Theos-Talk Archives (June 2006 Message tt00391)

Lenny,

Thanks for all those interesting and
informative thoughts and ideas. While reading
them I suddenly remembered another item that,
once again, I could be dead wrong about, but I
THINK, I ONLY THINK, that I read somewhere in
the theosophical teachings many years ago, and
that is, said in my own way of course, that any
one of the very highest adepts or Masters of
Wisdom could destroy the whole world, but,
because of their high moral character, would
not do such a thing -- and that such a
tremendous dynamic power, if it got into the
wrong hands, is why a lot of things within the
teachings cannot be given out to the general
public.

In case you don't remember reading anything
about this subject also, maybe someone who has,
if it is even something that is written
somewhere within the mass of theosophical
teachings, could point us to it.

Once again, thanks in advance.

Take care,

John DeSantis
(Compiler)
-------

These are the 3 Index pages on my Theosophical
web site -- which contains 1,488 articles from
THEOSOPHY magazine:
http://www.wisdomworld.org
http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting.html
http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html

This is "A place for Theosophists to work
together to create a Movie about JESUS":
http://www.quicktopic.com/37/H/xXY4ny4eB6v/p-1.-1

And this is the link to what I very personally
consider my "UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD"
project for all of humanity -- one that I have
envisioned myself for the last 26 years and
am trying hard to get going:
http://www.PublicAndPrivateEnterprise.org
-------

leonmaurer@aol.com wrote:

> John,
>
> I don't think I can say much about what you
> are asking about -- since I have
> no recollection of reading about the psychic
> power you are referring to. I
> also can't verify what an adept can or cannot
> do in speeding up natural
> processes, as I have no direct evidence that
> any of that might be possible.
>
> Since, as you agree that there are NO
> supernatural miracles, magical or
> otherwise -- in order for an adept to do such
> a thing, there would have to be some
> sort of lawful coenergetic process that could
> accelerate a natural process.
>
> Of course increasing the rates of chemical
> reactions actually are possible --
> simply by adding heat to any chemical
> mixture. In that case, if an adept
> can use the mind and will to focus heat
> energy on a chemical reaction, it would
> naturally speed it up. But, to make it occur
> instantaneously would probably
> require impossible levels of heat energy --
> which, if it could be done, would
> instantly destroy the chemicals themselves --
> if not also the magician. :-)
>
> There is some evidence that adepts may be
> able to do this heating, to a
> limited degree, however... Since, it has been
> reported that meditating monks in
> Tibet could sit almost naked in the cold of
> the high mountains and after a time
> clear a circle of melted snow up to a few
> dozen feet around their bodies.
> This Siddhi is called Tummo, and is one of
> the powers spoken of by Patanjali...
> Although, this melting effect might occur
> only because the meditator can
> increase the inner heat radiated from their
> own bodies. However, whether internal
> or external, any movement of atoms or
> molecules can be translated into heat.
> Therefore, Tummo probably depends on being
> able to increase the vibrational
> motion of minute particles -- which I
> inferred below was possible when I
> mentioned the possibility of psychic driven
> precipitation, teleportation,
> levitation, etc.
>
> Thus, the speeding up of a chemical reaction
> might depend on one's ability to
> increase the rate of vibration on a
> molecular, atomic or quantum level. In
> accord with the ABC theory, this effect may
> be possible because of the
> proximity of the atoms in chemical molecules
> to the zero-point fields in the vacuum
> space between them -- where their physical
> fields are in close proximity with
> the quantum particles along with the astral
> and mental field's centers of
> consciousness that link awareness with the
> power of will to control the force of
> the zero-point spinergy. This force, then,
> when properly directed, can be used
> to increase the rates of vibration of the
> physical atoms and their valence
> electrons and thus, raise the temperature of
> a targeted chemical reaction so as
> to speed it up.
>
> However, I doubt that such a process could in
> any way transmute water into
> wine instantaneously. Although any adept,
> skilled in the powers of mesmerism
> or hypnotism, could easily "glamorize" anyone
> into thinking that the plain
> water he gives them to drink tastes like
> wine. But why would anyone waste
> psychic energy to do that -- unless he was a
> fakir trying to convince people of his
> so called miraculous powers. I doubt that the
> Biblical Jesus who supposedly
> gave the Sermon on the Mount, if he existed,
> would have stooped to that level.
> But, then, that Biblical figure supposedly
> did change water to wine at a
> marriage feast in Cana (John 2:1-11). But, I
> think the story was made up by
> the editors of the gospels to "prove" another
> miracle of their mythical Jesus.
>
> Learning how to correlate and concentrate
> those forces by an act of will, can
> be gotten only through long practice of Rajah
> Yoga, along with direct
> teaching by a master instructor who knows the
> secret of using the will to correlate
> the forces, as well as how to focus them, and
> apply their effects in a
> controlled manner on the physical level. But,
> using such power is quite dangerous,
> since it requires, for the white magician,
> the draining of one's own vital
> energies. The black magicians, on the other
> hand, having no conscience, can
> vampirize such energies from those around
> them.
>
> In any event, I think it wise to follow
> Patanjali's advice that even when
> one, through such yoga practices learns to
> use the psychic powers, the true stud
> ent desiring enlightenment for its own sake,
> and cognizant of the dangers of
> becoming attached to those siddhis, will
> forsake their use, and proceed on to
> the higher levels of pure awareness or
> isolation (emancipation) in the spirit.
>
> Hope that covers it.
>
> Lenny
>
> In a message dated 6/25/06 9:24:12 AM,
> compiler@wisdomworld.org writes:
>
> > Lenny, based on all that you said below,
> could you maybe continue on and
> > explain some of those things, as well as
> maybe some other things,
> > related to this particular idea that I
> THINK I remember reading about
> > years ago somewhere within the mass of
> theosophical literature -- and
> > that is that, and if I even remember this
> more or less correctly, and so
> > only said here in my own way, that when it
> comes to the ideas of "magic"
> > or "miracles", if not also some other
> so-called powers that an adept can
> > do, there is NO magic or miracle involved
> as people generally think
> > about them, but that the adept is only
> capable of speeding up the
> > natural processes in some way of whatever
> he makes appear or come into
> > or go out of existence quickly.
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > John DeSantis
> > (Compiler)
> > http://www.wisdomworld.org
> > http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting.html
> > http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html
>
> > -------
> > http://www.PublicAndPrivateEnterprise.org
> > -------
> >
> > leonmaurer@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > > You're welcome Cass. But, I still say
> there are no miracles... Even those
> > > supposedly carried out by alleged Magi's
> by their mostly imagined
> > > psychic manipulation of matter.
> > >
> > > As far as I understand it -- given the
> possibility in a limited sense that
> > > matter can be manipulated by mind (at
> least in moving its smaller
> > molecular
> > > forms from one place to another such as
> precipitation, levitation or
> > > teleportation) -- the chemical changing
> of "water into wine," as inferred
> > > by that statement in the Bible, is not
> quite that easy. Therefore, the
> > statement
> > > was most likely a metaphor referring to
> the teachings of the sermon on the
> > > mount... That used simple words to
> instill in the listeners the rapture of
> > instantly
> > > understanding the meaning of the
> spiritual truths supposedly expounded by
> > the
> > > mythical Jesus. Thus, the metaphor would
> imply that the plain truth, when
> > fully
> > > ingested and digested in the mind,
> induces an analogous pleasure as if the
> >
> > > water one is drinking were suddenly
> turned into an intoxicating wine.
> > >
> > > As HPB constantly reiterated in her
> discussions of such psychic phenomena
> > > (which she spoke of as, "Glamour") -- we
> should dispassionately judge
> > > all acts of supposed magic from a
> theosophical scientific and metaphysical
> > point
> > > of view. Therefore, its obvious that the
> only way real (physical) water
> > can be
> > > turned into wine is through the chemical
> process of fermentation of the
> > fruit
> > > sugar dissolved in the water that
> composes over 90% of the fruit itself.
> > >
> > > To do that complex transformation (that
> must take considerable time and
> > > require specific substances in proper
> combination and circumstances)
> > > in an instant of willful thought -- no
> matter how adept the Magi in his
> > > knowledge of the correlation of occult
> forces -- would be, as HPB said,
> > like
> > > passing the human body physically through
> a brick wall... That she also
> > said
> > > was impossible.
> > >
> > > So, it's wrong to conflate or confuse
> "elementals" with the physical or
> > > chemical "elements." As theosophy sees
> it, they have nothing whatever
> > > to do with each other. Elementals do not
> control the natural processes of
> > lawful
> > > physical chemical composition and
> decomposition. Nor can they overcome
> > > the natural attraction between molecules
> that hold together human bodies
> > > or brick walls, and prevent them from
> passing through each other.
> > >
> > > So, according to a theosophical
> metaphysical understanding, "Beam me
> > > up Scotty" was never more than a science
> fictional fantasy that could
> > > never be realized in real physical life
> on Earth or in space. (Although, I
> > > don't doubt that one's individual self,
> linked to the spirit, can easily
> > travel
> > > wherever the mind and will directs it
> to.) In fact the concept of the
> > fictional
> > > "transporter" actually assumes, wrongly,
> that the higher spiritual
> > > consciousness is dependently linked to
> the assembled molecules of the
> > > physical body -- which theosophy denies.
> > >
> > > However, there's no denying that the
> astral body can travel where it
> > > wills, and can even manifest itself as
> being real to a properly tuned in
> > or
> > > "glamorized" observer. On another tack,
> even the Star Trek concept itself
> >
> > > is flawed... since, according to
> theosophy, human beings could never
> > > physically travel beyond the Solar System
> -- as their inner source of
> > psychic,
> > > as well as chi, prana or vital energy, is
> immutably linked to the Sun's
> > energies.
> > > Wouldn't that also make it impossible
> that we could ever meet intelligent
> > beings
> > > from another solar system (let alone
> another galaxy) in the flesh?
> > >
> > > In another sense, BTW, the metaphor of
> turning water into wine also
> > implies
> > > that each of us can determine our own
> response to our experiences within
> > our
> > > own mind and consciousness. Thus, when
> one is thirsty for knowledge, its
> > > attainment can engender in us the same
> rapture that a man dying of
> > > thirst can experience with his first sip
> of water when he experiences its
> > taste
> > > with the same pleasure as if it were the
> finest wine.
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > >
> > > Lenny
> >
> (snip)
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
> 


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