Theos-Talk Archives (October 2006 Message tt00315)

All the theosophist has to ask himself when wondering if any thing 
anyone else does is ok or not is, "Do I have the right to judge my 
fellow human beings?" And the answer is NO.

Adelasie

On 23 Oct 2006 at 10:56, Rodolfo Don wrote:

> A common sense response to a Very Queer Opinion
> 
> It has been determined that homosexuals are born with the  
> predisposition to that sexual orientation. I myself was born that  
> way, and I remember when I was in kindergarten I knew what my  
> preferences were. Being homophobic goes against Universal  
> Brotherhood, just like denying to them every human right that  
> heterosexuals enjoy. Pretend that homosexuals should hide their own  
> nature goes against Truth that should be honored by every  
> Theosophist. Truth in thought, action and truth to himself or herself.
> 
> And about the comment that homosexuals that don't rise above their  
> own nature (?) have their own higher two principles paralized, I have  
> to disappoint you because all my seven principles are functioning  
> very well. I am laughing about your retrograde thinking. Look at the  
> rest of the world and see all the changes that have taken place in  
> just a few years few. Only religion with its prejudices and bigotry  
> is holding more changes particularly in very religious countries like  
> the Muslim countries and Poland and our own country, U.S.A.
> 
> Why do you mention that the Dalai Lama is against "oral sex" in your  
> diatribe against gays? Do you mean that oral sex is not practiced by  
> heterosexuals? You can't be serious!
> 
> Do you know what I think about your little piece of writing below. It  
> is promoting hatred and intolerance in a Theosophical list.
> 
> Rodolfo Don
> 
> On Oct 23, 2006, at 9:05 AM, Mark Jaqua wrote:
> 
> > A Personal Opinion on a Very Queer Question
> >
> > I've been wanting to write something on this
> > for a while, so think I will do so. It could be
> > called "esoteric," I think. So, if you aren't
> > "esoteric," don't worry about it.
> >
> > Nobody writes about homosexuals in relation
> > to theosophy, because it is far too dangerous
> > to do so, Homosexuals being a very large
> > "vested interest." Does Theosophy have any
> > specific teachings in regard to them? No.
> > Nothing is said anywhere in the primary literature.
> > It is "2 Lo 2 go," and brings elevated concepts
> > down into the muck of lower life - so this
> > Post is personal opinion. Buddhism has a
> > precept agains "improper sexual action," and
> > the Dalai Lama condemned oral sex in an "Out"
> > magazine interview (Feb-March, 1994) It is
> > an important issue, and affects the whole
> > movement, mostly at its more esoteric level
> > - which where the real life of the Theosophical
> > Movement comes from. Throughout original
> > Theosophical literature there is the undercurrent
> > of the necessity of living a clean and moral
> > life. In the 19th century any reference to
> > morality and homosexuals was unnecessary, for
> > one thing, as it was common accepted truth
> > that it was immoral. Today that is not the
> > case and the gay lifestyle and politics is almost
> > a religion. The militant gay holds his gay
> > status more important than religion, politics
> > or anything else (certainly more important
> > than Theosophy!) The question could be ignored
> > in the 19th century, but can it today?
> >
> > Why is this all important to Theosophy?
> > In my opinion because: (1) any group that
> > has a significant number of openly homosexuals
> > in it is DONE FOR, as far as the genuine
> > normal population being attracted. (I remember
> > the Buddhist event I went too, with the two
> > gay guys greeting each other with squeals,
> > and hugs.) (2) The homosexual, unless he
> > can rise above or indifferent to it, has
> > his two higher principles paralyzed. It is
> > incompatible with any type of Theosophical
> > "Inner Group." The probationary chela "Fern"
> > in the MLs is said to have had his two higher
> > principles paralyzed - from Jesuit training
> > when he was young. (MLs, p. 330, TUP) It's
> > the same thing, but from a different source.
> > Lower manas has to be open to higher manas
> > and buddhi, and this requires generally a basic
> > purity in lower manas and the lower self, and
> > in sex matters this means celibacy or heterosexuality
> > -
> > which are in tune with healthy human psychology
> > and Mother Nature, homosexuality is not. (3)
> > I think possibly one could say that homosexuals
> > have Wrecked the whole theosophical movment.
> > It might be possibly to breakdown the major
> > splits in Theosophical groups of the gays
> > vs. the straights, and the types of philosophies
> > they are inclined to accept. One can certainly
> > find a basis for this in Leadbeater-based
> > Neo-Theosophy at Adyar VS. Original Theosophy
> > at ULT and Point Loma. (Tingley was very
> > anti-homosexual, and Leadbeater and Wedgewood,
> > et. al. and their Liberal Catholic Church,
> > masonry and sex-teachings were homosexuals
> > and sympathizers.)
> >
> > I remember reading an account
> > somewhere that Blavatsky had a deprecatory
> > nick-name for Leadbeater in reference to
> > his homosexuality (or pedophilia) - but can't
> > find the source. Purucker refered to homosexuals
> > somewhere, I believe, as an abnormality or
> > something to be pitied, sometimes an
> > evolutionary throw-back.
> >
> > I joined an esoteric group about 30
> > years ago, and the Teacher's idea was that
> > the only way to go if one was really Serious,
> > was to be celibate. This isn't easy, wrecked
> > life with the girlfriend, and set me to mulling
> > occassionally over the whole sex-question for
> > the last 30+ years. The results of which I
> > think I got a lot of answers, some answers I
> > have to think were "shown" to me in one way
> > or another, because I don't see how I could
> > come up with the answers on my own. Some
> > general observations follow.
> >
> > How does a person become a homosexual?
> > Is it something they are born with? I
> > think at least half are born with the skandas
> > or karmic tendency, which is something they
> > can't help. Where does this come from? Its
> > the karmic result of previous degeneracy,
> > for one source, I think. The hedonist becomes
> > jaded and looks for more and more extremes
> > for kicks. Just normal sex doesn't work
> > anymore and they fool their minds and experiment
> > more and more. Several hollywood stars come
> > to mind - who could have any woman or man
> > they wanted - but became homosexuals. Also,
> > people have all and any type of thoughts,
> > at least occassionally, and if in unhealthy
> > passivity. Naive persons who have an occassional
> > queer thought, become obesessed with the idea
> > that they are queer, when it should just be
> > ignored or forced out. People also get
> > obssessed. A male obsessed with a female
> > bhut (dead "shell" of someone who died early),
> > can become or urged by it to become queer,
> > and vice-versa. I know one case, I think,
> > of a young woman whose drug-addicted father
> > died, and then she became queer. What modern
> > psychologist would even consider such a thing!
> > Personally, I believe there is no such thing
> > in nature as a homosexual, but only arising
> > from various human-imposed causes.
> >
> > Purucker says somewhere that the more
> > one is attracted to the opposite sex (and
> > acts on it), the more he becomes like the
> > opposite sex. This is how it is determined
> > if one is reincarnated as a male or female.
> > The hedonist gradually becomes like the
> > opposite sex, so the most "manly" or "womanly"
> > person is the celibate. If one gradually,
> > even in a normal lifestyle becomes and
> > reincarnates as the opposite sex, then there
> > must be a certain sort of "neutral point"
> > that is reached, and a person is born in a
> > male or female body, but is actually under-sexed
> > and "neutral" about sex more than most persons.
> > This could be a blessing, but the more asexual
> > person - especially nowdays - is convinced
> > by various propaganda that he is actually
> > homo-sexual instead of moreso neutral-sexual.
> > (You Have to be a sex-machine one way or
> > another! says modern psychology and media!)
> > How may young confused people who don't know
> > what to do with all the errant thoughts
> > put in their heads (put there by gay propaganda)
> > are convinced they are "gay" and Ruin their
> > whole lives - when they might have lived a
> > relatively normal life otherwise and even
> > cured themselves!! Believing the Politically
> > Correct propaganda that being a homosexual
> > is "just another healthy choice" - how many
> > 100,000 young people have irrevocably entered
> > a lifestyle in which they are innerly-tortued
> > for life, many committing suicide directly
> > or in other ways???
> >
> > In the world in general the homosexuals
> > are a "vested interest." Speak out in a
> > significant way about the suicidal immorality
> > of Society endorsing homosexual lifestyle, and
> > see what happens to you. A lot are
> > intelligent people, and a middle-class phenomenom,
> > and "gays" work together as interest groups.
> > They permeate the social-work system, the
> > medical system, and the police departments.
> > (Try being helpless in a hospital, when the
> > "gay-network" there of a couple hundred finds
> > out that you are a loathe-some "homo-phob."
> > [or "homo-disgusto"]) People become irrational
> > when a "hot-spot" is poked. We all have them.
> > Some psychological complex where we are
> > vulnerable and out of harmony with ourselves
> > and nature, and when it is "poked" we feel
> > raped. "Passion-crimes" are committed when
> > people's hot-spots get poked.
> >
> > So, is this a call for a pogrom
> > on homosexuals. No, of course not. Most are
> > decent people, and try to be so (excepting
> > the prison-types.) There is nothing in Theosophy
> > or Buddhism that says sick people can't join,
> > as long as they don't wreck things. 'And we
> > are most ALL sick in one form or another.
> > One's open-mindedness and compassion is used
> > against oneself and theosophy, as often as
> > for it. But we are in the truth business
> > - not self-destructive make-believe for the
> > sake of social harmony, or social consequences
> > of knowing the real truth - for ourselves
> > at least.
> >
> > - jake j.
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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> >
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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