get' new people outside the TS. They have to use the TS
> > > buildings, and they generally 'feed' or vampirize the Adyar TS
> in
> > > many ways, besides being a powerful influence, though disguised,
> > > over its leaders. They use the Ts as a façade to get neophites --
>
> > > and they take people away from the ES, too, since they
> offer "occult
> > > status" to people, and the ES has "much less possibilities" in
> that
> > > department of Vanity.
> > > >
> > > > It has been so that TS leaders, national and
> international, "have"
> > > to be masons. A 'political need' to get to power. But masons 'do
> > > not have' to be fellows of the Adyar TS.
> > > >
> > > > And this structure was created by Leadbeater, mainly to defend
> > > himself from the short term karmic consequences of his
> > > pedophile 'love for boys' , id est, scandals. (Pedophile
> practices
> > > are crimes, as you know.)
> > > >
> > > > After Leabeater was rightfully expelled by Henry Olcott from
> the
> > > Adyar TS due to his repeated abuse of children, he had to wait
> less
> > > than a year for the death of Olcott -- and then he came back
> using
> > > various rituals as 'hidden political shields' against the
> > > consequences of his criminal actions.
> > > >
> > > > Then the 'esoteric popery' (as foreseen in the '1900 letter')
> was
> > > created.
> > > >
> > > > By the way: the '1900 letter' was received by A. Besant
> exactly
> > > seven years before 1907, when Leadbeater came back and started
> > > creating "theosophical" rituals. Seven years. A cycle.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards, Carlos.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > Cópia:
> > > >
> > > > Data:Sat, 04 Nov 2006 15:53:08 -0000
> > > >
> > > > Assunto:Theos-World Re: Konstantin and Russia
> > > >
> > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I would like to ask you a clarification about the meaning
> of
> > > your
> > > > > sentences below:
> > > > >
> > > > > "I think it will don't work, because at least certain
> leaders
> > > violate
> > > > > principles expressed by Leadbeater in no lesser degree than
> > > principles
> > > > > expressed by Blavatsky."
> > > > >
> > > > > I mean that those who impose worship and control obviously
> > > follow some
> > > > > their own principles, not the ideas of Leadbeater. They may
> use
> > > some
> > > > > his ideas for their purposes but disconnecting them from the
> > > context,
> > > > > it's exactly like some church leaders use some ideas from
> the
> > > Gospel
> > > > > for their selfish ends.
> > > > >
> > > > > Below are some quotations from CWL. Probably they are not
> the
> > > best, as
> > > > > these are the first I could find, nevertheless they reflect
> > > clearly
> > > > > his views on the authority of the theosophical leaders and
> > > freedom of
> > > > > thought:
> > > > >
> > > > > "I always said, "Don't believe anything just because I tell
> you,
> > > > > because I am liable to make mistakes just as any human being
> > > > > can." ...
> > > > > That is only my personal testimony in the matter, and I
> should
> > > > > not wish that any human being should base his convictions on
> > > > > that. He may take it; if he will, as evidence, but it is not
> > > > > proof; and he must remember that...
> > > > >
> > > > > "The attainment of mental freedom was a necessary step in
> the
> > > process
> > > > > of human evolution"
> > > > >
> > > > > "It therefore becomes the duty of every student of occultism
> to
> > > > > examine carefully the religious belief of his country and his
> > > > > period, in order that he may decide for himself what of it is
> > > > > based upon reason and what is merely a superstitious
> accretion.
> > > > > Most men never make any such effort..."
> > > > >
> > > > > Can we say that those leaders who are accused
> > > in "leadbeaterianism"
> > > > > follow these principles?
> > > > >
> > > > > > Are the LCC or the 'Theosophical Masonry' active there?
> > > > >
> > > > > None of them.
> > > > > After all, rites play their role. Once a young man who
> formerly
> > > was a
> > > > > Satanist, came to our meetins. He disappointed in the
> Satanism,
> > > but
> > > > > our talks didn't satisfy him. It happened so that I gave a
> talk
> > > about
> > > > > freemasonry. He became deeply interested in it, and wanted
> to
> > > join the
> > > > > freemasons, where he was redirected to. I don't know whether
> he
> > > was
> > > > > accepted, as I am not a freemason myself; yet I think it
> would
> > > be
> > > > > better to direct him to the co-masonic lodge where masonry
> is
> > > > > connected with a bit of theosophy, but unfortunately we have
> no
> > > such
> > > > > lodges in Russia.
> > > > >
> > > > > I understand the purpose of LCC and co-masonry as to
> theosophize
> > > > > masonery, not to masonize or catholocize theosophy.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> > >
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