Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt00030)

Carl,

We still have not built any perfect organizations; and theosophical groups have the uncomfortable habit of being the result of human efforts. 

It will come to a surprise to some that the ULT, the Pasadena TS and the Point Loma groups are human and therefore imperfect groups, as many independent workers around the world.  I am sure you are human too. 

Yet we can choose between adding to the sum total of gossip, or trying  to use our critical perception of things in a way that preserves the sense of unity of all those who care for HPB's  and the Masters'  Philosophy. 

I can assure you that no one who is serious in the ULT has ever claimed about "apostolic succesion".  Anything contrary to that is disinformation. 

I still have had nothing but rumours --  and most vague, though repeated --so far. 

ULT people have in  fact denounced claims of succession since its first moments . Now --  it has worked along the HPB/Judge lines, no doubt, and the fruits of its efforts are available to be seen and judged. One who want to criticize the ULT will SAY that it "claims" this or that, etc.  ULT's modest and small but real actions, though, speak more than any words could. 

I have nothing to say of a negative kind as to the Pasadena TS. And I have many positive things to say about Pasadena TS. 

The fundamental things are all held in common by  those who study HPB & the Masters,  and who do not go to L.C.C. Masses, or to Pseudo-masonic meetings, and who do not believe C. W. Leadbeater and A. Besant were  true clairvoyants and Initiates...  :)  

 

Regards,   Carlos. 



De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Wed, 01 Nov 2006 14:27:42 -0000

Assunto:Theos-World Re: To Carl on "Successors"

> Not successor to HBP, but successor of Judge as head of the "Third 
> Section" (the exoteric society). What or if he was claimed to be an 
> agent of the Masters, I do not know. Same are saying that, as you 
> very well know, and even ULT-associates are doing this (se the 
> introduction of the Yahoo group "Theosophia"). And others are 
> denying this. I think, as other has said here. We will not know the 
> truth before the Theosophy Company in Los Angeles opens its 
> archives. Even leading members of other ULT-lodges (then Los 
> Angeles), has problems with access to this archive. I am not, in any 
> way criticizing Crosbie. His writhing has been in my one study, of 
> in great value, and still very much is. I may be critical to the ULT 
> (as an organisation) on same ways as it is today, but that has not 
> anything to do with Crosbie, or his work. 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Carl
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> wrote:
> >
> > Carl,
> > 
> > I still don't see any real source as to Robert Crosbie's supposed 
> claims to be a successor of HPB's. On the contrary, he has written 
> against the very idea of successorship. Can you materialialize any 
> real source to that rumour? Or is it something which was said by 
> people who wanted to criticize the ULT or Crosbie? 
> > 
> > I tend to be this is fiction. We have to constantly re-examine 
> our sources... 
> > 
> > 
> > Regards, Carlos. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > Cópia:
> > 
> > Data:Wed, 01 Nov 2006 01:27:47 -0000
> > 
> > Assunto:Theos-World Re: â??Successorsâ??!?
> > 
> > > Chuck!
> > > 
> > > I didn't say anything about that "personalities" should matter. 
> For 
> > > me, the question about succeeding is stupid, hence I can't see 
> that 
> > > anyone could succeed nether Blavatsky, nor Judge, in occult 
> matters 
> > > as Teachers (in till the next Messenger from the Lodge, of 
> curse). 
> > > As Leader/President of the T.S. is it something else. My point 
> was 
> > > as I wrote; "which was faithful, to the real and true impulse of 
> the 
> > > Masters after W.Q.J. past away, and followed the True 
> Theosophical 
> > > Path", instead of only discus on what his or hers claims was 
> based 
> > > on (right or wrong). In other words, where do we find or found 
> this 
> > > after W.Q.J. death. Which Theosophical group/succeeder 
> as "leader" 
> > > (I don't mean this in a Pasadena terminological way) was 
> actually 
> > > true to the Holy Cause? Mrs. Tingley, Mr. Crosbie and Mr. 
> Hargrove 
> > > were al, more or less, claiming to succeed Mr. Judge in some 
> way. 
> > > Mrs. Tingley claimed to be it occult (as Teacher), and Mr. 
> Crosbie 
> > > and Mr. Hargrove to be the "visible head" of the true Third 
> Section 
> > > (and Second Section in Crosbie's case also, if Mr. Hargrove hade 
> any 
> > > claims in this matter I do not know for sure) and the/an agent 
> of 
> > > the Master.
> > > 
> > > We need Theosophical organizations, in some way for many 
> reasons. 
> > > Then, as well as today. And we need Theosophical organizations 
> which 
> > > are faithful to the real and true impulse of the Masters (the 
> Cause, 
> > > the Doctrines and Teachings and so on), and who follows the True 
> > > Theosophical Path.
> > > 
> > > And Chuck! You are on this "mailing list" also, so that most 
> include 
> > > you to!? 
> > > 
> > > Carl
> > > 
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Drpsionic@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > In a message dated 10/31/2006 4:14:59 AM Central Standard 
> Time, 
> > > > carl.ek@ writes:
> > > > 
> > > > Do any serious Theosophist or Student of Theosophy really 
> thinks 
> > > that 
> > > > anyone could, what so ever, succeed Blavatsky or Judge? Isn't 
> the 
> > > > question, which was faithful, to the real and true impulse of 
> the 
> > > > Masters after W.Q.J. past away, and followed the True 
> > > Theosophical 
> > > > Path? So was it Mrs. Tingley or Mr. Crosbie, or even Mr. 
> > > Hargrove? 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I don't see why it would even matter. Theosophy is not about 
> the 
> > > > personalities but about the ideas.
> > > > 
> > > > Other than the folks on these mailing lists, no one cares.
> > > > 
> > > > Chuck the Heretic
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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