Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt00294)

Carl,


You say: 

" I can see that you are not a Mason, and therefore you have a good 
 reason to not know real Meaning of Freemasonry."

I say:

"I am not.  But about it I know for a fact more than I feel at ease to write about in Theos-talk; so please do not jump to final conclusions."

You say: 

"I know HPB said that Freemasonry was infiltrated by the Jesuits, but this has nothing to do with the Vatican, hence the Vatican and Jesuits often don't like one another." 

I say:

"Not true.  The Jesuits have almost  always been most influential (and 'loyal') as to the Popes.  They have worked as the Popes'  CIA or 'M.I. 5', say.   HPB wrote about that. Anyway, the true fact remains that the Masonry has been utterly infiltrated by its enemies;  and by HPB's enemies;  although individual Masons, including some influential ones, were real Occultists amid the bad stuff; id est,  the exception to the rule. "

As to living in a "Catholic" country -- again this is jumping and personalizing conclusions.  

In order to illustrate that, I will tell you that I was never baptized in any Church, Christian or otherwise, in this lifetime, which is more than many people can say about their ' original non-churchianity'.  And never believed in any Christian "God", too. 

Try to think impersonally, please. Personalistic projections end up by making the game of you-know-whom (lower level elementals) . 

I see you as a sincere truth-seeker and I respect you for that. 

We are exchanging views.  Neither of us is the truth-owner, I guess, on any subject. We are searching for a better understanding of life. 


Carlos.  









De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Sat, 04 Nov 2006 16:36:12 -0000

Assunto:Theos-World Re: CEREMONIALISM and HPB

> Carlos,
> 
> I can see that you are not a Mason, and therefore you have a good 
> reason to not know real Meaning of Freemasonry.
> 
> Second, please, stop talk about Leadbeater in these matters. He has 
> nothing to do in a serious discussion. 
> 
> And further. You writ; "the Masonry was so heavily and
> freely infiltrated by the Vatican Jesuits centuries ago, as you 
> certainly know
> HPB says." I know she said that Freemasonry infiltrated by the 
> Jesuits, but this has nothing to do with the Vatican, hence the 
> Vatican and Jesuits often don't like one another. To say "heavily 
> and freely" is to over react. There is only one know "Jesuit" (he 
> was not even a real Jesuit, but something similar to a tertiary 
> member, even if SJ don't have that officially), that have made a 
> carrier in Masonry, and that was Magister Johann August Starck, 
> active mason ca. 1750-70. This connection Jesuits ? Freemason is 
> untrue, as the Nazis Freemasons ? Jews is untrue. That is al based, 
> and with its routs, in Anti-Masonry (from low-church protestants, in 
> the US). 
> 
> Carlos, I think you are mixing things up. This could be hence you 
> are from a Catholic country, but no I'm only guessing. Ritual and 
> ritual is not always the same thing.
> 
> You wrote; "Jesus, Buddha and Lao Tzu -- 2,500 years ago -- were 
> already critical of their time ritualisms and sacerdotal 
> hierarchies. So this thing is not 'entirely new'." On this is my 
> comment that one find, what one is looking for.
> 
> And: "Still, I did not see HPB writing about ritualism, or defending 
> it as a practice
> for theosophists. Did you?" And still she wrote several rituals here 
> self, fore the use in the ES, and let Olcott write rituals for TS. 
> 
> And: "I am generally friendly toward Masons, but I do not think 
> there should be any
> confusion between the theosophical movement and any Rites and 
> Ritualisms,
> masonic or otherwise.
> 
> These are two quite different movements..." 
> 
> As said above about to know real Meaning of Freemasonry. They are 
> not as different as you may think (in Spirit). And I don't share 
> your opinion on nether rituals, or your opinion on what Theosophy is 
> saying about it. The problem is that Masonry, as HBP said, soulless 
> without the Philosophy of the East, but still it the last reaming 
> part of the Western Mystery Schools. One most see masonry as it 
> really is, and what is it origin. And very, very few Masons know 
> this today. (And the second thing is that the church (and more the 
> protestant, then the catholic) partly has done great harm on 
> Freemasonry.) This got very clear for me, with the help of 
> Theosophy. Freemasonry has no occult secrets any more, but still 
> some secrets, those one find in every true Brothers heart. And the 
> Freemasons are the Guardians of a Tradition, the Western Initiatoric 
> Tradition of the ancient Mystery School. 
> 
> And, Carlos, don forget. That to study Western Freemasonry is 
> obligatory for every student in a Mystery School in the East, and 
> for every Chela.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Carl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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